ok let me answer that.

I don't envy his hairline.
I don't envy his jokes.
I don't envy his belly.

no I don't want to be Benny.

raharney Wrote:Benny wanders the world, learning languages, hanging out in the coolest of places. What kind of dull minded moron wouldn't want to be Benny v.whatever.

Me, because I'm extremely uncomfortable around large amounts of people and can usually only handle travel in small portions (a few weeks at a time). Sure, I'd love to travel the world (I've yet to leave the US, but I've been all across the country), but not in the same context that Benny does.

Different people have their own ideas of what is fulfilling; personally, my paradise is one where I can study whatever I want, read whatever I want, sleep whenever I want, live out in the sticks like I always have (I hate cities and suburbia) and generally have nothing to worry about in the long term. I'm actually going about making that a reality too, before anyone says that it's unrealistic.

So yeah, I'd hate to be Benny v.whatever. That's just not my thing.

sholum Wrote:

TsugiAshi Wrote:

qwertyytrewq Wrote:Who's going to be Benny 3.0?

I'll give it a whirl.

Just give me a few years to become better at Japanese, then I'll create a blog claiming that my skills were acquired in a mere 2 weeks. And yours can be too... for just the low, low price of $6,000.

You might as well throw some Khatzumoto in there too and make the price jump randomly every day.

I don't have a problem with motivational blogs, but when they claim you can do something extraordinary if you just purchase their products, it makes the whole thing rather unpleasant.

I like Khatz and the AJATT method. His blog is funny the Japanese immersion method is essentially what I'm basing some of my learning curriculum around.

Some of the elements in AJATT that I've used have personally worked for me, so I don't really have any criticisms.

People sell things at outrageous prices, too, so logically he can more or less put whatever price he wants on his content. I wouldn't necessarily buy any of the more expensive content, though, because the immersion method can pretty much be applied through one's own efforts.

AJATT seems to pretty much just be a skeleton/guideline for what to do, where as the content he sells seems to be a more defined version of those guidelines for those who want to start right then and there.

Basically AJATT itself is free. There's even an image on the site that highlights exactly what you would need to gain a decent grasp of Japanese, so I don't necessarily understand the criticisms in that regard.

TsugiAshi Wrote:[...]so I don't necessarily understand the criticisms in that regard.

Nobody cares what you think about AJATT - we've seen what people think about AJATT many times here already and are pretty much fed up with it.

It's not in the interest of this forum to have another flame war about AJATT so thread carefully.

well that was harsh.

Inny Jan Wrote:[...] so thread carefully.

I can't tell if this was supposed to be a pun or if it's just a mistake; either way, very punny.

And yeah, I shouldn't have even mentioned the name in the first place; I definitely don't want another flame war making a mess of the thread.
I've just been noticing that an increasing number of businesses have been using the unscrupulous business practices that AJATT is known for (honestly, I wouldn't have such a problem with the site otherwise), specifically the extreme artificial scarcity and rapidly increasing prices that goad people into purchasing before they can think, which is what I was alluding to in my original post.

Inny Jan Wrote:

TsugiAshi Wrote:[...]so I don't necessarily understand the criticisms in that regard.

Nobody cares what you think about AJATT - we've seen what people think about AJATT many times here already and are pretty much fed up with it.

It's not in the interest of this forum to have another flame war about AJATT so thread carefully.

I'm not really concerned with what someone thinks about my opinion in regards to AJATT. I was just responding to a person in context about AJATT. So I'm not really sure what you were intending to be antagonistic about, but it definitely wasn't warranted given the context of what I was replying to.

sholum Wrote:

Inny Jan Wrote:[...] so thread carefully.

I can't tell if this was supposed to be a pun or if it's just a mistake; either way, very punny.

And yeah, I shouldn't have even mentioned the name in the first place; I definitely don't want another flame war making a mess of the thread.
I've just been noticing that an increasing number of businesses have been using the unscrupulous business practices that AJATT is known for (honestly, I wouldn't have such a problem with the site otherwise), specifically the extreme artificial scarcity and rapidly increasing prices that goad people into purchasing before they can think, which is what I was alluding to in my original post.

