Tzadeck Wrote:And of course, here you censor the J word, and not Brit.

I censored it because I was afraid it'll get deleted, I wouldn't censor it otherwise. The "J-word" is a bit of an over-exaggeration. Would you call Jerry the J-word? Would you call Jew the J-word? Would you call Heinie the H-word? Would you call Yank the Y-word? There is no need to be that over-sensitive and politically correct about everything.

Tzadeck Wrote:Historical context [...] [is] the reason one of those words is considered bad, and the other simply curt.

That's why I said it shouldn't be, but alas... History did its part in making a simple, logical and innocent abbreviation offensive.

Tzadeck Wrote:And you won't find internet threads about the word Brit being offensive, because it's not.

And likewise, you will find internet threads about Japan where "J*p" is used in an non-offensive manner by people who are unaware of its history because the abbreviation is as logical as calling Scottish people Scots.

To be honest, J*p is quite an ugly abbreviation anyway. Not sorry to see it only on rare occasions. Brit on the other hand has something likable about it. Boozy brits abroad and so on.

toshiromiballza Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:And of course, here you censor the J word, and not Brit.

I censored it because I was afraid it'll get deleted, I wouldn't censor it otherwise. The "J-word" is a bit of an over-exaggeration. Would you call Jerry the J-word? Would you call Jew the J-word? Would you call Heinie the H-word? Would you call Yank the Y-word? There is no need to be that over-sensitive and politically correct about everything.

Exactly. I have complex opinions about the N-word, and I think I should type the actual word and not 'N-word', but I do the abbreviation anyway because I know that a lot of people might consider it inappropriate (and they don't know my argument as to why I think it should be written in full). And I don't like being so politically correct about everything either. Usually I'm arguing your side, but I'm arguing the opposite because some people don't even seem to get that the J-word IS indeed a racial slur. There's no argument about whether or not it is--it is. Whether or not you should be able to 'mention' it is another manner--you definitely should be able to.

Back on topic. I'd like to hear more about Chinese people coming from anti-Japan households who learn Japanese and the reactions.

I was on reddit (warning: reading this might make you hate humanity): http://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/1..._conflict/

Quote:I have been arguing with people here about these issues for a
while now, and more frequently in the last three days. The thing is,
for me, this issue is personal. I have lived in China for the last 10
years. China is my and my wife's economic niche. However my
children hold Japanese as well as American passports; my wife is
a Japanese citizen.
I have heard Chinese people say stupid shit about Japan for 10
years now. And for me, it just makes me... disappointed. On the
other hand, my wife just takes the Chinese side and says she is
sorry for what Japan did to China. This makes me very mad, as
she had nothing to do with what Japan did and she does not
represent Japan and I think it is wrong for her to let others define
her as a representative of Japan. If some of you people do not
understand this, let me turn it around for you: if a Chinese tourist
goes to the USA and spits on the floor and defecates on a bus, I
would NOT say that the tourist is a representative of China and I
would publicly call out and humiliate any fellow American who
tried to make that tourist a representative of China.
(END BACKGROUND)
So... getting to the personal issue here. My best friend here is
newly married to a Chinese girl. Not exactly a "Rainy" as CCJ
people would say. She is an agreeable countryside girl who
worked hard, got educated (somewhat) and improved her live. A
little while ago my friend and his wife were over at my house for
brunch. My Japanese wife made food for us, but then she went
out with the kids to take them to their friends house. I was talking
with my friend about politics, which we often do. We started
talking about the China - Japan conflict. And then my friend's wife
said (in Chinese):
I hate Japanese people. I hate what they did to China and they can
never be forgiven.
I said "Don't you mean you hate what those people in the past
did? Surely you don't hate Japanese people today?"
She said:
No, I hate Japanese people. They are responsible for what
happened.
She said this to me, in my house, as she ate the food my wife
prepared for her. And then I thought about slapping her in her
face, grabbing her hair, and throwing her out the door. Didn't do
that though. I smiled and changed the subject. My friend knew I
was mad, but just said "You know... stupid Chinese girl.". Yeah. I
know.
But that went beyond what I can handle. Although we were nice to
her and welcoming, she decided that my wife is partially
responsible for crimes against her people. And the thing is, this is
the attitude that many Chinese people my wife and I meet have.
Polite and friendly. They think well of themselves because they are
polite. But actually they look down on my wife. Not just
countryside-educated people either. Ultra-rich board housewives
(who go on shopping sprees in Japan) at the children's play
groups. Some of her co-workers too (I would fire my employees if
they were that dis-respectful to my children and wife).
So now, I don't let friend's wife into my house. I don't go to my
friend's house. I talk to my friend about his wife, only because of
Chinese-wife-issues (she demands friend give money to her
parents in the countryside, which causes my friend to need to
drink and hence he calls me to drink with him).
So my question is, how would you deal with this situation?

Male Chinese Japan-haters are a dime a dozen so it was interesting to hear from an anti-Japan female.

Quite an interesting story, but that Chinese woman has some nerve to make such a statement and even more, if she knew his wife was Japanese.

Living in Korea, I'm often a bit hesitant to tell people I'm studying Japanese. No one really tries to discourage me from studying the language per se, but many people do see it as an opportunity to tell me how much they hate Japan and why. Unfortunately, the proselytizing usually makes me less motivated to learn Korean, not Japanese.

weatherman Wrote:Living in Korea, I'm often a bit hesitant to tell people I'm studying Japanese. No one really tries to discourage me from studying the language per se, but many people do see it as an opportunity to tell me how much they hate Japan and why. Unfortunately, the proselytizing usually makes me less motivated to learn Korean, not Japanese.

I've read interesting stories and watched videos showing examples of Korea and the institutionalized anti-Japan sentiment (we're talking China levels of hatred) but we'll save it for a different thread.

To be honest, there's not much to be liked about Japan's history, about the political idiosyncrasy of contemporary Japan, about Japanese companies, and about Japanese media and its mind-numbing consumerism. Contemporary Japan didn't invade China - but it's still a rather nationalist country, as are China and Korea.

Japan, though, is seductive, and learning Japanese is a way of breaking free from it - you take that seduction, turn it into something positive and take control of it. It's a cure against having bitten into Japanese marketing.

So, I don't hate Japan and it does appeal to me, but in many ways it is a bleak country. The thought of Harajuku youths, tarento shows, political dynasties, the pains of salarymen and workers, their ignorance of other countries... it's everything I stand against. I guess that's as close as you'll get to finding a Japan-hater studying Japanese.