Recently I've noticed that I've been translating "Japanese" into English 97% of the time when watching anime or reading. Let's say I'm watching a T.V show, everything thats being said I just translate it to English lightning speed, just barely making it in time for the next word. But overall it fails and the speed beats me. It's easier when there's Japanese subs, but I really want to get rid of this nasty habit.

To fix this I've been starting with thinking of pictures of my vocabulary words. For example 警官 and 犯罪, I just imagine a policeman swinging a baton. I suppose I'll do it with my sentence deck as well starting tomorrow, I don't know how that will work out however. Anyway, any tips on how to get a head start on thinking in Japanese?

Edit: Warning. Generic "just get used to it" advice follows... (but hey that's what I did so I'm just speaking from experience!)

I know the feeling you're talking about and I think this is one of those things you will eventually just naturally get over. Your brain isn't used to hearing (or reading) all these new words and constructions yet so it is desperately attempting to force meaning into the garble by using things you *are* used to (English words).

I don't know how much free time you have, but if you're willing to devote a month to learning Japanese (and do nothing else) then you can break that habit pretty easily. That means listening for 16 (or 24) hours a day and reading for 8 (while listening) and sleeping for 8 (listening optional). If you do this for a month without any English interacting at all it becomes really natural. If you do take this advice, I suggest having someone else buy groceries for you, or buy them in advance and make sure you have no plans. Even a 30 minute break will make you take a hit in comprehension progression. I just threw a month out there, but of course the longer the better.

[s0apgun]

日本語の引きこもりクラブに入りたいですか！？ ƪ(˘▽˘ƪ)

egoplant Wrote:・・・

・・・・・(；´∀｀)

s0apgun Wrote:日本語の引きこもりクラブに入りたいですか！？ ƪ(˘▽˘ƪ)

引きこもりクラブって何それー美味しいの食べれんのーー？ヽ(´ー｀)ノ

I really feel this is a skill that can be practiced and developed, by blocking out your native language. And contrary to what egoplant wrote, I don't feel there's any need to do it 24x7. Everyone has their own style, but I certainly took lots of breaks, and continue to do so, without any noticeable downside to fluency. I wrote about this at length at http://japaneseruleof7.com/the-skill-of-...-japanese/

↑Yeah- It's all about exposure. Monolingual exposure. The more you do it, the more you'll get out of it.
That having been said, I also think that there is something to be gained from taking breaks and not going 24/7 forever. There are plenty of thing for you to learn on the long road to fluency aside from being able to think in Japanese.

Hell, that's the end of the road as far as I can tell. Once you can really think in Japanese you're pretty much good to go. From there it's just polishing and using.

[s0apgun]

教科書クラブから味が劣る。つまりそういうことね щ(ﾟДﾟщ)

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:I really feel this is a skill that can be practiced and developed, by blocking out your native language. And contrary to what egoplant wrote, I don't feel there's any need to do it 24x7. Everyone has their own style, but I certainly took lots of breaks, and continue to do so, without any noticeable downside to fluency. I wrote about this at length at http://japaneseruleof7.com/the-skill-of-...-japanese/

Contrary to what you think I wrote, I said breaking the immersion will break your progress of making the language become natural, not that you need to do it 24/7, just that it's much more beneficial to do that.

drdunlap Wrote:That having been said, I also think that there is something to be gained from taking breaks and not going 24/7 forever.

What can be gained from taking breaks in terms of learning Japanese? Just because going from 15 -> 16 hours a day isn't as much as going from 0 -> 1 doesn't mean it's not helping. I've heard people say things like this before, and I think it's just people who want to make themselves feel better about their own laziness, while at the same time trying to put down the people who are actually dedicated. I'm not trying to come off as mean or hostile even though it might read that way. If you do have a reason, please post it.

egoplant Wrote:

drdunlap Wrote:That having been said, I also think that there is something to be gained from taking breaks and not going 24/7 forever.

What can be gained from taking breaks in terms of learning Japanese? Just because going from 15 -> 16 hours a day isn't as much as going from 0 -> 1 doesn't mean it's not helping. I've heard people say things like this before, and I think it's just people who want to make themselves feel better about their own laziness, while at the same time trying to put down the people who are actually dedicated. I'm not trying to come off as mean or hostile even though it might read that way. If you do have a reason, please post it.

You do often come off as very hostile but I don't particularly care so I guess that's a plus. :x Do you.. know anything about me? I am the antithesis of lazy. I can't understand how people expect to learn a foreign language in a reasonable amount of time without putting in an incredible amount of effort.

That having been said...

I say what I say because I have become bilingual in Japanese. I only speak from experience. Of course it stands to reason that people are different and different people will receive different benefit from different methods and as such my advice is not the be-all-end-all of everything ever.