I didn't actually take your reply to be an attempt at a flame war. I'm sure we're both mature and civil enough to exchange a few posts that have different views without it escalating into anything.

The other poster was just being unnecessarily antagonistic and exaggerated.

I do agree that people who change prices or charge a high amount for a service or product that says you can acquire x skill in y amount of time can be off putting. I was mostly just speaking on how the primary method of immersion detailed on the site is free and can be utilized without the need to purchase anything. Basically separating one thing from the other in that sense.

So if someone wants to experience the method, they really don't even need to buy anything from the site, etc.

Anyhoo . . . I came across an interesting interview of Benny by Peter Galante of JapanesePod101. BTW I like Benny - he has a great 'can do' attitude. If I had more of that I'd be a much better speaker. Whether its fluency in 3 months or whatever I could care less.

About AJATT, if it was free I wouldn't stand it either - a bunch of motivational crap written in a corny style. Sure, immersion works - people work, too, for many hours, so the Khatzumoto approach is usually not feasible. Yet he keeps telling you that this other method sucks, that other method sucks too, the one over there sure sucks and that anything that sounds sensible you should throw out the window. No grammar, no classes, no nothing. Then he gives some motivational bollocks and makes two or three cringeworthy jokes. He's more of a negative influence than anything.

Incidentally, what's with Japanese learning sites and boasty, awful "humour"? Everywhere from AJATT to Japanese Level Up to Kanjidamage (actually a decent site) must say "kick-ass" three times in every sentence, "baby" two or three and call some grammar term "that ***** grammar term".

sholum Wrote:I can't tell if this was supposed to be a pun or if it's just a mistake; either way, very punny.

And yeah, I shouldn't have even mentioned the name in the first place; I definitely don't want another flame war making a mess of the thread.
I've just been noticing that an increasing number of businesses have been using the unscrupulous business practices that AJATT is known for (honestly, I wouldn't have such a problem with the site otherwise), specifically the extreme artificial scarcity and rapidly increasing prices that goad people into purchasing before they can think, which is what I was alluding to in my original post.

Yeah, we didn't care about your opinion of AJATT, or the business practices thereof, back when you first mentioned it. Surprise, surprise: we still don't care now that you saw fit to expand on the subject.

poblequadrat Wrote:About AJATT, if it was free I wouldn't stand it either - a bunch of motivational crap written in a corny style. Sure, immersion works - people work, too, for many hours, so the Khatzumoto approach is usually not feasible. Yet he keeps telling you that this other method sucks, that other method sucks too, the one over there sure sucks and that anything that sounds sensible you should throw out the window. No grammar, no classes, no nothing. Then he gives some motivational bollocks and makes two or three cringeworthy jokes. He's more of a negative influence than anything.

Incidentally, what's with Japanese learning sites and boasty, awful "humour"? Everywhere from AJATT to Japanese Level Up to Kanjidamage (actually a decent site) must say "kick-ass" three times in every sentence, "baby" two or three and call some grammar term "that ***** grammar term".

This is gonna be a surprise as well, I guess, but your opinion is worth the same as the other guy's. Even less, once the subject turns to what is and isn't funny.

sholum Wrote:I don't have a problem with motivational blogs, but when they claim you can do something extraordinary if you just purchase their products, it makes the whole thing rather unpleasant.

And now you're just lying through your teeth.

Stansfield123 Wrote:

sholum Wrote:I can't tell if this was supposed to be a pun or if it's just a mistake; either way, very punny.

And yeah, I shouldn't have even mentioned the name in the first place; I definitely don't want another flame war making a mess of the thread.
I've just been noticing that an increasing number of businesses have been using the unscrupulous business practices that AJATT is known for (honestly, I wouldn't have such a problem with the site otherwise), specifically the extreme artificial scarcity and rapidly increasing prices that goad people into purchasing before they can think, which is what I was alluding to in my original post.

