Why do people feel the need to use GW Bush or Condolezza Rice in their stories? I understand that traumatic experiences and current events can be easier to remember for many members, but don't they see that their mnemonics are going to become obsolete within a year?

It's not about being respectful (I'm positive about mocking the leaders we have to suffer), but about the utility of those stories on the long term and its usefulness for other people. News and fads become old really quickly, and I think using those stories can backfire later.

I think changing those specific persons to more generic personalities (president of Freedonia, for example) would be better overall for all people, including those that don't want to see political issues during their free time.

This post can also be applied to stories including fads, rap stars, and latest movies.

I think in the long-term the stories and later the keywords are meant to just drop away anyway, so it shouldn't really matter. Personally I didn't use many timely stories, but I can understand why people do. On the other hand, it's rather depressing to think that five years down the road you might see a kanji and suddenly have one of those less favourable personalities pop into your head, just when you thought you had rid them from your memory forever!

Well in the case of Condi Rice, it helps that her name matches actual meaning of rice 米　and also hints at the alternative meaning of America.

Condi Rice has a lot more meaning to me than many other popular story elements. For example, I know "the Flash" and that he can run fast...but I've never read a Flash comic and I don't know why he can run fast (powers from the Earth's yellow sun? Bit by a really fast spider? Radiation exposure? I dunno. I'm gonna have to hit up Flash's wikipedia page after this!)

Whereas I know a lot more about Condi Rice and thus have stronger mental connections to make for those stories. And I'm fairly certain I won't forget her in a year.

So I think it is about what works for you personally. I'm a political junkie, so Condi Rice works well for me. But if it isn't your cup of tea, you could certainly use something else.

DrJones Wrote:I understand that traumatic experiences and current events can be easier to remember for many members, but don't they see that their mnemonics are going to become obsolete within a year?

I wonder if the average Iraqi will have forgotten about George Bush within a year...The ones that are still alive, that is!

Caution. It's not "forgetting", it is "becoming obsolete".

Also, as far as I know, Iraqi are happy to be liberated from Saddam. Iraqi are also unhappy that they are being killed by fellow muslims that should be helping them. Muslims overall don't hate USA any less than before 11-M. George Bush is still an idiot, and the illuminati want to conquer the world.

But that's not the point of the thread. It's about thinking if certain memory associations tied to recent news can be bad in the long term, and if so, pointing it to people before it's too late.

DrJones Wrote:Caution. It's not "forgetting", it is "becoming obsolete".

Also, as far as I know, Iraqi are happy to be liberated from Saddam. Iraqi are also unhappy that they are being killed by fellow muslims that should be helping them. Muslims overall don't hate USA any less than before 11-M.

Well, I think we've come to the core of why the political stories bother you so much, and it's that you feel this way. If they were all jabs about Clinton, I suspect we wouldn't have heard a peep out of you. That's just my personal suspicion, of course -- I can't be certain, nor do I pretend that I am.

The simple truth is, the words "Bush" and "Iraq" are going to produce fairly robust images and emotions in the minds of almost ANYONE in the WORLD at this point (we've got a pretty International user base, I think). This is true, regardless of where you stand politically ... I've yet to meet the person that felt indifferently about the Iraq war, and the Bush administration. They either despise the man and the invasion, or they positively love him.

This sort of emotional and intellectual connection is extremely valuable in producing the sorts of impactful stories that the Heisig method requires. Why so many political stories? Because they work, would be my guess ... just like the naughty ones.

The short answer is -- and I mean this as an answer to all the talk about the sexually suggestive stories, too -- if you find a story offensive, the best thing to do is STOP READING IT, and move on. I honestly don't think any one member (or GROUP of members ,even) is in any sort of position to try and inflict censorship on the rest of the community, simply so they don't have to endure split-second exposures to ideas that they don't like.

dukelexon: Huh? Who's trying to censor who? Did I show anywhere that I'm offended by the use of political topics on stories? The most close is the sentence when I say that changing the names would (obviously) also make the site more friendly to all those that don't want to read these kind of stories.

Did I offended you because I told that the Illuminati want to conquer the world? I made the above point only to illustrate that the real word is not black-white, and of course, nothing like what you see on TV; and that goes for both views, no matter how popular yours (or mine) could be. I used sarcasm to weaken my argument even more, because I don't want people to take it seriously. Discussing politics is anyways a complete waste of time, when we could use it to something more productive, like learning japanese.

