Hi all

Looking around the forum I found this very good (in my opinion) web site offering some short japanese text with english translation:

http://www.nippontalk.com/en/

Since I'm a beginner student I think this is a very good way to make practice. Following this way I had the idea to look for some popular book available in both japanese and foreign language, comparing it and use for improve and pactice. In the beginning I though to Harry Potter series since is famous and, in my idea, should be more simple since are books for children. However in the forum I found a person asking for similar suggestion and some other users discouraged this choice for different reasons. The main reasons with which I agree now was Harry Potter borned in english language and was translated to japanese than is not a good material for study. This mean I need to found some japanese writer who write his book in a not very complex japanese and so famous to find translated in foreign languages. I'm asking your suggestion about. For example Banana Yoshimoto could be the right choice? Do you have some other japanese author to suggest?

Thank you

I'm doing the same thing
Banana Yoshimoto works really well for me, I like her novels and her language is simple! I'm now reading The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle by Haruki Murakami and it's also quite easy to read. No idea about Harry Potter, but I did order them.

Only thing though: I don't get why you wouldn't want to read material that was translated to Japanese. If anything, the language might be more conventional. But probably, it would be about just the same as the other way around. Translators know their job and they make it enjoyable to their target audience, so why wouldn't it be good material for study? Best material for reading = things you really want to read.

For harry potter I think the issue (I never read it in japanese this is just what i've heard) is that there is a lot of katakana because of all the spell names and just in general non-japanese names. But I would think that the language itself should be alright. It might not be written in a "japanese style" of storytelling, but that doesnt really have much to do with the language that you are reading.

Still, the above 2 authors comeauch mentioned are ones that I see pop up a lot in things people like reading

It is fine to learn katakana really well. For me it's always been a weak point, whereas hiragana and kanji I could get; katakana just all looked similar to me. And there's certainly no shortage of borrowed words and onomatopoeia that use katakana. As for Harry Potter, I don't really like it in any language, but I forced myself to read it in both because it's one of the only audiobooks available in Japanese. The person who reads the audiobook is excellent though, and does voices for all the different characters.
I'll second Banana Yoshimoto. Kitchen is translated into English and it's a good beginner book. I've been reading 愛のむきだし because I've watched the movie a few times already. The book is exactly like the movie because the author and director are the same person, but there's a lot of difficult vocabulary because of the religious/Christian themes, and I've been more meticulous than in the past about looking up every word I am uncertain about in any way. I would hold off on that one for now if I were you.
I am lucky enough to have a Book-Off near me. I would find Japanese books in English, take them upstairs to the Japanese section, find the ones I could get past the first page on that also had an English version available and then I'd buy them. Now I have too many books so I'm forcing myself to read them.
I think it's equally important that you enjoy the material immensely as it is that it's level appropriate. I have a Brazilian friend whose monolingual English teacher told her to read books without watching the movie or reading the Portuguese version, but I think the opposite is true and most people here would agree: the more you know a story the easier it will be to understand the language when you take on reading the Japanese version, whether it's originally written in Japanese or not (I very much benefited from reading Murakami's translation of Catcher in the Rye, and there's Of Mice and Men which is an easy read if you have read those in English. They're also classics for good reason.)

For now I would suggest Akutagawa Ryunosuke, whose stories you can find with the translation here http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=752 and here http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=6840. They're short enough to be manageable but challenging enough that you'll need to read the Japanese a few times over once you've reviewed the vocab from them. The history of each story is interesting too because he borrows from various cultures/older stories and makes new ones.

It sounds like you're on the right path. Sorry I'm so wordy; you would almost think I know what I'm talking about I go on so long. じゃあ、楽しんで下さい。

About Banana Yoshimoto's books "kitchen" is the best suggested title to start from?

Thank you to all for replies. Currently I have a second hand book of Harry Potter bougth in Japan during my last trip. I bought the book since I noted furigana are reported for each kanji. On the contrary I guess other authors books like Banana Yoshimoto doesn't show furigana since it are considered book for adult than doesn't need them. What do you think about? Is a good or bad thing to check furigana in the reading? Currently my kanji knowledge level is very very poor than reading a japanese text without furigana will take me a lot of time and slow down the reading process. I can imagine the "effort" in look for kanji will help in memorize but my fear is I'm currently study grammar and too much information to learn (kanji and grammar) will drive me mad! :-)

I don't know about the authors but you should also check 'Hiragana Times'.
It's an magazine (don't know the topic, since I just found it) where an text is divided into smaller parts, beginning with English and then the same part in Japanese with furigana. It is aimed for foreigners and Japanese people who wants to learn English.
It is also available as an app.
Don't know if it is what you are looking for but it's really worth checking it.

