In the Monolingual thread the method of "shadowing" has been mentioned several times, as well as in other threads on this forum. It sounds like a great way to improve ones pronunciation and fluency in a foreign language; so I searched a bit on this forum and in the forum leosmith linked to, to get a better idea about how this works.

Here is a summary of the posts I found on this forum about this method or with what material the method was used.

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=1174&page=2
watashimo wrote:
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"Shadowing" is a technique where you listen to a text in a foreign language while speaking along (kind of echoing). This sounded like a good follow-up to the Pimsleur lessons.
I learnt most of my Japanese from Assimil Japanese I and II. Both books have around 100 short lessons. Every lesson is written in normal Japanese with Furigana (first few lessons romaji), a German translation and a literal translation. The lessons are fairly short, so it's easy to figure out the meaning of the Japanese text even without grammar explanations. I would then spend the whole day shadowing the lessons while walking around, going to work or wherever. After I got used to it, I could shadow new lessons on the bicycle without even fully understanding what I was actually saying.
Some of the more difficult lessons took me days until I could shadow them easily. Even when there are grammar points that I didn't really understand I would continue to the next lesson after I managed to shadow the text. The grammar points would be repeated in later lessons, so I would shadow these problematic parts several times in different contexts. And then understand it somehow later on.

The books do have grammar explanations (every seventh lesson is a grammar lesson). I read the first few, but skipped later ones. I never actually finished the book. I did shadow to the end, but I only know the first 70 lessons by heart.

I did this for nearly seven or eight months before I dared to hold a real conversation in Japanese (I had a few Japanese friends back then, but avoided conversations in Japanese because didn't feel confident back then). This conversation was around five minutes and I just used Japanese.

Until this day I don't know about the different verb groups and conjugations. Whenever I need to conjugate a verb that I don't know, I would try to use the verb like in one of the sentences from Assimil (yes, I actually remember a lot of the phrases from Assimil). I still do make mistakes sometimes, but I can hold myself fairly well in an everyday conversation.
Vocabulary is still a problem though.

The other two main resources for my Japanese are Japanese TV-Dramas, where I learnt a lot of everyday Japanese words (I write down recurring words that I don't know) and Japanese with Manga. Japanese with Manga is good for informal Japanese, slang and such. Hm, that is kind of a grammar book. I never did any of the excercises, but I used the book to understand verb forms from films that I couldn't understand.

BTW, I haven't done that in a long time, but I used to rip the audio from films, TV-Dramas or animes for my mp3 player. I could use the audio for passive listening or shadowing.

One advantage with shadowing is that my Japanese accent is rather good. Probably not perfect, but I don't sound like one of these gaijins from Japanese films.

For a few months I did shadowing with Korean (another language that I want to study). When using these sentences with a friend's Korean friend she first couldn't believe that I've never been to Korea because of my accent.

So, with my limited experiences in foreign languages, I would say that Shadowing is a very efficient technique to practice speaking a foreign language.
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wrightak wrote:
I went to a Japanese language school in Tokyo where some of the teachers wrote a book on shadowing. You can find it here:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%B7%E3%83%...983&sr=8-5

I wrote all of the English translations in the book.



http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=375&page=2
leosmith wrote:
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If you read this whole thread (http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/for...PN=0&TPN=1)
he describes how he uses bilingual texts and shadowing.
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http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=57&page=2
laxxy wrote:
I think I tried it once, the guy managed to annoy me to death after a couple minutes, and their way of presenting things really didn't click either. I thought I might listen to it in a car, but it's not good even for that for me...
Check this though:
http://www.njuku.com/
It should work well with so called "shadowing" method, i.e. reading the text along with the voice on tape.

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=1040&page=2
vosmiura wrote:
While on vacation in Japan I picked up some books (with audio) that seemed useful.

シャドーイング 日本語を話そう

This book has about 500 short dialogues that start from very basic short sentences up to longer, JLPT2 level dialogues. They're all spoken in Japanese on the CD, and in the book you have the sentence + furigana, and English, Chinese and Korean translations. You're supposed to shadow read the dialogues to boost your fluency. I'm enjoying this.