Thinking in Japanese is awesome, but it's going to take time for all of the vocabulary and grammar and so forth of a foreign language to sink into your brain. That's why, despite having spent countless hours doing so myself, I don't advocate 24/7 Japanese. Just do as much as you can while learning vocab and the like and the pieces *will* come together. It's a very natural dilemma to wonder why things aren't making sense- the short answer is "because you aren't used to it yet."

drdunlap Wrote:

egoplant Wrote:

drdunlap Wrote:That having been said, I also think that there is something to be gained from taking breaks and not going 24/7 forever.

What can be gained from taking breaks in terms of learning Japanese? Just because going from 15 -> 16 hours a day isn't as much as going from 0 -> 1 doesn't mean it's not helping. I've heard people say things like this before, and I think it's just people who want to make themselves feel better about their own laziness, while at the same time trying to put down the people who are actually dedicated. I'm not trying to come off as mean or hostile even though it might read that way. If you do have a reason, please post it.

You do often come off as very hostile but I don't particularly care so I guess that's a plus. :x Do you.. know anything about me? I am the antithesis of lazy. I can't understand how people expect to learn a foreign language in a reasonable amount of time without putting in an incredible amount of effort.

That having been said...

I say what I say because I have become bilingual in Japanese. I only speak from experience. Of course it stands to reason that people are different and different people will receive different benefit from different methods and as such my advice is not the be-all-end-all of everything ever.

Thinking in Japanese is awesome, but it's going to take time for all of the vocabulary and grammar and so forth of a foreign language to sink into your brain. That's why, despite having spent countless hours doing so myself, I don't advocate 24/7 Japanese. Just do as much as you can while learning vocab and the like and the pieces *will* come together. It's a very natural dilemma to wonder why things aren't making sense- the short answer is "because you aren't used to it yet."

I am not trying to be hostile, that's just how it reads. But anyway you still didn't really answer the question of why taking breaks is good, or why doing Japanese 24/7 is bad. What it really comes down to in my opinion is the more time you put in, the more you will get out, but for some reason you're arguing that isn't the case? I really don't understand what you mean by that, so if you could explain further I would appreciate it. The OP doesn't have to take my advice if she doesn't want to, I was just giving it from my personal experience too, but if someone is going to criticize it then I guess it's my duty to defend it for the benefit of potentially helping others.

Let's not confuse dedication with obsession.

drdunlap said that there is something to be gained by taking breaks. I can't say whether he meant this in relation to a person's Japanese learning capability or not, but I can say with utmost confidence that dedicating 24/7 of your time to anything will make you unhappy in the long run. What's the point of learning Japanese if you become miserable in the process? Well, at least one can look down on those that aren't as obsessed as (s)he is.

You quoted it so I assume you read it-
my last paragraph is my explanation.

Betelgeuzah also brings up a good point- SOME people can sink 24/7 into a project forever and be perfectly happy- never experiencing burnout. However, MOST people in the world don't seem to be so dedicated. I, also, am not able to spend 24/7 on a single task without going crazy. I spent a lot of time on Japanese, but, in my experience, learning all the things I did took a lot of time and "thinking in Japanese" was a product of doing all of these other things-- not just selling my life and mind to Japanese.

Don't use English to understand. Keep going. Learn more. It'll come. That's what I'm sayin'!

Studying Japanese 24/7 is better for your Japanese than doing less study time. Unless you go insane during the process of course. Its perfectly fine and healthy to take breaks from time to time.

Can you just ... not translate?
I've never really had that problem - my Japanese is fairly shoddy, but when I'm reading/watching stuff I pretty much never translate into English. The only time I notice it happening is when I'm watching or reading something above my level.
Maybe try reading really easy stuff, I guess? And if you notice yourself translating consciously stop yourself? If you're reading something easy enough to essentially speedread, there's not really any space to translate.

egoplant Wrote:What can be gained from taking breaks in terms of learning Japanese? Just because going from 15 -> 16 hours a day isn't as much as going from 0 -> 1 doesn't mean it's not helping. I've heard people say things like this before, and I think it's just people who want to make themselves feel better about their own laziness, while at the same time trying to put down the people who are actually dedicated. I'm not trying to come off as mean or hostile even though it might read that way. If you do have a reason, please post it.

There are more important things in this world than Japanese. It's not called laziness; it's called having other parts of your life.

Every minute I spent learning Japanese was a minute I didn't spend learning all the other stuff I want to learn. It was also a minute that I didn't spend seeing my English-speaking friends, or my family, or working out, or playing with my dog, or playing guitar, or falling in love, or getting laid, or thinking about stupid shit that's fun to think about, or making stupid jokes, or making delicious food, or doing any of the things that would make me more interesting when talking to my friends in Japanese.

Speaking of which, don't you have anki reviews or something more useful to do?