I read "Kitchen" as one of my first novels and thought it was fun and not too terribly hard. It's been translated into at least French and English.

[Zgarbas]

Yeah, Kitchen is definitely the best novel to start with. It's easier than light novels, imho. (and I love it as a novel, so that's a plus )

Murakami Haruki is also simple-ish, but not *as* simple. Prepare your decks for dozens of sex terms; he really takes out the thesaurus when it comes to sex scenes.
I thought Dazai Osamu was surprisingly easy to read, and Japanese people will be pretty impressed if you've read him, so that's a bonus.

Light novels will usually have furigana I think. Also, there is this pretty useful book on the internet with enclosed hiragana, almost sentence-for-sentence translation, and interesting short stories to boot. I highly recommend it. Though I don't really recommend furigana, and for me it just gets in the way (if I have furigana I won't even look at the kanjis and just read the word to subconsciously maintain reading speed constancy)

Zgarbas Wrote:Yeah, Kitchen is definitely the best novel to start with. It's easier than light novels, imho. (and I love it as a novel, so that's a plus )

Murakami Haruki is also simple-ish, but not *as* simple. Prepare your decks for dozens of sex terms; he really takes out the thesaurus when it comes to sex scenes.
I thought Dazai Osamu was surprisingly easy to read, and Japanese people will be pretty impressed if you've read him, so that's a bonus.

Light novels will usually have furigana I think. Also, there is this pretty useful book on the internet with enclosed hiragana, almost sentence-for-sentence translation, and interesting short stories to boot. I highly recommend it. Though I don't really recommend furigana, and for me it just gets in the way (if I have furigana I won't even look at the kanjis and just read the word to subconsciously maintain reading speed constancy)

Does Dazai use many outdated kanji and hard stuff? I read Ningen shikkaku in French and liked it, I'd like to try reading it in the original when I'm more advanced...

1. Japanese translation can be a problem if the translator was not a Japanese… but I don’t think that’s the case with Harry Potter. In fact, I enjoyed HP in Japanese more than I enjoyed it in English. Katakana in HP was an extra bonus (you see, I hate them dearly ), so I loved the fact that Japanese HP had them in the volume it has.

2. You might want to try something non-fiction as well – here is a tip: http://digitalcast.jp/v/18611 (I just wish, there was something done similarly but with Japanese audio…)

poblequadrat Wrote:Yeah, Kitchen is definitely the best novel to start with. It's easier than light novels, imho. (and I love it as a novel, so that's a plus )


Does Dazai use many outdated kanji and hard stuff? I read Ningen shikkaku in French and liked it, I'd like to try reading it in the original when I'm more advanced...

I would say the kanji in Dazai Osamu's works are dated, but not outdated, and certainly not so different that it will make reading it much harder (that would be the subject matter). Botchan by Natsume Soseki is even older but I think it's easier to read and the audiobooks available for that are really good. The kanji for different words usually come up really often and you'll notice them right away, such as using 云う for 言う、which isn't wrong or unused today, it's just kinda old-fashioned.

OP and falsinsoft: Have you finished RTK ? If you had finished RTK I would suggest Kitchen. If that's the case, the lack of furigana shouldn't be a problem if you have some kind of kanji dictionary, or Mazec keyboard or something like that on a smartphone and some patience. Otherwise, some of the other suggestions might be good, such as HP and those linked websites.

Suppaman Wrote:Is a good or bad thing to check furigana in the reading? Currently my kanji knowledge level is very very poor than reading a japanese text without furigana will take me a lot of time and slow down the reading process. I can imagine the "effort" in look for kanji will help in memorize but my fear is I'm currently study grammar and too much information to learn (kanji and grammar) will drive me mad! :-)

It is a very very very good thing to have furigana. Furigana is something you slowly start not to need after you've seen a word with its reading a million times and have them firmly associated - and a great way to do that is by reading novels with furigana.

Anyway, I'll suggest 霧のむこうのふしぎな町, translated as The Marvelous Village Veiled in Mist. It's a children's book - the language in it is a bit difficult and I haven't actually finished it, but what I got through was interesting.

Oooh, also - きまぐれロボット, translated as 'The capricious robot'. It's a very easy book and probably a much better place to start than, well, anything else I'm seeing listed in this thread.

I haven't read the English versions of either of those, and I doubt anything else I've read has been translated. I think those two are legitimately well-known in Japan though.

[Zgarbas]

poblequadrat Wrote:

Zgarbas Wrote:Yeah, Kitchen is definitely the best novel to start with. It's easier than light novels, imho. (and I love it as a novel, so that's a plus )

Murakami Haruki is also simple-ish, but not *as* simple. Prepare your decks for dozens of sex terms; he really takes out the thesaurus when it comes to sex scenes.
I thought Dazai Osamu was surprisingly easy to read, and Japanese people will be pretty impressed if you've read him, so that's a bonus.

