There hasn't been much cultural discussion lately, so it's time to stir the pot. I read an interesting article today on Tofugu about "black companies" (ブラック企業) in Japan. I know many koohii users work in Japan, so now is your chance to share stories of your work experience. I found a checklist for signs of a black company to be especially interesting:

The Article Wrote:1. I do work overtime, but overtime is never paid.
2. It’s usual to work more than 80 hours overtime a month.
3. I don’t have a break, or at the most, 10 minutes a day.
4. I work on my days off. Actually, I’m not even sure when my days off are.
5. There is no paid time off system or if there is such a system, I am never allowed to use it.
6. I never get reimbursed for expenses and always have to pay out of pocket.
7. There is no social insurance, benefits, or pension. If I ask about this, I would be bullied.
8. If I converted my monthly wage into an hourly rate equivalent, it would be less than minimum wage.
9. Regardless of how long I work overtime, the overtime payment is a fixed amount.
10. The company is constantly hiring new employees.
11. The advertised job wage is different from the actual amount paid.
12. There are no time cards or someone else punches you in and out.
13. There are one or more workers who can’t come to the office due to psychotic depression or nervous breakdown.
14. I’m so busy that I often can’t get adequate sleep.
15. There is no union or company regulations.
16. Some employees are promoted to an administrative position right after joining the company, but there is no extra remuneration for that.
17. Employees have to run private errands for their employers.
18. There is a slogan saying “work until you die” on the company wall.
19. Abuse of power and sexual harassment are very common.
20. There are so many affiliate companies and subsidiaries, though I don’t even know what those companies do.
21. Whenever some incident happens, the company changes its name.
22. There are training sessions, which use what can be considered brainwashing or hazing.
23. Threats such as “I’m going to kill you” can be commonly heard at the office.
24. Violence is rampant.
25. All the supervisors are relatives of the CEO.
26. I was told to quit the company in a roundabout way like, “you may not be cut out for this position.”
27. I can’t quit the job. If I say I’m going to quit, I’ll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting.
28. They don’t provide the necessary documents such as the separation slip to those who try to quit.
29. The worker’s average age is really young.
30. The rate of people leaving their jobs within 3 years is really high.

Let's see whose company has the least/most items on the checklist!

Switching topics, in the past few months a handful of great contributors have joined Tofugu, and so there's been a sudden jump in the quality and quantity of their content. Usually I don't read comments, but many of the commenters make interesting contributions as well. For example, in response to the article I linked, one commenter writes:

Diffusor Wrote:First, it's worth noting that the name "Watami" translates roughly to "the people of harmony." This is actually common in Japan - words like "harmony" often serve only as empty, meaningless racist dogwhistles. The fact that the owner of "People of Harmony" is anything but harmonious is a perfect example of this. "Omotenashi" is similar, as anyone who lives in Japan knows. There is a list of words that are "essentially Japanese" that are really just positive myths the Japanese want to believe about themselves (and that foreigners eat right up). The term "dogwhistle" refers to the fact that, while these words seem innocuous and empty to you and me, they carry a lot of emotional power and will elicit a very specific response from Japanese people (and in those who are in love with Japan).

This is part of the reason why so many Black Companies can get away with their crimes - they play to people's emotional, conditioned responses - People of Harmony? Why that sounds so quintessentially Japanese! How could that POSSIBLY be a bad company? (If you're not American, think of the word "harmony" as being similar to the American's mindless chants of "freedom" and how mindlessly Americans can be when consuming things that celebrate their "freedom.") This is part of what people are saying when they say "sho ga nai." That's how things are. That's the price we pay for such beautiful harmony. It doesn't matter how many people have to be worked to death - that is the price of "harmony." (Again, a lot like how many rabid Americans gladly exchange their rights for more "freedom.")

