umetani666 Wrote:

Realism Wrote:I kept on asking you to name the albums you've heard and you keep on ignoring my question

would that really make such a big difference? ok, i've listened to some of the albums posted on japanese hip hop thread, like that daoko girl or pepcee guy.
like you already wrote, it sounds like carbon copy of usa hip-hop. what's the point of that? it's boring.
at least with some japanese rock bands you can find uniquely japanese concepts in how they sculpt sound.

Ok, you gave it a listen and didn't like it.

But still, is that Pepcee guy trying to make some fashion statement? No. Act ignorant and trying to sound cool? No. Is he being a clown wearing a blackface? No. He is just normal and does Hip-Hop like anyone else.

And I don't know anyone in the US who sounds like Daoko....even if you don't like her I don't know how you can say she's a carbon copy of anyone in the US.

Once i heard someone mentioning hiphop, I knew there would be detractors, but im glad that Realism n Ryuudou defended J hiphop. As an American hiphop head, im actually impressed by Japanese hiphop. I listen to J hip hop more than anything else these days. The Japanese hiphop thread on this site is a good place to start for those that appreciate hip hop. Honestly, its the only thread I will look at regularly on here.

I also listen to J rock as well, mainly Shiina Ringo, Zazen Boys and bloodthirsty butchers.

Well most people on this site don't even listen to American Hip-Hop so of course they won't even bother to check Japanese Hip-Hop.

As for me I've been more impressed with JHip-Hop in 2013 more than ever.

The variety of albums coming out each month, a lot of it sounds interesting and unique, but more importantly they just sound good in general.

It's actually better than US Hip-Hop in 2013 in my opinion. I can name about 10-15 albums I really enjoyed in Japanese Hip-Hop in 2013 whereas in US Hip-Hop I can only list about 5-6 albums that I liked.

Hirakana Wrote:Nah it's fine haha. I just think that both sides in this argument are kind of wasting their time. No-one's gonna change their mind. Everyone's opinion is equally valid.

No they're not. He's admitted to only listening to 2 songs and couldn't name one full album, and as such his opinion is from a position of deep ignorance and isn't even remotely valid.

I understand that you're trying to be a good mediator though.

umetani666 Wrote:wow, what's with the name calling? relax, man.

I haven't called you any personal names. You are genuinely ignorant about the subject matter, and have been acting irrationally in almost every post you've made. This is what you've shown the thread. This is not me attacking you as I've clearly explained how in a structured way.

umetani666 Wrote:yeah, basically, i think they're clowning around. it's a very literal imitation of usa hip hop, but without cultural and social context that made hip hop what it is.

First of all you can't "imitate" USA Hiphop because USA Hiphop is extensively varied in style and message. Second of all, if you mean gangster rap, then a large majority of Japanese Hiphop is not gangster rap. Listen to Coppu or ラ㍑ツッツー or Seemo. Lastly, as I already said though you intentionally glossed over, a significant amount of Hiphop pronounced in both countries does not contain lyrics so the premise of what you're saying doesn't even make sense. Stop discussing topics you don't understand.

umetani666 Wrote:but you keep missing my point so i'll be blunt

No. Your point wasn't "missed". It's already been addressed and dealt with.

umetani666 Wrote:never seen any japanese or chinese or koreans in lists of best of jazz albums

Sadao Watanabe and Keiko Matsui (and many others) have achieved world-wide acclaim and have toured extensively in Western countries. If you're trying to lump Japan/Korea/China together and suggest all of them innately cannot make Jazz as good as the west then... well I'll leave it at that.

Realism Wrote:

umetani666 Wrote:

Realism Wrote:I kept on asking you to name the albums you've heard and you keep on ignoring my question

would that really make such a big difference? ok, i've listened to some of the albums posted on japanese hip hop thread, like that daoko girl or pepcee guy.
like you already wrote, it sounds like carbon copy of usa hip-hop. what's the point of that? it's boring.
at least with some japanese rock bands you can find uniquely japanese concepts in how they sculpt sound.

