I haven't been on this forum much recently due to lack of study but when I was studying Japanese this forum was a fantastic resource and source of motivation.

I've now taken up studying programming starting with python and have been looking for a similar forum / community. Not too small, not too big with lots of people working towards similar goals. I know there are (were at least) some programmers on here so thought I'd see if anyone knew anything.

I know stack overflow and have searched google but nothing yet has stood out.

There really doesn't seem to be much in the way of programming communities a la koohii. Something like Python doesn't take nearly as much effort as Japanese, so you just buckle down for a couple weeks to get familiar with the basics and off you go to write code and google for specific solutions. That's where stackoverflow fits in and there's probably not much need for a community, really. For chit-chat, IRC might still be a viable option.

That's too bad. I see what you mean, and that is pretty much what I've been doing. I guess learning python is like learning the kana and N5 grammar. But there is still a long long way to go and it would be useful to see different peoples learning methods, how they progress and the tools they use. Now I am getting okay with python am wondering what to do next with stuff like git, django, mysql etc.

I'll try irc, have never really used it.

caivano Wrote:But there is still a long long way to go and it would be useful to see different peoples learning methods, how they progress and the tools they use.

Tips? How about getting word frequency right in a text editor?

Code:

:%s/\_A\+/\t1\r/g
:sort i
:g/^\c\(.\+\)\n\1$/norm! $yiwj@"^Akdd

(After: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Word_frequency...for_a_file)

Inny Jan Wrote:

caivano Wrote:But there is still a long long way to go and it would be useful to see different peoples learning methods, how they progress and the tools they use.

Tips? How about getting word frequency right in a text editor?

Code:

:%s/\_A\+/\t1\r/g
:sort i
:g/^\c\(.\+\)\n\1$/norm! $yiwj@"^Akdd

(After: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Word_frequency...for_a_file)

I don't think he was asking about things to do, so specifically. He was asking about more generally where should he go next in his programming in general. Should he learn about using code revision, should he learn databases, etc.

Though that is still cool.

Not quite the same thing, but you could try getting involved in some 勉強会 for Python developers. Looks like there's one coming up on Jul. 12:
http://atnd.org/events/52136

It's booked full right now, but there's a wait list, and these things often have cancellations.

Also, have you tried any of the Python chatrooms on Stack Overflow? That might be a good way to connect with people and share experience.

caivano Wrote:Now I am getting okay with python am wondering what to do next with stuff like git, django, mysql etc.

Depends on your ultimate goals. If it's web development, it also depends on what specifically you want to do.

For full-stack, I would ditch Python, Django and MySQL altogether and instead go Javascript from top to bottom with Node.js+MongoDB on the backend and JQuery on the frontend. Maybe even AngularJS for the full "MEAN stack".

Thanks for the replies, this is why I'm looking for a forum like koohii!

Inny Jan Wrote:Tips? How about getting word frequency right in a text editor?

Code:

:%s/\_A\+/\t1\r/g
:sort i
:g/^\c\(.\+\)\n\1$/norm! $yiwj@"^Akdd

(After: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Word_frequency...for_a_file)

I have no idea what this is... but I'll come back in a year and see if I understand it.

JimmySeal Wrote:Not quite the same thing, but you could try getting involved in some 勉強会 for Python developers. Looks like there's one coming up on Jul. 12:
http://atnd.org/events/52136

It's booked full right now, but there's a wait list, and these things often have cancellations.

Also, have you tried any of the Python chatrooms on Stack Overflow? That might be a good way to connect with people and share experience.

Nope I haven't head of 勉強会 but will look in to it. I think I did stumble across the python chatroom, I'm def more of a forum person than a chat person, but if I can't find a forum I'll give it a go.

shinsen Wrote:Depends on your ultimate goals. If it's web development, it also depends on what specifically you want to do.

For full-stack, I would ditch Python, Django and MySQL altogether and instead go Javascript from top to bottom with Node.js+MongoDB on the backend and JQuery on the frontend. Maybe even AngularJS for the full "MEAN stack".

I'm not sure about my ultimate goal but a long term goal would be to make a website with upload, download and review functionality. I started with Python as I did the Udacity CS101 course which used Python and enjoyed it so have just kept learning more. Also I have been using pythonanywhere.com to host scripts and stuff.

If I was to do the Javascript path, what would be a sensible order to learn those things?

A good way to improve yourself would be to read source code from other programmers. For example if you want to do a CMS it is a good thing to study the code of other CMSs, if you are in game programming then read sources of open source games etc..

caivano Wrote:I'm not sure about my ultimate goal but a long term goal would be to make a website with upload, download and review functionality. I started with Python as I did the Udacity CS101 course which used Python and enjoyed it so have just kept learning more.

Python is beautiful and very enjoyable, indeed. It can also be useful later on, even if you use a different language for web development.

I'll give you the overview of web development zeitgeist as it evolved. In my not very informed opinion, for what it's worth.

x-x years ago. PHP+MySQL, what else.
6-3 years ago. Yay, Django, we can make websites fast and Python is so pretty.
6-2 years ago. Ruby on Rails, man. Not just websites, web apps! And Ruby is so fun.
2-1 years ago. Node.js is the new hotness and Javascript is... nobody is quite sure but it keeps producing rainbows and unicorns.