The other point that stands out here, and really needs to be said in defence of Japanese culture is - when Japanese companies abide by real, actual laws - they're actually pretty f-ing great. I'm from the Midwest (Indiana) and let me tell you - jobs at Japanese car companies - either on the factory line or in the offices - are HIGHLY valued. The companies have a very good reputation for good pay and good benefits. They are simply the best in the region - and, notably, American-made Japanese cars are simply some of the best on the market.

I interviewed with some of them, and the reasons for this that they cited are the exact same things that make life in Japan so bleak: group harmony. They believed in fostering an environment of cooperation and harmony, and guess what? When Japanese companies follow labor laws? They DO create an environment of harmony and cooperation.

When old, Japanese men run the show unchallenged by any higher authority - unbound by any law - they become monsters. That is really what's happening with "Black Companies" - hell, with Japanese society as a whole - power corrupts, as they say, and old, Japanese men have nearly unlimited power within the borders of Japan.

In the US, though? That power and privilege crumbles, and when that power and privilege disappears, the values of "harmony" and cooperation get to actually thrive. It's a really good argument for why we need to exchange cultures and listen to the foreigners among us - when ideas cross cultures, it's very common for their true value to shine through. It turns out that Japanese harmony + American meritocracy = a really awesome place to work.

That's an encouraging message, because America certainly has tons of problems with "Black Companies" as well, for very much the same reason Japan does (tons of cultural myths about why we are just plain the best on the planet.) When we break down those myths, we start to see reality, and we start to get better at what we do. And that's actually pretty awesome.

Short answer to the problem? More foreign companies in Japan run by foreign executives, similar to the Japanese companies in America run by Japanese execs. Cultural diffusion is a very, very good thing.

What do you think? Is a mix of Japanese harmony and American transparency/meritocracy the best solution to ridding ourselves of black companies? I'd especially like to hear from someone who works in a Japanese company in the U.S. or who works in an American company in Japan. What other problems, if any, could be solved or alleviated by cultural diffusion?

On a side note, the comment's discussion of "dog whistles" is especially interesting since I see the phenomenon more or less daily as an American living in the U.S. In general, Japanese dog whistles seem tied to nihonjin-ron and the pervasive idea of Japanese uniqueness (this video is trending on the Japanese web right now). What about your own country, though? I'm very curious to learn about dog whistles around the world.

At any rate, I apologize for the long post, but I hope it's interesting. I look forward to some good discussion.

Yeah I read that same article and also thought that same commentator was really interesting. I think the "freedom"/"harmony" comparison is quite a good one.

I can't speak for all of them, but I know at least one U.S. company here in Japan which behaves just appallingly in how it exploits its workers. It is definitely a "black company". The worst part? My partner entered it as we both assumed it would be a bit easier culturally for her to fit in as a non-Japanese person. It's true that it has quite a few 帰国子女 and people with exchange experience on staff, but it is extremely exploitative despite being a "big brand" company.

I don't think you've established that getting rid of "black companies" would be a good thing.

If we define morality in a social context to mean "that which does not violate a person's individual right to life, liberty and property" (based on the principles of the European Enlightenment and the American revolution), then keeping one's business dealings secret from the government for the purpose of evading taxes and regulations (the definition of the "black market", and by extension, of "black companies") fits the definition of moral, rather than immoral, simply because it does not constitute a violation of anyone's rights.

On the other hand, if we define morality in a social context to mean "following the rules set by the government", or societal conventions, then being a black company fits the definition of immoral (along with acts such as helping Jews in Nazi Germany, or criticizing the government in China).

There are other ways to define morality in a social context, besides just those two. But, for a conversation on this subject to be logical, a definition (an unambiguous and non-contradictory one) is necessary. So, what definition of "bad" are you operating on? Please note that simply dropping in the phrase "whatever promotes harmony" is neither unambiguous nor non-contradictory. Neither is "whatever protects people's rights", unless you first define rights in an unambiguous and non-contradictory way.

What about smaller cities and countryside places? Do people still work 80 hours and die from exhaustion?

Those places gotta be much more relaxing right?

Stansfield123 Wrote:...