Light novels will usually have furigana I think. Also, there is this pretty useful book on the internet with enclosed hiragana, almost sentence-for-sentence translation, and interesting short stories to boot. I highly recommend it. Though I don't really recommend furigana, and for me it just gets in the way (if I have furigana I won't even look at the kanjis and just read the word to subconsciously maintain reading speed constancy)

Does Dazai use many outdated kanji and hard stuff? I read Ningen shikkaku in French and liked it, I'd like to try reading it in the original when I'm more advanced...

Dazai-the setting sun was my first ever novel, actually. I'd say about <5% of it was outdated or hard, mainly flower names, food names, clothing, etc, but overall his writing is pretty standard. I can't remember if that was the case with 人間失格. I recall one colleague complaining about Dazai using outdated grammar, but that was mostly her confusing grammar she doesn't know for outdated/rare =). He definitely has his confusing paragraphs, but overall it shouldn't be too difficult. His books are also found free on Aozora bunko so that's always a plus

Hi all

I really thank you to all for your replies that are very precious source of information.

He4rtl3ss: thank you about "hiragana times" suggestion, it seem exactly what I was looking for. However I don't understand very well if there is a free online version or only paid version. Just gave a quick check to the site right now, need to investigate better.

Zgarbas: I already found the book with double language stories your linked and I think it is a very good study material. Will be my next order very soon.

Aikynaro: I already read the "The Marvelous Village Veiled in Mist" in the past and I loved it. I got this book since is the book inspired Miazaky to create 千と千尋の神隠し. I already thought to use this book as study material too but if you said is written in not very easy japanese I think is better to use it for the future when my skill level will be better. I'll check your other suggestion regarding 'The capricious robot'. Thank you!

tashippy: What you mean with "RTK"? I guess is another book from Yoshimoto?

There's a book called 窓ぎわのとっとちゃん that's been translated into many languages. In English it's "Totto-Chan: The Little Girl at the Window."

Of the easy Japanese books I've read, this probably ranks as both easiest and most enjoyable. In fact, I was just talking with a Thai friend and Vietnamese friend who both said it was their favorite book when they were kids--in their respective languages.

I'm finally reading Yoshimoto's "Kitchen," after everyone here recommending it, but so far I'd say Totto-chan is way easier and more interesting.

Suppaman Wrote:tashippy: What you mean with "RTK"? I guess is another book from Yoshimoto?

RTK = remembering the kanji.

The Penguin Parallel text is very good, I'm using it often to sentence-mine and it's been a very rewarding read. On the same vein by the same editor, you can get "Read Real Japanese Fiction" (http://www.amazon.com/Read-Real-Japanese...1568365292) which also includes a CD with the stories being read by native speakers, and a dictionary + some grammatical explanations at the end of the book.

Just bougth remembering the kanji volumes around two months ago and I'm slowly studing it. However do you think is necessary to finish all the books before start read some other japanese books? Consider time and remainign energies after work finish both RTK books will take me a veeery long time...

RTK isn't necessary for anything - it's a very useful tool to help you make sense of the kanji, but it won't teach you how to read.

If you want to read japanese, there's no ways around actually ... you know, reading japanese. So by all means, do try - however you might hit a roadblock early on without knowing any vocabulary and such. But with a dictionary or a translation handy, you will get something out of it, that's certain.

You talk about RTK bookS (plural), which volumes do you intend on studying ? The first volume is definitely worth your time. The second, not so much, while the third might be worth it, but I'd advise against doing it right after RTK1.

I bought RTK volume 1 and 2 but latest edition. I read around voulme 3 has been written to add the "new" official kanji recently included in the list of 2015 and some additional useful. However latest editions of first 2 volumes already included this "fix" than, always from what I read, there is no need to buy the volume 3.

Unfortunately there isn't any free version on the magazine. But it is pretty cheap.
It costs lower then 500¥ on Amazon.
And the virtual version costs 4,49€ on the app store.

Edit: Since your're an beginner like me you could also check out NHK News Easy. It's an website offering easier news for people like us. It has audio and most of the time also a video. But since there aren't any translations you could use it along Long8.
When I don't understand a sentence I just post it in Long8 and someone helps me and explain it to me. I think I made an big jump in reading just a few days after I started reading NHK News Easy, so you should also check that out. (But before you start you should complete some grammar books like Genki 1+2)
After you are comfortable you could also read the original article after the easier one. Since you already know the topic and what they are talking about you should be able to understand something. (like if you watched an movie and then reading the book to it, just easier)
This isn't quite that what you are looking for but you should give it a try.

Hope I could help you a little bit.