And I don't know anyone in the US who sounds like Daoko....even if you don't like her I don't know how you can say she's a carbon copy of anyone in the US.

Because she's not. The only person I can think of that sounds like her would be Bahamadia from the old Army of the Pharaohs.

I can't think of anyone else because Japan honestly has a lot more female MCs than the US.

ryuudou Wrote:He's admitted to only listening to 2 songs

i don't know why you feel the need to constantly twist my words around and lie. it makes you look bad.
i've explained very clearly why japanese hip hop doesn't work with me, but you keep acting irrationally and take everything personally. i have no idea why, and i'm not really interested, to be honest.

ryuudou Wrote:

Hirakana Wrote:Nah it's fine haha. I just think that both sides in this argument are kind of wasting their time. No-one's gonna change their mind. Everyone's opinion is equally valid.

No they're not. He's admitted to only listening to 2 songs and couldn't name one full album, and as such his opinion is from a position of deep ignorance and isn't even remotely valid.

I understand that you're trying to be a good mediator though.

This is very much a case of "SOMEBODY IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET". He has an opposing viewpoint. You're having an argument here that, to put it bluntly, no-one cares about. The final situation will be one of you two leaving, with a lot less time. Who honestly cares if someone doesn't like Japanese hip-hop? They haven't personally insulted you. Seriously, just drop it, both of you.

Hirakana Wrote:

ryuudou Wrote:

Hirakana Wrote:Nah it's fine haha. I just think that both sides in this argument are kind of wasting their time. No-one's gonna change their mind. Everyone's opinion is equally valid.

No they're not. He's admitted to only listening to 2 songs and couldn't name one full album, and as such his opinion is from a position of deep ignorance and isn't even remotely valid.

I understand that you're trying to be a good mediator though.

Who honestly cares if someone doesn't like Japanese hip-hop?

This wasn't about "someone not liking Japanese hip-hop". If your understanding of the situation is that off then you shouldn't be writing anything or trying to mediate, because clearly you're instigating.

As for him he's at a point where he's realized his well beyond finished, so he's trying to see if he can "troll" me (and is not even attempting to respond to Realism) with his latest post which is why he hasn't been directly acknowledged by me this time. A sore loser if a ever saw one, but point being the discussion is more or less over now, Hirakana, so you can relax.

I listen to DJ Sharpnel. He's my favorite artist. I listen to a lot of J-Core, remix, and hard electro from Japan, but I understand that a lot of that stuff is really...out there. Here's a song by him anyway (ignore the picture):

Apart from that I like listening to RIP SLYME (hip-hop) and Shiina Ringo/Tokyo Jihen (alt rock). Perfume (electro), Soil&"Pimp"Sessions (Jazz), and Hyadain (Pop) are also great.

Someone I know made a Greatest of All Time list for Japanese music. They're not really what you're probably used to listening to, they're kind of obscure, but you'll find some interesting things in there.
http://i.imgur.com/fhimuek.jpg

you're just embarrassing yourself, ryuudou.
your whole theory about my ignorance of japanese hip hop is based around how many albums i've listened to. unfortunately, you have no idea how many albums i've actually listened, so it comes off as paranoid and irrational. lying doesn't help, either.

but you just don't see it, so i have to explain it to you like you're a child.

Jombo Wrote:Someone I know made a Greatest of All Time list for Japanese music. They're not really what you're probably used to listening to, they're kind of obscure, but you'll find some interesting things in there.
http://i.imgur.com/fhimuek.jpg

this is actually a very good list. it's mostly experimental stuff.

I can't stop listening to these songs recently. Am i the only one, who mostly listens to japanese music? I know 100x more japanese artist, compared to my own country's.