Yeah, we didn't care about your opinion of AJATT, or the business practices thereof, back when you first mentioned it. Surprise, surprise: we still don't care now that you saw fit to expand on the subject.

poblequadrat Wrote:About AJATT, if it was free I wouldn't stand it either - a bunch of motivational crap written in a corny style. Sure, immersion works - people work, too, for many hours, so the Khatzumoto approach is usually not feasible. Yet he keeps telling you that this other method sucks, that other method sucks too, the one over there sure sucks and that anything that sounds sensible you should throw out the window. No grammar, no classes, no nothing. Then he gives some motivational bollocks and makes two or three cringeworthy jokes. He's more of a negative influence than anything.

Incidentally, what's with Japanese learning sites and boasty, awful "humour"? Everywhere from AJATT to Japanese Level Up to Kanjidamage (actually a decent site) must say "kick-ass" three times in every sentence, "baby" two or three and call some grammar term "that ***** grammar term".

This is gonna be a surprise as well, I guess, but your opinion is worth the same as the other guy's. Even less, once the subject turns to what is and isn't funny.

sholum Wrote:I don't have a problem with motivational blogs, but when they claim you can do something extraordinary if you just purchase their products, it makes the whole thing rather unpleasant.

And now you're just lying through your teeth.

I'll take it that your command of the English equivalent of keigo isn't good. Maybe there's an Avoid Extreme Rudeness SRS deck around somewhere.

Stansfield123 Wrote:[Poor troll attempt here. No, it's not important enough to be directly quoted.]

Trollol. What's next, a Rick-roll? Go back to the YouTube comments.

Has anyone visited the AJAAT website lately? Since we mentioned it in this thread I thought I'd check out it for the first time in a long time.

He's still writing new entries on his blog. Either he is a genius that a mere mortal such as myself cannot comprehend his wisdom, or he writes a lot of fluff.

The writings have the usual life-coaching tone which is not to my taste and the usual khatzumoto humor which was amusing in 2006 but it would be surely old by now.

Here's a funny blog entry: http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/couch-potato

What's funny about it is that this is uber-beginner-Japanese life coaching tips. It's like the first entry/post in any Japanese language learning blog, in AJAAT's case, a blog from 2006 rewritten in 2014.

And in case we aren't clear on AJAAT's stance on learning Japanese (from the above link):

Quote:let’s get down to the quick and dirty. Let’s get you to where you can:
Enjoy raw anime
Read raw manga
Live in a state of pure awesomeness

And let’s get you there fast, all by literally — literally — sitting on your relatively plump backside, watching anime and being a couch potato. No studying. Not even kanji studying. No effort. No memorization. No boredom. No pain. All gain.

No study. This is barely any different from losing weight by doing nothing or becoming a millionaire by throwing money at seminars.

This is as bad as Benny's "Fluent in 3 months" claim. I've seen near-complete beginners try immersing themselves in a pokemon game. Their attempts were complete failures.

Anyway, I wasted enough time on this website and I blame you people for mentioning it. Even if someone thinks reading AJAAT is helpful, they will eventually reach the point of diminishing returns: in the beginning, reading AJAAT is useful and help facilitates your learning of Japanese until the point where the marginal return of reading AJAAT is less than the gain from actually studying Japanese.

It's like this forum (or any Internet website): in the time it took to write this post, I could have done 100 Anki reviews and the gain from doing 100 Anki reviews and solidifying my memory of Kanji is greater than the gain from the enjoyment of badmouthing AJAAT.

Perhaps that's why mentioning AJAAT on this forum is unofficially not allowed: there is no utility to be derived from discussing such a thing. It's just a distraction from doing something else useful.

Note: the above post was written in jest though truthfully.

sholum & poblequadrat Wrote:

stansfield123 Wrote:garbage

um, what?

ya seriously can someone put a muzzle on that guy please.

to return from a banned topic to an on-topic topic...
I listened to the Benny & Peter Galante interview. It was like watching two snake-oil salesmen naked and covered in their own snake oil, writhing all over each other.

Why are you all bringing the whole AJATT chaos up again? Qwerty you've been around, why waste your time?

poblequadrat Wrote:I'll take it that your command of the English equivalent of keigo isn't good. Maybe there's an Avoid Extreme Rudeness SRS deck around somewhere.

