TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:I'm looking to get into using the logic to solve problems instead of mostly learning syntax.

tokyostyle Wrote:In order to learn actually program, or the logic of programming as Aikynaro put it above, you'll want a design patterns book. [...] Head First Design Patterns is a lot more beginner friendly.

That's a Java based book but any book that teaches the "Gang of Four" is what you want. The original book is C++ based which is a really crappy OO language compared to modern stuff. (C++ programmer for more than 20 years now...)

Xanpakuto Wrote:So I'm getting the book learning ruby the hard way. Hopefully it will be helpful! I'm sure programmers actually forget syntax once on awhile. So do they have a reference at hand usually?

Google + Stackoverflow is, I think, a good 'reference' for finding what you need to do, what libraries need what etc. Depending on the language, there are some documentations online like http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/ for Java, http://www.cplusplus.com/ for C++ etc. Also, you might want to save some useful codes (which other programs also need) you did later on so that you may use it in other programs/systems. I think the term for it is reusability in oop. Maybe like your own method for searching a txt file/db & checking if it exists/or not for login/ etc.

TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:I'm looking to get into using the logic to solve problems instead of mostly learning syntax.

I did a bunch of exercises on talentbuddy.co, anyone else tried it? Can you recommend something similar?

http://projecteuler.net/ this one?

tokyostyle Wrote:That's a Java based book but any book that teaches the "Gang of Four" is what you want. The original book is C++ based which is a really crappy OO language compared to modern stuff. (C++ programmer for more than 20 years now...)

It may be in C++, which may be "dated" by today's terms, but the language shouldn't impact what the main focus of the book is, which is showing off different design patterns and giving names to them.

I own that Head First book, and while its a new, modern take on the patterns, it does lack some.

I think patterns are overkill for a beginner. If you want to casually learn about them anyway, check out http://sourcemaking.com/ The refactoring material is also good to get into at some point.

I'd recommend Practical Object-Oriented Design in Ruby: An Agile Primer as a first step into the world of design. It'll walk you through the SOLID principles and many other modern programming concepts, so that after finishing you may understand the problems that patterns are attempting to solve.

I wouldn't really bother with any of this stuff while you don't understand concepts like loops and inheritance though. Write some scripts that do things, screw around with irb, learn to understand code and start trying to read other people's.

tokyostyle Wrote:

tokyostyle Wrote:In order to learn actually program, or the logic of programming as Aikynaro put it above, you'll want a design patterns book. [...] Head First Design Patterns is a lot more beginner friendly.

That's a Java based book but any book that teaches the "Gang of Four" is what you want. The original book is C++ based which is a really crappy OO language compared to modern stuff. (C++ programmer for more than 20 years now...)

It's nice to have some confirmation that Head First is a good option because it seemed almost too ridiculous and childish to get through Java is what I mean to get into now as I just started doing OO with it in university after doing some structure based in c++, so that's good, thanks.

BlackIce Wrote:http://projecteuler.net/ this one?

Nice. Probably too much for me at this point as I got stuck at even the second most solved exercise, but thanks.

jimeux Wrote:I think patterns are overkill for a beginner. If you want to casually learn about them anyway, check out http://sourcemaking.com/ The refactoring material is also good to get into at some point.

I'd recommend Practical Object-Oriented Design in Ruby: An Agile Primer as a first step into the world of design. It'll walk you through the SOLID principles and many other modern programming concepts, so that after finishing you may understand the problems that patterns are attempting to solve.

I wouldn't really bother with any of this stuff while you don't understand concepts like loops and inheritance though. Write some scripts that do things, screw around with irb, learn to understand code and start trying to read other people's.

I do feel like I can start moving on from being a beginner as far as the general basic syntax is concerned, but you may be right in the fact that I should play around and expose myself to real code more. That's why I've been liking sites like talentbuddy and codeacademy. I'm programming in the university so I'll see where it takes me and when I can branch off seriously to complement it.

jimeux Wrote:I think patterns are overkill for a beginner. If you want to casually learn about them anyway, check out http://sourcemaking.com/ The refactoring material is also good to get into at some point.

Thanks for that link. I like the layout and the way the material is presented. I agree that patterns are maybe a bit overkill, but I guess the big question is what path is right when people start making their own projects. Is stumbling around in the dark before showing them the light a good course of action or should you just give them material and tell them "these are good practices, go from here."

For me it was always the former on pretty much everything. I didn't really get exposed to the idea of "design patterns" till I started working with Windows API/GUI programming and Java GUI's and ran into the listener design. Then later I got into Android and got introduced to MV© design.

Designs and practices do make more sense though when you've made tons of mistakes and can read experienced programmers telling you "Do X instead of Y, because of Z issues." and you go, "Yep, I know exactly what he means..." But I can't help but think just being shown it from the get-go might not make it less painful.