英会話フレーズブック―リアルな日常表現2900

This book is intended for Japanese learning English, but it also seemed interesting for E->J. It has 2900 phrases with Japanese & English, with both J & E readings on 3 CDs. The sentences are realistic and interesting; they cover a lot of things I've never heard before. The Japanese on the CDs is spoken at rather high speed though.


http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=928
wzafran wrote:
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Amongst other things, this has also included my dabbling with 'Breaking Into Japanese Literature'. I find it to be a very helpful book, and one of excellent quality too. (I must mention that the inclusion of audio accompaniment, voiced by professionals, was a very good choice on their part.) The book has helped me with my reading and pronunciation greatly. (Thence this coming holiday I intend to complete and absorb all of the stories found in it. This will further improve my pronunciation (because I shadow the audio extensively) and also allow me to internalize the Japanese grammar structure.)

Indeed, it does feel nice to be able to read through Japanese text with some semblance of 'fluency' by now; so, having said that, I am compelled to spread my wings unto and get my feet wet in authentic Japanese literature.
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EDIT: fixed a link... and the one leosmith linked to...

Cool, thanks for this great posting.
I was just thinking to get into shadowing, so this posting is good timing!

Now after the "short" introduction, the questions I'd like to address.

I've tried to shadow parts of an audio book I'm listening to at the moment, but wasn't able to shadow even one single sentence. Now I'd like to get some advise by the people who have worked with "shadowing".
The book is not in Japanese (that will come after I've finished RTK1) but in French, and the 15min portion I choose had been reduced in tempo by 15%, so I could quite easily understand what was being said. I just listened 3 times to the audio without trying to shadow while walking to and from work, and tried to shadow the audio on the 4th time. Even though I tried I was only able to shadow one or two words, or the end of a sentence, when the pause to the next sentence was long enough.
So I wonder if it would be better to start the shadowing while reading along with the text in hand, rather than shadow while only listening and not reading along.

I also tried to shadow an English audio text, which I thought I knew by heart but it was as bad as the experiment with the French one. I'm not even sure I'd be able to shadow an audio in my mother tongue without the aid of a text.
It's obvious that shadowing is a skill that I have to develop, but at the moment it's more frustrating than rewarding...

You might want to have a look at how-to-learn-any-language forums, especially the posts by Ardaschir/ProfArguelles. He's a polyglot who posted a lot of useful content over there.

Edit: His first post about it was in this thread about Assimil.

I can understand how shadowing can improve one's pronunciation, but how can it really improve one's fluency? Especially if one is shadowing literature which probably isn't exactly very contemporary in nature. Any thoughts?

I agree, I think that your subject material isn't the best. You should be shadowing dialogues rather than literature.

Despite translating an entire book full of shadowing exercises, I've never been a big proponent of trying to say words simultaneously with the audio. I think it's a better exercise just to hear it, then mimic it afterwards.

wrightak Wrote:Despite translating an entire book full of shadowing exercises, I've never been a big proponent of trying to say words simultaneously with the audio. I think it's a better exercise just to hear it, then mimic it afterwards.

When you say 'simultaneously', is the aim to speak at exactly the same time as the speaker in the dialogue? At the moment I trail behind by (approximately) 3/4 of a second.

As for the efficacy of shadowing vs. repeating, I think both have their place. For example, repeating phrases (esp. long ones) should improve your listening abilities overall as if you're unpractised at this, you'll forget the beginning of the sentence by the time you get to the verb!

Shadowing, on the other hand, provides a better opportunity IMO to work on pronunciation and pace.

Biene Wrote:I've tried to shadow parts of an audio book I'm listening to at the moment, but wasn't able to shadow even one single sentence. Now I'd like to get some advise by the people who have worked with "shadowing".