My response was much kinder than what I was responding to. Precisely because I'm a polite person. If I wasn't, you'd learn just how little I think of people who behave like you.

dtcamero Wrote:

sholum & poblequadrat Wrote:

stansfield123 Wrote:garbage

um, what?

ya seriously can someone put a muzzle on that guy please.

to return from a banned topic to an on-topic topic...
I listened to the Benny & Peter Galante interview. It was like watching two snake-oil salesmen naked and covered in their own snake oil, writhing all over each other.

That seems a bit unnecessary. I looked up snake oil in Wikipedia:

Snake oil is an expression that originally referred to fraudulent health products or unproven medicine but has come to refer to any product with questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit. By extension, a snake oil salesman is someone who knowingly sells fraudulent goods or who is himself or herself a fraud, quack, charlatan, and the like.

I don't know about Benny (though I like his positive approach) but I know for a fact that Peter Galante is not selling snake oil. I have been using his JapanesePod101 site for over a year now. It has hundreds of lessons (possibly over a thousand) running from complete beginner to advanced. There are notes for each lesson explaining the grammar they are looking at and giving the kanji and sample sentences and you can listen to the dialogues line by line. They also give the dialogue in kanji, romaji and an english translation.

That isn't snake oil so what's with the negativity?

PS I have no connection with JapanesePod except as a subscriber.

[Zgarbas]

I love Jpod101 podcasts...
When they don't feature Peter.

Also, let's be honest, the podcasts are good because we went in, got a free trial and downloaded them. As a paid product they're not that good.

Actually the best stuff is when you subscribe for premium membership. Some people seem so thrilled to be getting something for nothing they miss the good stuff. The notes, vocabulary lists, sample sentences and line by line audio, review track and all that really make a difference at least for me. No idea why you don't like Peter. I really admire what he has achieved with the website. It clearly took a lot of guts and hard work to create from a standing start.

[Zgarbas]

The jokes, his Japanese, his input is a waste of time. Jpod101 got really good once the lower/upper intermediate phase hit, peter left the stage and the podcast was overtaken by Japanese girls.

Oh well it is all a matter of taste I guess. I'd just mention that after the first ten or so lessons (can't remember exactly but it was quite early on) he stopped doing his half of the dialogues and it was purely japanese speakers from then on even though he was hosting. I am guessing he was running around doing everything in the early days of the start up and hadn't figured out he needed to use only japanese speakers for the dialogues. Also I suspect his japanese is not quite as lame as he makes out in the show - I learned from the interview with Benny that he did his masters in Japanese. I like his jokes but that is no reason anyone else should!

I actually like that guy and enjoyed every show he appeared in. Too bad that he left the Upper Intermediate sessions to other guys. Couldn't stand them at all, except for Natsuko and Naomi.

I know exactly what you mean. Peter seems to use a script where some of the others just read from it. The difference comes across. I quite liked that Scottish lady (Kat?).

Haha! That brings back happy memories of working my way through their lessons and grimacing at Peter's jokes. Oh dear. Actually, some friends of mine did some part time work at JPod101 offices a couple of years ago, and said he was quite a nice guy.

I think for what it is, JapanesePod101 is a reasonable product, if annoyingly advertised (seems they have toned it down a bit tho), and a lot of work has gone into the content provided. Not a bad resource if you can extract the goodness judiciously.

I'm just not sure about why we want to take class room style lessons with us to the internet. The internet is functioning as the delivery vessel for content which is still really similar to what would be happening in a class. Vocab points. Grammar points. Kanji. A dialogue. It's comfortable and approachable, but the power of the internet remains underutilized. Lingq.com is a better example of what can be done now that could not be done before. You can make "links" of definitions to words in the text you are reading and listening to on the fly, and hence you don't even need artificially made "dialogues" about people moving to Tokyo etc.. You just listen to whatever interests you. The problem with 101Pod style content is that it is too restrictive, too artificial. But learners are used to that, and kind of expect it. With lessons everything goes along OK, until they get to the "advanced lessons", and then run out of lessons, and then.... ?? But I guess I'm preaching to the choir on that.

EDIT:
Oh yeah, AJATT!!!!! *rabble rabble rabble*