Don't dismiss my concerns due to a perceived bias. It's not the case, and I'm not offended at all for these stories. It's just that I feel that tying stories to current events isn't wise, and I fear that the benefits of sharing them will fade greatly in the not-so-distant future.

Edit: just to soften even more my message

This was always going to end up an issue with sharing stories. Hesig says to make the stories as crazy as possible to help remember them and so people are going to use people and things that really stick in their heads.
Like a lot of places on the internet, everyone is different and so everyone's stories are (and should) be different. If a story offends you, or as the OP thinks will become obsolete in a few years, then just skip it and find one you do want to use, or make your own and share it for others. All this time spent debating the pro/cons of things like this is time you should spend learning/reviewing something...!

DrJones Wrote:Why do people feel the need to use GW Bush or Condolezza Rice in their stories? I understand that traumatic experiences and current events can be easier to remember for many members, but don't they see that their mnemonics are going to become obsolete within a year?

To address the original question (got hostile in here quick). I think the mnemonics are not supposed to stick around for ever, rather to give way to intuitive understanding of the characters meaning and eventually native level comfort and use. With that in mind, I think pop and political references are fine. Although, it may have the unwanted side-effect of locking some pop element you may want to forget (READ BORAT ((sorry synewave))) in a year or two into your permanent memory.

I don't think the actions of the US's present politicians will be forgotten anytime soon. So I don't think stories involving them will become obsolete too quickly

JimmySeal Wrote:I don't think the actions of the US's present politicians will be forgotten anytime soon. So I don't think stories involving them will become obsolete too quickly

dukelexon Wrote:This sort of emotional and intellectual connection is extremely valuable in producing the sorts of impactful stories that the Heisig method requires. Why so many political stories? Because they work, would be my guess ... just like the naughty ones.

Johnzep Wrote:Condi Rice has a lot more meaning to me than many other popular story elements. For example, I know "the Flash" and that he can run fast...but I've never read a Flash comic and I don't know why he can run fast (powers from the Earth's yellow sun? Bit by a really fast spider? Radiation exposure? I dunno.

Agree * 3

Now for a thread hijack...talking of Borat, I remember he wanted to do something like this!

八街市職員、盗撮目的でトイレ侵入

千葉県八街市の職員が、盗撮目的でコンビニエンスストアのトイレに侵入したとして逮捕されました。

　建造物侵入の疑いで逮捕されたのは、千葉県八街市の職員、秋葉健治容疑者（３０）です。

　秋葉容疑者は去年１０月、八街市内のコンビニエンスストアに客を装って入店し、盗撮目的でトイレ内に侵入した疑いが持たれています。

　秋葉容疑者は、レンズの直径が２センチの小型カメラを芳香剤のパッケージにビニールテープで固定したうえ、駐車場に停めた車の中で動画を録画していたということです。

　調べに対して、秋葉容疑者は容疑を認めた上で、「趣味で見ていた」と供述しています。警察は、秋葉容疑者の自宅から盗撮した動画を収めたとみられるＤＶＤおよそ１００枚を押収しています。

　秋葉容疑者が勤務していた八街市役所は、「職員が不祥事を起こしたことは誠に遺憾であり、市民の方々に心よりお詫び申し上げます」とコメントしています。

http://news.tbs.co.jp/newseye/tbs_newseye3785297.html

Borat Wrote:Can I put camera in ladies toilet? ... NO ... why not??

[Katsuo]

I wonder how early users of RTK are doing with their Jimmy Carter and Cyrus Vance stories.

I fought alongside Heisig in 'Nam, and when we came back to America, the hippies spat on us. James was never the same after that, he became a reclusive alcoholic who preferred kanji over people. His vile contempt for the 'left wing establishment' fueled him to write Remembering the Kanji. He came up with some of the most obscene Carter/Vance stories you could think of. Unfortunately, these were later edited out in favor of "PC" versions. I guess the scent of money caused old Heisig to betray his soldier brethren. I hope that sellout enjoys rolling around in his giant money bin because it won't ever win him back his soul.

This thread really makes me want me to rewrite my story for 渉 ford, and somehow include (obsolete) President Ford.