One of my favorite criticisms of philosophy (and I majored in it), is Richard Feynman's observation that philosophers think they need to strive for precise language when in fact they should be striving for clear language.

Anyway, I'm not sure how coming up with an exact definition of morality and then seeing what meets that definition is a useful process at all. And I think you're using the word 'logical' wrong--seeing whether something meets a definition is not 'logic,' so I don't see how this conversation would become more logical merely by introducing a definition.

Tzadeck Wrote:

Stansfield123 Wrote:...

One of my favorite criticisms of philosophy (and I majored in it), is Richard Feynman's observation that philosophers think they need to strive for precise language when in fact they should be striving for clear language.

Anyway, I'm not sure how coming up with an exact definition of morality and then seeing what meets that definition is a useful process at all. And I think you're using the word 'logical' wrong--seeing whether something meets a definition is not 'logic,' so I don't see how this conversation would become more logical merely by introducing a definition.

Logic can only be applied to words that have meaning. The role of definitions is to give words meaning.

Surely, you do understand why you can't use words that don't have clearly defined referents in reality, to make a statement that has truth value?

Stansfield123 Wrote:Logic can only be applied to words that have meaning. The role of definitions is to give words meaning.

Surely, you do understand why you can't use words that don't have clearly defined referents in reality, to make a statement that has truth value?

No, logic can be applied to words that don't have any meaning whatsoever:

P1: All felagins are bumblepoops
P2: Bambooga is a felagin
C: Therefore, Bambooga is a bumblepoop

In logic, the reasoning is evaluated, not the truth value of the premises, nor whether or not the words have defined referents.

You can also make statements that have truth value despite using vocabulary that is not clearly defined. In fact I'm sure you do so every day.

Danchan Wrote:I can't speak for all of them, but I know at least one U.S. company here in Japan which behaves just appallingly in how it exploits its workers.

Could you share its name, or at least some stories? I'm not trying to relate the two, but McDonald's was under fire a few years ago because of several reports of karoshi (過労死).

I suspect that some American companies (usually the ones that don't have stellar reputations in the U.S.) try to exploit cultural norms when they operate in foreign countries.

Stansfield123 Wrote:I don't think you've established that getting rid of "black companies" would be a good thing.

We don't need to establish anything if we just grant the assumption. It'd be impossible for almost any argument to get off the ground without appealing to at least some assumption. There's nothing controversial about assuming that black companies aren't a good thing. I can't think of any mainstream ethical framework, even thoroughly libertarian ones that champion self-interest, that would dare to assume otherwise. It's possible there exists a wildly counterintuitive argument that challenges the assumption, but the burden of proof rests with whomever attempts to hold that position.

By making uncontroversial assumptions (or even controversial ones), we're able to limit the scope of an argument and address a particular issue without having to write an unnecessarily long treatise.

That is not to say that we shouldn't be concerned about foundations and questioning assumptions. But if everyone agrees on some assumptions and we can jump straight into discussing an issue, then we can make an argument given that x is the case, where "x" equals whatever the assumption is. Yes, that doesn't establish that x actually is the case, but the argument isn't trying to establish that, and so it's not a problem.

Additionally, your view assumes philosophical revisionism, i.e. the view that philosophy may change our views of what is right and wrong (as opposed to philosophical conservatism, which is the view that we already know what is right and wrong and philosophy only explains our knowledge). If you're going to ask me for my moral framework, then, to be consistent, you need to give me your epistemic framework.

Also, I second Tzadeck's remarks. I admire their pithiness too.

I won't really comment on the cultural dimensions of black companies in Japan but I will state that the problem is compounded by Japan's rigid labor laws which heavily restrict labor mobility.

It's very easy to quit a black company in America and move on to another job. It's a very difficult and costly process in Japan.

vileru Wrote:I suspect that some American companies (usually the ones that don't have stellar reputations in the U.S.) try to exploit cultural norms when they operate in foreign countries.