I WiSH 明日への扉:

今かわるとき:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM_6KEEUO9A

桃ノ花ビラ - Otsuka Ai:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYeSRAuC0YI

Neko ni Fuusen - Otsuka Ai:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j0gykp42Bs

Lolz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEXZgC12e7k

EDIT: I find this channel very useful for finding good music. I guess they cover a lot of the popular songs in Japan.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFDL0NuxUBAvvu1PnIwW2ww

YMO, P-Model, Supercar, Fishmans, Bonobos, Boris, Denki Groove, Shugo Tokumaru, Boredoms, Lantern Parade.

but as for nerd stuff, Akira Yamaoka, Geinoh Yamashirogumi and Yoko Kanno.

Edit: examples

YMO - Seoul Music

YMO - 1000 Knives

P-Model - Perspective

P-Model - Potpourri

Supercar - Free Hand

Fishmans - Woofer Girl

Fishmans - すばらしくNice Choice

Bonobos - Floating

Bonobos - Thank You for the Music

Boris - Feedbacker Part 3

Boris - Flood Part 1

Denki Groove - Flashback Disco

Denki Groove - TKO Techno Queen

Shugo Tokumaru - Green Rain

Shugo Tokumaru - Clocca

Boredoms - Seadrum

Boredoms - Bo Go

Lantern Parade - 月光浴

Lantern Parade - 斜線をひいたよ

I do listen to AKB48 and I don't understand this trend of going against everything that is mainstream. Or worst, to bring that argument every time there is an occasion to, it seems like one is saying "look at me, I don't listen to commercial stuff, I'm smarter than those bunch of people who do!". (I'm not saying it's the case here, just to specify)


That said, AKB48:

Other songs by AKB48:

桜の木になろう
思い出のほとんど
ここにいたこと
夕陽を見ているか?
桜の花びらたち　前田敦子ソロ
ユングやフロイトの場合
僕たちは　今　話し合うべきなんだ
大事な時間
行ってらっしゃい
青空よ　寂しくないか?
涙のせいじゃない
最後のドア
僕の桜


Eir Aoi (all of them, KASUMI is my favorite):

https://www.youtube.com/user/eiraoiVEVO/videos


LiSA:

Other songs from anime :

I also like Babymetal, I discovered them because Dead Kennedy's shared BabyMetal's YT channel in DK's official fb. Wortless to say all pseudo-punk followers feel the need to express their indignation in the comments lol


For those who listen to stuff which is not "easy-listening" I must ask:

I do like death metal, experimental industrial (see "cold meat industry" label), neofolk (current 93, death in june etc..), IDM (squarepusher, venetian snares, aphex twin) and jazz music (stuff like lars danielsson, możdżer, brad mehldau, but also classics like chet baker). There is something similar in japanese? Can you reccoment me something like that? Thank you!

For IDM, or more broadly experimental electronic stuff, you can try So Takahashi, Nobukazu Takemura, Kouhei Matsunaga, Ryoji Ikeda, Ikue Mori (I think she hasn't lived in Japan for 30 years, though) and Yoshihide Otomo.

Tujiko Noriko is a bit like IDM pop, like an ambient, much more sober, Bjork or something? I recommend her a lot, will post some tracks later.

cophnia61 Wrote:I do listen to AKB48 and I don't understand this trend of going against everything that is mainstream. Or worst, to bring that argument every time there is an occasion to, it seems like one is saying "look at me, I don't listen to commercial stuff, I'm smarter than those bunch of people who do!". (I'm not saying it's the case here, just to specify)
...

I don't know about the person you're referring to, but personally, I can't stand most 'mainstream' music (which is completely relevant to the population you use it with, which is why I used single-quotes) simply because I don't find it to be musically appealing. That doesn't mean I don't or wouldn't like some popular artists, but, in general, I hate what most people find enjoyable.
It's either a by-product of actually listening to music (versus it just being background noise; it's nearly impossible for me to ignore music) or the fact that I grew up listening to classical music and 80s metal, so I like music that's somewhat similar to those things; the latter seems much more important, but I think both play a role.