You may want to try retranslating the portion of the text that you wish to shadow. After gaining a better understanding of the text you should be able to shadow pretty easily. I used this method for hearing and understanding differences in dialects in Vietnamese with audio news reports from different regions.

I've never tried real "shadowing" where I spoke at the same time as the naitive, but I found that being able to read along with, and fully understand, the text at naitive level speed really helps train the ear.

Edit=quote

oh yeah I used News VOA: http://www.voanews.com which has written news articles that are also available to download by mp3, spoken by a newscaster. They have 55 different languages available including Chinese, but unfortunately no Japanese area.

styrmis Wrote:When you say 'simultaneously', is the aim to speak at exactly the same time as the speaker in the dialogue? At the moment I trail behind by (approximately) 3/4 of a second.

I meant trailing behind slightly. I found that there was just an ugly cacophony of sound which was really unappealing. It worked for some people though and it looks like it does for you. When my teachers used it in class, they tried all sorts of different timings and they concluded that students should do whatever they think works.

I think the central idea is to try and create an aural memory of phrases by hearing and saying them every day. Therefore I think it's important that whatever audio clips you use are natural Japanese conversation.

It might be interesting to create a shadowing deck for SRS.

I've been looking through the How-to-learn-any-language forum a bit more and found that Ardaschir/ProfArguelles sais at some point that reading along while listening to the audio should be used before the actuall shadowing. When shadowing a TV-show or an actual conversation that might be a bit hard, but it might really help to get used to the language.

I also agree that my choise of material might be a bit too high up at the moment. So I'll just read (without mouthing) along with the audio book, but will use an audio from my workbook to use for shadowing.

Since I haven't fully figured out how this all works, I can't be sure that it will improve fluency, but I assume that reading out loud along or shadowing an audio of the target language will force one to train the mouthing (nerve-muscel-connection) of the target language; and in the long run might help to obtain the speed that is normally used.

Thanks for the input, I'll give it another more thorough try, since the combination of shadowing with using Assimil sound quite promising.

stehr If you're looking for news with audio perhaps TBS News might be worth a look. Sometimes there is a bit of extra text in the written version however everything that is spoken usually appears.

I got some free shadowing CDs and texts from a language school in Tokyo where I went for a summer course. I found it to be useful but a little boring over the long term. It is something that I come back to once in a while though and it definately has its place as one of my learning tools.

Even though it was really hard at first, after a few runs my ability to get my tounge around some of the longer conjugations really improved.

My opinion is that you really have to think about what you want to get from this or indeed any other exercise. I decided that it wasn't going to teach me grammar or vocabulary or even help me produce sentences since it is not really active production of the language. What it did highlight though is that my speach is really staccato(?), my little "tsu" sounds are non-existant, and my intonation is typically "foreign". Because I was forced to think about these things I found that my listening ability really jumped, especially when listening to full speed Japanese.

My method was to listen to the CD with the book open and try to match my speed and intonation to the people speaking. I read along and didn't try to remember the sentences because that wsn't my aim. At first I tried being slightly behind but then I couldn't concentrate on either my own voice or the CD so I switched to speaking simultaneously. This switch was "my" key to success.

I would reccomend starting with something easy. Isolated sentences not whole books, and keep doing the same sentences over and over until you can match your pace with the person on the CD. The Unicom books are good for this.

synewave Wrote:stehr If you're looking for news with audio perhaps TBS News might be worth a look. Sometimes there is a bit of extra text in the written version however everything that is spoken usually appears.

agreed. this is seriously a good source for shadowing. all the text is usually exactly the same as the spoken text of the video.

Regarding TBS News

yorkii Wrote:this is seriously a good source for shadowing.

This is a seriously good source. Period

Awesome! Thank you so much synewave.

It seems that many on this thread are only talking about how shadowing helps with pronounciation and intonation. IMO it helps with much more. Among other things, I have found it greatly improved my listening skills. Before shadowing there would be many words I did not catch and therefore not understand what was being said. But when I started shadowing it forced me to pay attention to every word that is said and further understand what was being said.