Granted, things are always in flux and even good old PHP reportedly has a very decent framework these days. But Node is where the excitement is currently at (it's not a full-stack framework itself but there is a Cambrian explosion happening on top of it). There are a number of reasons - web developers like shiny new things, one language for the full stack is awesome, you need Javascript anyway if you do frontend.

As for the recommended curriculum path, depends on how hard-core you want to get. Unix is a must, you should be comfortable with the command line. Even the basics will go a long way. Also, developing on Windows - some do it, but it's better on Linux or OS X. With Git, you need the basics to get just enough operational competence but I wouldn't sweat it too much with the advanced stuff before you're even writing enough code.

caivano Wrote:If I was to do the Javascript path, what would be a sensible order to learn those things?

A basic full-stack JS web app could be something like:

=Backend=
- Static files server: Node.js (as an alternative to Apache or Nginx). Static files are your html, css, image files.
- Framework: Node.js modules like Express (as an alternative to Django or Rails).
- Application logic: just Javascript processed by Node.
- Database: commonly MongoDB rather than MySQL or PostreSQL.

=Frontend=
For interactivity in the browser you'll want to manipulate your HTML+CSS. Some choices are:
- HTML5 API (could vary depending on the browser)
- JQuery (helps with the browser zoo and makes complex stuff easier)

These would be the sensible basics. Things can get fancier from there, with build, test, lint, minification tools, frontend frameworks etc. For a solid database-driven application you'd be good with Node+Express, MongoDB, JQuery.

@vix86

Yes, I did get that. But I also noticed that the OP was asking about tools too. He wasn’t specific as for what tools he had in mind and I thought that a showcase of what you can do with vim would be a good tip.

@OP

If you choose for follow the profession of a software engineer, you will need to develop skills in the following areas:
1. Domain knowledge (gaming, data analysis, databases, etc.)
2. Technologies used to solve problems in that domain (languages, frameworks, APIs, etc.)
3. Toolset that make you efficient in your daily tasks (text editors, IDEs, office applications, etc.)

My tip was meant to point you at a text editor that allows you to do a complex text manipulation. I don’t think there is a text editor that matches vim (however, Emacs guys will likely disagree...).

If there isn't a close equivalent to this forum in the world of coding, and considering it seems there are many programmers here, wouldn't it be possible to create a subforum, or at least keep a couple of threads for programmers to share information and ideas and help each other ?

You could make a thread for programming in the Lounge/Off-topic board.

If people want whole forums then people should try googling for <Programming Language> Forum and see what they find.

There are also sub-reddits focused on programming and learning to program as well. Programming is just a different beast from language learning. While learning a spoken language can be set up in a path to travel with steps of progression, that just doesn't fit programming, because the things that you can do with programming languages is just so incredibly varied. With python, maybe you want to do web apps, then that might be Django or SQL, but maybe you are focused on scientific applications and in that case you'll get into NumPy/SciPy and using CPython for optimization. Maybe you want to do Natural Language Processing, then its NLTK. Computer vision? OpenCV. There are directions to take everything.

There are forums and email groups out there for all this stuff but you need to search. Part of being a programmer is learning to find answers on your own and solve your own problems. Be that with a tutorial, googling, asking on StackOverflow. There are programmers on here and many of us are willing to offer suggestions or guidance, but this forum just isn't a good place for in-depth assistance on learning to program.

Shinsen, thanks for all the info I'll look into Javascript when I start my next project.

Inny Jan Wrote:If you choose for follow the profession of a software engineer, you will need to develop skills in the following areas:
1. Domain knowledge (gaming, data analysis, databases, etc.)
2. Technologies used to solve problems in that domain (languages, frameworks, APIs, etc.)
3. Toolset that make you efficient in your daily tasks (text editors, IDEs, office applications, etc.)

My tip was meant to point you at a text editor that allows you to do a complex text manipulation. I don’t think there is a text editor that matches vim (however, Emacs guys will likely disagree...).

I see, I have heard of vim... I'm using Sublime Text 2 at the moment but will look into vim when I have time, thanks

Sebastian Wrote:If there isn't a close equivalent to this forum in the world of coding, and considering it seems there are many programmers here, wouldn't it be possible to create a subforum, or at least keep a couple of threads for programmers to share information and ideas and help each other ?

It would be nice! But I think one of the reasons this forum is so good for Japanese is that it's so focussed on language learning and Japan.

BTW I have found one that looks pretty good: http://www.dreamincode.net/forums/index

It even has a 'Caffeine Lounge'...!

caivano Wrote:I see, I have heard of vim... I'm using Sublime Text 2 at the moment but will look into vim when I have time, thanks

Vim is for snobs. It has keyboard shortcuts instead of menus for commands (supposedly more efficient, but takes a long time to learn - not worth it in the end). Just use Sublime Text.

If you want to be efficient, later on when it actually makes a small difference, you can just get a better mouse.

Stansfield123 Wrote:Vim is for snobs. It has keyboard shortcuts instead of menus for commands (supposedly more efficient, but takes a long time to learn - not worth it in the end). Just use Sublime Text.

If you want to be efficient, later on when it actually makes a small difference, you can just get a better mouse.

I would rather avoid going there:

Wikipedia Wrote:Many flame wars have been fought between groups insisting that their editor of choice is the paragon of editing perfection, and insulting the others.