My suggestions haven't changed in the slightest; they're still on the first page.

If we're asking about similar artists, does anyone know of any Japanese bands similar to Symphony X (especially pre-'Paradise Lost')? Or anything similar to the bands I listed earlier (Reply #14)? If you couldn't tell, I'm in a terrible situation where I don't like much of anything, so any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

poblequadrat Wrote:For IDM, or more broadly experimental electronic stuff, you can try So Takahashi, Nobukazu Takemura, Kouhei Matsunaga, Ryoji Ikeda, Ikue Mori (I think she hasn't lived in Japan for 30 years, though) and Yoshihide Otomo.

Tujiko Noriko is a bit like IDM pop, like an ambient, much more sober, Bjork or something? I recommend her a lot, will post some tracks later.

Thank you very much for the suggestions, I will definitely listen to them! Also i like ambient/dark-ambient very much

sholum Wrote:I don't know about the person you're referring to, but personally, I can't stand most 'mainstream' music (which is completely relevant to the population you use it with, which is why I used single-quotes) simply because I don't find it to be musically appealing.

If you put it in those terms then I'm with you, I'm not saying that Lady Gaga (which I find absolutely unappealing to me) and Bach (which I like) are on the same level... Only I don't understand people who doesn't lose the opportunity to criticise other's people taste to underline how much he is instead an expert: "listen to x; x is TRUE music; who listen to y doesn't understand music; etc..".

The same goes for AKB48, if someone doens't like them, then it must not listen to them and stop remind the world how his opinion is the absolute truth. Personally I do enjoy them and I suggest the others to try listen to them without preconceptions.

Yes, in fact of fanatism I'm worst than "directioners" ahahaha AKB! AKB! <3

Doesn't anyone here like metal or rock?

I listen to Mucc.

And I listen to songs from anime that I've taken a liking to.

I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned Kanon Wakeshima in this thread. Voice of an angel.

I recommend her 'Shinshoku Dolce' album in particular.

poblequadrat Wrote:but as for nerd stuff, Akira Yamaoka, Geinoh Yamashirogumi and Yoko Kanno.

i wouldn't call geinoh yamashirogumi a nerd band
they did just one anime soundtrack, but majority of their output has nothing to do with that genre.
good to see boris' 'flood' on your list. i'm not a fan, but that was an excellent album!

i'll try to find so takahashi and kouhei matsunaga, i haven't heard of them before.

cophnia61 Wrote:For those who listen to stuff which is not "easy-listening" I must ask:

I do like death metal, experimental industrial (see "cold meat industry" label), neofolk (current 93, death in june etc..), IDM (squarepusher, venetian snares, aphex twin) and jazz music (stuff like lars danielsson, możdżer, brad mehldau, but also classics like chet baker). There is something similar in japanese? Can you reccoment me something like that? Thank you!

i don't know if you'll like any of this, but give kousokuya a try. they blend free improvisation with hard blues. they're like more rational and linear les rallizes denudes.
suishou no fune are even more original, drumless duo steeped in buddhist mysticsm.
onna is a band of a well known underground mangaka, keizo miyanishi.
kenichi fumoto does neofolk with digital beats.

poblequadrat already gave good IDM recommendations, i'll have to check some of them myself.

I am very fond of Happy End. In case you haven't heard from them have a listen. Kaze Wo Atsumete is very nice for example.
Edit: found a better video with lyrics in it

Northern_Lord Wrote:Doesn't anyone here like metal or rock?

I listen to Mucc.

And I listen to songs from anime that I've taken a liking to.