Some American companies bring in a lot of Japanese workers into the management structure when they setup in Japan. Obviously a lot of these managers are going to bring in what they know and a lot of the Japanese that go to work for some of these places, also have their own ideas on how work culture is.

So it shouldn't come as a surprise that there are American companies with horrible working conditions in Japan.

Quote:There's nothing controversial about assuming that black companies aren't a good thing. I can't think of any mainstream ethical framework, even thoroughly libertarian ones that champion self-interest, that would dare to assume otherwise.

I don't believe the libertarian mindset would necessarily make a statement about the good or bad of a black company. It would simply come down to an issue of what the two parties would agree on. Something to the affect of "Free market would dictate whether the operating practices of a company are "good" or "bad." If a worker is willing to put up with the working standards that a company has put in place and accept the compensation for the conditions of the job. While at the same time, the company is successful and profitable, then its fine and good. However, if the conditions are bad and no one will work at the company for what the company wants to pay, then the company, and the other companies using similar working conditions, will flounder and go under."

The Libertarian view rarely sets down points on morality. About the only are they set down views on good vs bad is where state/government/regulation seems to come into play. A government regulating what a business/person can or cannot do; or taking money from a business/person, is considered bad.

But to get back to the point. No strong Libertarian is probably going to say that "black companies are bad, so we need to do something to stop them from operating this way," because it goes counter to the ideology that people are able to do what they want as long as they have a choice and are not infringing on others' own ability to do the same.

kitakitsune Wrote:I won't really comment on the cultural dimensions of black companies in Japan but I will state that the problem is compounded by Japan's rigid labor laws which heavily restrict labor mobility.

It's very easy to quit a black company in America and move on to another job. It's a very difficult and costly process in Japan.

Be that as it may, the number of fresh graduates quiting their first corp job within the first year, has been steadily increasing.

Looking back at my post, I guess I should have included an example of a statement without clearly defined referents that nevertheless has truth value.

Here's one: "My dental health would be worse if I didn't take care of my teeth."

Are 'dental health' and 'taking care of my teeth' clearly defined? Is this statement true?
I'd say 'no' to the first, and 'yes' to the second.

vileru Wrote:Could you share its name, or at least some stories? I'm not trying to relate the two, but McDonald's was under fire a few years ago because of several reports of karoshi (過労死).

It has a positive reputation in the U.S. and is a large international corporation. I'm afraid I'm under strict orders from the GF not to blab. They do and have fired people for less.

If something is not done about these companies I think we will see long term negative impacts for Japan as young professionals leave the work place (or the country) due to burn-out. There is talk of increasing the number of foreign professionals who are allowed to work in Japan, but how many are going to stick around and benefit the country when the working environment is so harsh? Cultural and linguistic barriers are already significant without throwing mind-numbing amounts of unpaid overtime into the mix.


It seems there are more than a few philosophy majors in this crowd. ;-)

Does anyone know if there's a Japanese site like Glassdoor? It seems, in general, Japanese people are much more reluctant than Westerners to badmouth companies. That may be another reason for the existence of black companies in Japan. Although, their reluctance is a bit counterintuitive since lawsuits are less prevalent in Japan, and so there's less legal risk. At any rate, sites like Glassdoor have made it much more difficult for unfair business practices to go unnoticed, and the anonymity factor may make people less reluctant to talk (although, there's no such thing as anonymity online). To deal with all the bad PR, some companies allegedly have employees post positive reviews and attack negative ones. While it's nice to know what the top 10 black companies are, there are probably many more. Sites like Glassdoor increase transparency and accountability for not just 10 companies, but (hopefully) all of them.

vix86 Wrote:I don't believe the libertarian mindset would necessarily make a statement about the good or bad of a black company. It would simply come down to an issue of what the two parties would agree on. Something to the affect of "Free market would dictate whether the operating practices of a company are "good" or "bad."