Anyway, to be honest I really exceeded any expectations I had about learning Japanese. I'm bilingual. And I did it without studying more than three hours a day at any point, and I'm glad I did it that way.

egoplant Wrote:But anyway you still didn't really answer the question of why taking breaks is good, or why doing Japanese 24/7 is bad. What it really comes down to in my opinion is the more time you put in, the more you will get out, but for some reason you're arguing that isn't the case?

Undoubtedly it's the case. It's also a strategy that you can only adopt if you (1) live in Japan or (2) live in your home country with no job, no family, and no friends who speak your mother tongue.

Like Tzadeck says, life is rich, and balance is good. When I first started studying Japanese intensely and was in something of an "All Japanese All The Time" mode, I went with my partner to see a production of "Romeo and Juliet" in Seattle. Let me tell you: if you've never seen R+J produced by a professional acting troupe, get thee to a theater - it is a delicious treat. From the perspective that anything less than 24/7 immersion is laziness, I guess that was three hours of wasted time. From a life perspective, it was wonderful to experience the true power of a masterpiece written in my native language.

There's nothing wrong with full immersion, if your life situation allows it - especially if you have the privilege of living in Japan. But 3+ hours/day is pretty damn dedicated. No one should wreck their life in the pursuit of fluency.

I'll try two examples...

1) [kind of following other peoples' lead] once you do achieve 'fluency' (which isn't an imaginary line you cross... but rather a set of goalposts that get further and further away the more you study until you give up from exhaustion and just start agreeing when people call you fluent...) Once you do achieve 'fluency', what kind of life are you going to lead? Just speaking japanese doesn't really get you anywhere on it's own. It's a great way to augment other more serious skills in your life, but if you can totally disconnect from everything else in order to do the 24-7 lifestyle... i'm assuming you don't have anything else going on. that will become a problem.

2) playing the anki/immersion game and getting good at/used to japanese are not really the same thing. textbooks and anki and tv and movies, etc. are all a shite way to learn this language as opposed to casually speaking with japanese people. all your herculean feats of 24-7 hikicomori are about as effective as if I went out for drinks with a friend one evening.
good luck making any if you're locked in your mom's basement playing anki and watching cartoons nonstop.

Maybe check out tae Kim if u haven't already. It would be helpful for your problem

dtcamero Wrote:2) playing the anki/immersion game and getting good at/used to japanese are not really the same thing. textbooks and anki and tv and movies, etc. are all a shite way to learn this language as opposed to casually speaking with japanese people. all your herculean feats of 24-7 hikicomori are about as effective as if I went out for drinks with a friend one evening.
good luck making any if you're locked in your mom's basement playing anki and watching cartoons nonstop.

You said it man, introverts are such losers. They're just so ... "different". Let's give that nerd a wedgie.

(BTW you have now edited your post (at least) twice and still haven't corrected 'hikicomori'.)

ya I'm the only person on the forum who edit's their posts.
what's wrong with hikicomori?

anotherjohn Wrote:

dtcamero Wrote:2) playing the anki/immersion game and getting good at/used to japanese are not really the same thing. textbooks and anki and tv and movies, etc. are all a shite way to learn this language as opposed to casually speaking with japanese people. all your herculean feats of 24-7 hikicomori are about as effective as if I went out for drinks with a friend one evening.
good luck making any if you're locked in your mom's basement playing anki and watching cartoons nonstop.

You said it man, introverts are such losers. They're just so ... "different". Let's give that nerd a wedgie.

(BTW you have now edited your post (at least) twice and still haven't corrected 'hikicomori'.)

You're confusing being an introvert with being a loser there.

It's common in the interwebs though. Self-diagnosed introvert-asperger's everywhere you go.

Not that I agree with dtcamero. I'm sure casually speaking with japanese people makes you fluent in the written language too.

dtcamero Wrote:ya I'm the only person on the forum who edit's their posts.
what's wrong with hikicomori?

Perfect! My work here is done.

well played sir.

introversion is fine, but super inefficient if you want to speak to people.
the irony is that we all have to use these awful techniques, because up until a certain point a native speaker won't be willing to talk to you. But after that their lack of effectiveness becomes obvious.

there is a tendency however, stronger within people who would probably hikicomoru anyway, to think you can isolate yourself with J-culture and naturally end up speaking.
Fyi you can't, you just become adam lanza.

dtcamero Wrote:2) playing the anki/immersion game and getting good at/used to japanese are not really the same thing. textbooks and anki and tv and movies, etc. are all a shite way to learn this language as opposed to casually speaking with japanese people. all your herculean feats of 24-7 hikicomori are about as effective as if I went out for drinks with a friend one evening.
good luck making any if you're locked in your mom's basement playing anki and watching cartoons nonstop.

Well, obviously you need to start speaking if you want to be able to speak fluently some time, but personally I prefer to build up my understanding of the language (reading and listening) before I start to speak it seriously, and I would say immersion works well for increasing these parts. Having a conversation kind of sucks if you don't understand what the other person is saying.