*raises hand* I do! I listen to Dir En Grey for example. Not exactly your everyday, useful Japanese with its content of far too many dead babies, ejaculations and misery, but great music nevertheless

http://youtu.be/bJX2lYvzM7o

Interviews of the band in question are a different story of course from learning perspective. Less dead babies, actual interesting thoughts and as an added challenge, funky Kansai-ben

cophnia61 Wrote:I do like death metal, experimental industrial (see "cold meat industry" label), neofolk (current 93, death in june etc..), IDM (squarepusher, venetian snares, aphex twin) and jazz music (stuff like lars danielsson, możdżer, brad mehldau, but also classics like chet baker). There is something similar in japanese? Can you reccoment me something like that? Thank you!

電気グルーヴ might be right up your alley if you like smart & catchy IDM. They released some pretty great stuff. I'd describe them as Kraftwerk turned to 11 with some dance-y stuff from Aphex Twin thrown in the mix. I particularly like their recent stuff, from 2008 onward. Quite a lot of their songs have vocals sung in Japanese too, which is pretty cool.

Edit : I didn't notice that poblequadrat listed those guys in the post just above yours. Oh well.

I used to listen to several Lolita Punk artists, because there's a lot of innovation in that area (it's not really a musical genre, the only common element between various artists is the silly clothes). Best one, by far, is Moon Kana. She's pretty obscure, and a horrible singer, but it's worth listening to her anyway because she's a brilliant songwriter. The instrumental parts of her songs, once you get past the screeching voice and the Yoko Ono level weirdness, are gonna blow your mind. They're only worth listening to on a quality mp3 or the original album, don't go by how they sound on youtube or you'll be disappointed.

I also like Nana Kitade and her current band Loveless. Her solo stuff is just good quality punk rock (for the most part...there are some duds in there), and the album she did as Loveless is metal.

But I kinda ran out of the good stuff really, and there's only so many times you can listen to the same 15-20 albums, so lately I've been listening to pop mostly. A lot of the more mainstream Lolita bands aren't that original. I hate Gothic Rock, and there's way too much of it in JRock.

Here's the more mainstream pop music I have on my mp3 player in Japanese right now, squeezed in there between the full David Bowie discography I'm currently binging on (he has a great song with a lot of Japanese in it too btw):

-Leo Ieiri, Leo album; her voice is nice, the songs are average, not sure if any of them are even original songs
-Yanagi Nagi - Owari no Hoshi no Love Song album; I like it, romantic ballads but good
-Lovendor - Lovendor cover the Rock - self explanatory really, they do a good job
-the last two Momusu albums (before you shake your head in disbelief, they're actually quite good, some fairly original music on there, nothing like their older, straight up pop stuff; the best song I heard from them through their whole history is called 時空を超え 宇宙を超え, it was just released a couple off weeks ago; seems like the lack of popularity freed their production team up to be a little creative
-a Kago Ai Jazz album, but this is in English; her voice is great - for a pop idol at least; probably not gonna keep the album much longer though, I'd rather listen to real jazz singers; but if she ever releases an original album, I'll definitely check it out because I like her voice
-a couple of songs from some band called Shironeko - they're catchy, and they were free

And that's about it.

anotherjohn Wrote:I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned Kanon Wakeshima in this thread. Voice of an angel.

I recommend her 'Shinshoku Dolce' album in particular.

Yeah, that's a pretty good album. She sounds good live too. Her next albums were a letdown though.

Stansfield123 Wrote:squeezed in there between the full David Bowie discography I'm currently binging on (he has a great song with a lot of Japanese in it too btw)

Excellent choice. Scary Monsters has always been my favorite album. Here's a kudo for you.

I always found 椎名林檎 to be a pretty good Japanese substitute to Bowie - great songwriting, lots of experimentation, but always keeping a very pop edge. Good stuff.

Linval Wrote:Excellent choice. Scary Monsters has always been my favorite album. Here's a kudo for you.

I always found 椎名林檎 to be a pretty good Japanese substitute to Bowie - great songwriting, lots of experimentation, but always keeping a very pop edge. Good stuff.

Thanks for the suggestion, I checked her out and I like what I'm hearing so far.