Thanks for pointing this out. Since I was replying from a philosophic point of view, I didn't consider more economic views. However, I wouldn't consider the view you describe mainstream, at least from a philosophical point of view. Having good and bad decided by the market is more or less a form of moral relativism, and therefore falls prey to all the criticisms against moral relativism. No serious libertarian philosopher would take the position.

vix86 Wrote:But to get back to the point. No strong Libertarian is probably going to say that "black companies are bad, so we need to do something to stop them from operating this way," because it goes counter to the ideology that people are able to do what they want as long as they have a choice and are not infringing on others' own ability to do the same. (emphasis added)

This is actually the reason why I said no mainstream libertarian ethical framework would oppose the assumption. A lot of these companies deprive their employees of their autonomy. They do things like lie about hours and wages/salaries on job ads, withhold wages/salaries/benefits, and stonewall people who are trying to resign. All of these actions deprive people of their ability to freely choose, and it doesn't matter whether these actions are good for the economy or not. A libertarian who supports slavery, even an economically-minded one, nonetheless violates core libertarian principles. This violation holds whether the market votes with trillions of dollars or not even a penny.

vileru Wrote:Does anyone know if there's a Japanese site like Glassdoor? It seems, in general, Japanese people are much more reluctant than Westerners to badmouth companies. That may be another reason for the existence of black companies in Japan. Although, their reluctance is a bit counterintuitive since lawsuits are less prevalent in Japan, and so there's less legal risk. At any rate, sites like Glassdoor have made it much more difficult for unfair business practices to go unnoticed, and the anonymity factor may make people less reluctant to talk (although, there's no such thing as anonymity online). To deal with all the bad PR, some companies allegedly have employees post positive reviews and attack negative ones. While it's nice to know what the top 10 black companies are, there are probably many more. Sites like Glassdoor increase transparency and accountability for not just 10 companies, but (hopefully) all of them.

I don't believe there is a Japanese glassdoor but the companies that employ foreign workers do tend to post on Glassdoor. Japan could do to have a Japanese glassdoor.

Quote:This is actually the reason why I said no mainstream libertarian ethical framework would oppose the assumption. A lot of these companies deprive their employees of their autonomy. They do things like lie about hours and wages/salaries on job ads, withhold wages/salaries/benefits, and stonewall people who are trying to resign. All of these actions deprive people of their ability to freely choose, and it doesn't matter whether these actions are good for the economy or not. A libertarian who supports slavery, even an economically-minded one, nonetheless violates core libertarian principles. This violation holds whether the market votes with trillions of dollars or not even a penny.

I'm not sure how a libertarian would view lying (since I'm not a libertarian or know too much in depth about the ideology). I think they might find it immoral, but I still think many strong proponents would probably just say that a company that lies will find it self rooted out by the market. The workers that are lied to still have the free choice to leave their job when they find out that they were lied. Unless the company is locking them in at the place physically and holding them there against their will; there is nothing stopping the worker from just up and leaving and taking their services else where. Nonetheless, no strong leaning libertarian is going to believe that the correct solution is 'get the government to stop the business (practice).' Because in a "truly free market," the market will decide which is best, or at least that's how the ideology would probably look at it I think.

There's crappy companies everywhere. Best solution if you find yourself at one: find another job, but only take the job after doing your due dilligence (e.g., talking to people who have worked/currently work there).

I saw a few weeks ago on one of the Sunday shows on NHK that the government was trying to make a push to get more "white companies" ホワイト企業 going... I think the number of companies signed up was around 80 or so, and they were mostly small-> medium-sized businesses.

I can't tell if this is a real effort or just a stand play to show voters, "Yes, we know working conditions here suck, and we're going to do something about it; it just won't be very effective, because we don't want to piss off all of the black companies that are our big contributors."

Also, can someone elaborate on how Japan's labor laws make relocating/changing jobs so difficult?

Kind of related, but I found this good article talking about problems with the reality of 国際化, with the original source apparently being Tofugu.

http://www.madameriri.com/2014/03/04/%E3...%E6%97%A5/



http://www.tofugu.com/2014/02/27/some-th...alization/