Katsuo Wrote:I wonder how early users of RTK are doing with their Jimmy Carter and Cyrus Vance stories.

I lol'd

To be honest, I have yet to use any of the Condi Rice stories as I like the USA image for its use instead (the ASTRAY on the ROAD to the USA song by the Bruce Springsteen for example). In addition, some mnemonics are emotionally shocking (gross, lewd or whatever) but not visually shocking which is what Heisig urges you to strive for. The Keyword needs to illicit a visual picture or image that you then can grasp the primitives from to post down the story (initially) while later it's Keyword to just the primitives.

As is pointed out, using current figures are topical and lead to the story becoming outdated. Next year, quite a few are going to forget Condi Rice (George Bush will stick in memory for quite a while). Such is political memory.

All that said, I hope people will not abuse the story area to expouse political views. It's very easy to edit a tale to put it at the top for higher chance of being seen. If it truly is related to helping at least the author remember that kanji, then nothing wrong with sharing. Nothing stops anyone from ignoring it (or better yet, just remember all the kanji to make it a moot point. heh heh).

[Katsuo]

laner36 Wrote:This thread really makes me want me to rewrite my story for 渉 ford, and somehow include (obsolete) President Ford.

President Ford is explaining the origins of his name on TV. He crosses a ford in a river, saying, "Ford -- a place where you can walk through the water", and promptly falls in (because he was chewing gum at the same time).

I'd like to agree with some of the other posters in the thread... Bush and Iraq will not be forgotten anytime soon. We're still talking/hearing about Vietnam, right?

I've also always found it odd that many of the Americans that I know seem to like to forget political happenings and government scandals right away, as if not remembering them somehow makes them not as scandalous... while the rest of the world kind of sits back in horror, mouths agape. *shrug*

Or maybe I'm just biased because they all live south of me, and I always have to vehemently deny accusations that I'm a Yank when I travel, since everyone hears the accent and seems to forget about the good people of old Soviet Canuckistan. *shrug* *shrug*

Oh, and... I *have* read The Flash comics, and watched a short lived TV show about The Flash... i just assumed that other people using those stories (or the chuck norris ones, or whatever) were other people who have strong images of those characters. I'm intrigued by the idea of anchoring a kanji story to something which isn't already anchored in your mind's eye.

I hope this post doesn't sound to random/off-topic/whatever. it's early, and my eyes hurt...

I believe G. Gordon Liddy would have been made into a good primitive back in the day.

Nukemarine Wrote:In addition, some mnemonics are emotionally shocking (gross, lewd or whatever) but not visually shocking which is what Heisig urges you to strive for. The Keyword needs to illicit a visual picture or image...

V. good point.

Nukemarine Wrote:As is pointed out, using current figures are topical and lead to the story becoming outdated. Next year, quite a few are going to forget Condi Rice (George Bush will stick in memory for quite a while). Such is political memory.

I dunno, I can imagine good Nixon stories, and I've used Teddy Roosevelt too. If it's about visual memory, some of these politicians are a cartoonist's dream. We forget their policies and scandals (no one talking about the election seems to remember Whitewater, for instance) but remember all their atavistic quirks that endear them to people who draw for a living.

Now stories about Japanese politicians, you might as well be using a grey washcloth for your image.

billyclyde Wrote:Now stories about Japanese politicians, you might as well be using a grey washcloth for your image.

The only stories about Japanese politicians that arrive here is when they throw chairs at each other.

Bush and his bunch have been on tv every day for the past 8 years. The name Bush resonates even further back thanks to his wonderful daddy. Both have tried to turn the world into a safer, cleaner and friendlier place. How can they not be included in our stories?
This being said, I think I only used Bush once.
I wish there were a kanji were I could have Mr T duel with Bush.

[ファブリス]

In the end it's still about emotional value. I don't relate to politics much, so even Bush doesn't inspire me at all for making kanji stories. But that wouldn't surprise much anyone who read some of my public stories... I'm trying to stick my feet firmly in the ground these days as I see no value in day dreaming, but that doesn't have to limit creative imagination in any way.

DrJones Wrote:The only stories about Japanese politicians that arrive here is when they throw chairs at each other.

I must admit, I've seen them wrestle sometimes. And one member of the Diet is a pro wrestler who won't take off his Tiger Mask.