Hey, what happens if someone learns an vocabulary wrong. (false meaning)
Let's say I learnd 15 of my 5.000 vocabulary wrong. Will I every notice it? Will I forever u derstand the sentences where the word appers wrong?

For me, I think that when you are at the level where you really read a lot, so you encounter the word a lot of times, then your head maybe automatically know what the correct meaning is. But for someone who don't read that much and maybe sees the word only 1 time per month, that he wont be able to "fix" it.

What do you think?
Did you have that kind of situation where you noticed, that something with word X isn't correct and relearnd the meaning?

15 out of 5000 won't make much of a difference, just relearn the word. It would of course be a little more effort and you might mistake it a few times because you are used to learning the wrong vocabulary, but eventually you will beat the old definition out. Make flashcards for them if it really bugs you

And chances are, if you barely see the word, then you will barely have a need for it anyway. Although it's still best to have an understanding of it

You're describing language acquisition in general, second, foreign, or not. Do you think kids are automatically imbued with the correct definition for every new word they encounter as they grow up? Do you think adults quizzed on the street would be correct 100% of the time about every word they think they know? Of course not, and we're native speakers. What you're describing isn't just natural but unavoidable.

if you don't read much then you won't become very proficient.
I think that not being proficient is going to be a bigger problem than the 15 words.

He4rtl3ss Wrote:What do you think?
Did you have that kind of situation where you noticed, that something with word X isn't correct and relearnd the meaning?

All the time. We constantly improve our understandings of words as we find them in context when we're exposed to the language.

If you learn a word wrong, and you are constantly exposed to the language, when you encounter the word again and again and it is being used in a ways unfamiliar with your current understanding, you are probably going to notice and your brain should slowly adjust. I think. Anyway, I'm no expert.

[Zgarbas]

I get it all the time. There are words which I've seen a million times and I still wouldn't really know how to use it in a sentence. It happens.

By the way, quite on-topic, you can't use the word "vocabulary" like that =).

yea, like everyone else said. Also, I don't spend too much effort on learning the "exact" meaning of a Japanese word in english, because the feeling and usage will be subtly different in Japanese. The subtle differences will become more apparent as you are exposed to the word in different contexts.

I look at it like making a sculpture. First, you rough in the shape generally, and then you gradually refine the shape with more and more detail as you work.

it's as you said. either you notice it or you dont encountter it again so you don't realize it. another possibility is that the definition you learned is correct but the word has another meaning or it's another word with the same pronunciation but different kanji.

recently it happened to me with nashikuzushiteki.
the first time i looked it up i learned the meaning for nasikuzushi. its meaning sorta matched the situation so i thought that was the correct meaning and i just didn't really get it. later on, i encounter it again and i remembered the meaning i learned and it feels off so i look it up and somebody on chiebukuro said nasikuzushi and nashikuzushiteki mean 2 different things. so when i thought about the 2 sentences with the nashikuzushitekki meaning it makes sense for both situations more so than the definition for nashikuzushi. so from the first time I looked it up to now about 2 years passed? lol. the other meaning wasn't so obviously wrong that it just went unnoticed till i was like it feels a little weird let's look it up to be sure.

Zgarbas Wrote:I get it all the time. There are words which I've seen a million times and I still wouldn't really know how to use it in a sentence. It happens.

By the way, quite on-topic, you can't use the word "vocabulary" like that =).

i don't think that's what the person is asking. isn't he asking about recognition/comprehension?

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

[Zgarbas]

howtwosavealif3 Wrote:

Zgarbas Wrote:I get it all the time. There are words which I've seen a million times and I still wouldn't really know how to use it in a sentence. It happens.

By the way, quite on-topic, you can't use the word "vocabulary" like that =).

i don't think that's what the person is asking. isn't he asking about recognition/comprehension?

It's still wrong usage of a pretty basic term. It should count.

would also be nice I think to introduce the idea of a multivalency in the meaning of a word. no one really learns a word correctly the first time, but rather a simplistic definition that acts as a placeholder, like a heisig keyword. the real meaning can only be flushed out over time through exposure.

I disagree. First time I learned words like 車、悲しみ、人間力測定, I knew exactly what they meant, and the meanings don't ever get much clearer. I'd argue that your "idea" actually refers to words rarely encountered, which are developed by context.

Kuzunoha13 Wrote:I disagree. First time I learned words like 車、悲しみ、人間力測定, I knew exactly what they meant, and the meanings don't ever get much clearer. I'd argue that your "idea" actually refers to words rarely encountered, which are developed by context.

Those words are all pretty simple concepts that match up well with their English counterparts. What about words with very slight differences in meaning and/or nuance?

For example, why is it that when you ask a Japanese person what their favorite English word is, they will often answer with something like "Never give up" .. ?
It's because native English speakers know that "word" means just one word, one vocabulary, but many Japanese people have learned that word = 言葉 and, in this context, 言葉 can mean "word" OR (something like) "phrase". If you tell those people that this is, in fact, wrong, and that the English word "word" refers to a single vocabulary, they'll probably be able to change fairly quickly. And so...

Getting back to the main question of the thread. I don't think it's a big deal. I mean, if you commit to memory 車 = cat, 空 = orangutan, 海 = handgun then you're maaaaybe in trouble. But I can't imagine anyone doing that. Some words you may never realize are slightly off until someone tells you. Others you'll come across enough to figure out that your initial idea was a little off. Either way, as long as you go on to actually use the language I think things will straighten themselves out for the most part.

Thanks for all the replies.
I think I was just too afraid, that I would maybe learn a few words wrong and then that I would never be able to get the real meaning of them.

Thanks it really helped me!

drdunlap Wrote:

Kuzunoha13 Wrote:I disagree. First time I learned words like 車、悲しみ、人間力測定, I knew exactly what they meant, and the meanings don't ever get much clearer. I'd argue that your "idea" actually refers to words rarely encountered, which are developed by context.

Those words are all pretty simple concepts that match up well with their English counterparts. What about words with very slight differences in meaning and/or nuance?

For example, why is it that when you ask a Japanese person what their favorite English word is, they will often answer with something like "Never give up" .. ?
It's because native English speakers know that "word" means just one word, one vocabulary, but many Japanese people have learned that word = 言葉 and, in this context, 言葉 can mean "word" OR (something like) "phrase". If you tell those people that this is, in fact, wrong, and that the English word "word" refers to a single vocabulary, they'll probably be able to change fairly quickly. And so...

Getting back to the main question of the thread. I don't think it's a big deal. I mean, if you commit to memory 車 = cat, 空 = orangutan, 海 = handgun then you're maaaaybe in trouble. But I can't imagine anyone doing that. Some words you may never realize are slightly off until someone tells you. Others you'll come across enough to figure out that your initial idea was a little off. Either way, as long as you go on to actually use the language I think things will straighten themselves out for the most part.

I can understand where you're coming from. But when dtcamero said "no one really learns a word correctly for the first time", it felt to me that it was too absolute a statement. From my experiences, the majority of words are "simple concepts", compared to ones the fewer that aren't. To give a personal example of the latter, I learned 大変だよ！ means something like "There's trouble!" lending a negative connotation, so when I encountered 大変興味がある, I assumed it was along the lines of "Not at all interested", which isn't the case. BUT this kind of situation is actually pretty rare.