I like to shadow the jpod101 dialogues. with the beginning lessons they say the dialogue 3 times. First they say it at normal speed and I just try to understand what is being said. Second they say it slowly and I try to shadow every word. Then they say it a third time with line by line translation and I again shadow. After listening to the lesson I listen to the dialogue one more time at full speed and I try to shadow again.
For something I was going to listen to anyway, the shadowing just makes the listening more engaging. Before when I wasn't shadowing I would often find my mind wandering and get bored.

Shadowing IMO is a great way to enhance what you are already doing. For example you can shadow dramas, movies, etc. that otherwise you would be listening to anyway.
I sometimes even shadow conversation I hear on the train (in my mind).

laner36 Wrote:I sometimes even shadow conversation I hear on the train (in my mind).

Ahah, for a moment I imagined shadowing someone on the train, out loud... I wonder what the reaction would be

nac_est Wrote:

laner36 Wrote:I sometimes even shadow conversation I hear on the train (in my mind).

Ahah, for a moment I imagined shadowing someone on the train, out loud... I wonder what the reaction would be

Reminds me of Wayne's World (3?) when Wayne is walking around shouting Chinese

It worked for him!

Quote:wrightak wrote:
I went to a Japanese language school in Tokyo where some of the teachers wrote a book on shadowing. You can find it here:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%82%B7%E3%83 ? amp;sr=8-5

I wrote all of the English translations in the book.

That's the one I use in my class! Thanks for the translation.

After shadowing while reading the text about three times, by teacher told me to close the book and do it. I thought she was nuts, but then was amazed when I could actually do it. It's like my brain forgot, but my mouth remembered. I think this is a great addition to language study. You have to plow through the tongue twisters and get them right instead of read them slowly like you normally do.

Wakela Wrote:That's the one I use in my class! Thanks for the translation.

No problem! It's great to hear that some people are using the book and find it of value. I definitely didn't do the work for the money.

Looks like my local Kinokuniya has the シャドーイング book in stock. I'm probably going to pick it up tomorrow.

I'd like to state that IMO shadowing and chorusing are different. I realize some like to shadow simultaneously with the recording, rather than lagging a fraction of a second. But that's not what I'm talking about. Here are my rough definitions:

Chorusing is used with syllables, words, or single sentences. The item is short - one has to have it memorized (on the fly is acceptable) to be able to eliminate any discrepencies between the voice and the recording. The item is repeated in high repetitions. The purpose of chorusing is to improve pronunciation. I'm convinced that it improves pronunciation.

Shadowing is used with several minutes of recorded material. It's not necessary to have the material memorized - the sound guides the speaker, and there may be a slight lag. The item is repeated in low to moderate repetitions. Some like to repeat until they have it memorized. One purpose of shadowing is pronunciation. Other purposes are listening, grammar, etc. I'm convinced that it improves pronunciation, but I don't know about the other stuff.

I wrote this because it seems some posters are confusing the two. I know that this is a little controversial. There are certainly some overlaps between Chorusing and Shadowing, and some believe they are essentially the same thing. Maybe one can think of chorusing as short, high-rep, intensive shadowing in which a lag is not acceptable.

leosmith, can chorusing include recording yourself to mimic the recording/tape of the naitive speaker? I've done this to check out how good/bad my accent was and tweak it a bit, I'm wondering this method is....on the topic of improving accent

stehr Wrote:leosmith, can chorusing include recording yourself to mimic the recording/tape of the naitive speaker? I've done this to check out how good/bad my accent was and tweak it a bit, I'm wondering this method is....on the topic of improving accent

Hi stehr, a lot of people do that (especially Mandarin learners), and say it's very helpful. It's not chorusing, but it is helpful.

For me it would probably be helpful, but not as good as chorusing. When I'm talking right on top of the recording, I can tweek my voice to almost perfectly replicate the recording. It's an istantaneous biofeedback correction process which is my favorite kind

On the other hand people who don't have an "ear for the language" might not take to chorusing very well. I think it's best to experiment.