Tzadeck Wrote:I really can't find much Japanese music I like. Generally what you hear everyday around Japan is way worse than the pop music you would hear everyday in America or England...

The Japanese Hip-Hop thread proves your theory wrong....

umetani666 Wrote:

ryuudou Wrote:Too much rock and pop here.

seriously, jhiphop must be the only thing worse than jpop.

Seriously, name the last 10 JHip-Hop albums you heard.....

yeah, that's what I thought.

My music interests change pretty often but recently I have been into Vocaloid:

(Actually one of my favorites because its so jumpy I guess but the lyrics are pretty dirty)

And there are many more but I'm sure I will be harshly judged for my music tastes so I will stop now.

Also this one song which has amazing meaningful lyrics and is really good:

I've been listening to this a lot.

I used to listen to Teresa Teng, and then contacted her Japanese songs. When comed the festival, I lost my MP4 in the bus with nearly 1000 songs when I went home. So now I shift to 山口百惠, cycling ラストツング and 追伸 every day before sleeping.

umetani666 Wrote:

Inny Jan Wrote:Somehow, in the past, I got an impression that umetani666 was an adult - maybe he's not?

i'm not sure, but it seems to me that some things don't translate well to certain cultures. like hip hop in the east or cosplay in the west.

You're entitled to your opinion, however not only is it a fundamentally incorrect view (hiphop at it's core is about sending a message and has nothing to do with culture), but the Japanese people also disagree with you considering how big it is there.

Realism Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:I really can't find much Japanese music I like. Generally what you hear everyday around Japan is way worse than the pop music you would hear everyday in America or England...

The Japanese Hip-Hop thread proves your theory wrong....

No, because you don't really hear that stuff without searching for it. And, again, my post was about what you hear everyday. Even when I had a car and therefor listened to the radio a lot, I didn't hear much that would have been on that thread. Anyway, to be honest, I wasn't impressed by anything I heard from that thread, but it's not really my type of music so I'm not one to judge.

I used to spend a lot of time looking for new music, and now I really don't have time. If I had the time I'm sure I could find more good Japanese music. Still though, I think America has a much richer pop music tradition just because blues and jazz were such good genres and they are still a huge influence on American music.

ryuudou Wrote:You're entitled to your opinion, however not only is it a fundamentally incorrect view (hiphop at it's core is about sending a message and has nothing to do with culture), but the Japanese people also disagree with you considering how big it is there.

sending a message? why don't they just use western union?

and this is the first time i hear music has nothing to do with culture.

Tzadeck Wrote:Somewhere there's an interview where Joni Mitchell talks about how disappointed she was by the British invasion because they changed rock from blues swing into white militant. I agree.

do you have a link, i'd be interested to hear what exactly she said.
based on what you wrote, i can't say i would agree. before the beatles, elvis presley already pacified black music so it would be fit for consumption by white teenage girls.

umetani666 Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:Somewhere there's an interview where Joni Mitchell talks about how disappointed she was by the British invasion because they changed rock from blues swing into white militant. I agree.

do you have a link, i'd be interested to hear what exactly she said.
based on what you wrote, i can't say i would agree. before the beatles, elvis presley already pacified black music so it would be fit for consumption by white teenage girls.

Sorry, edited that since it was a bit off topic. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow, and if I can I'll post it here.

umetani666 Wrote:

ryuudou Wrote:You're entitled to your opinion, however not only is it a fundamentally incorrect view (hiphop at it's core is about sending a message and has nothing to do with culture), but the Japanese people also disagree with you considering how big it is there.

and this is the first time i hear music has nothing to do with culture.

It's like saying Jazz, which was invented by African-Americans, doesn't "translate" well to other cultures, so white people can't perform it. It makes absolutely no sense. Stop trying to defend the point; you've derailed this thread for long enough.

Can you create a beat? Do you want lyrics with your hiphop (Nujabes, from Japan, has a lot of hiphop tracks without lyrics) ? Can you write lyrics? Can you deliver your lyrics like an MC? Then you can make hiphop — it has nothing to do with culture. Daoko is a 17 year old Japanese girl and she likes to rap about stuff like her dreams.

ryuudou Wrote:It's like saying Jazz, which was invented by African-Americans, doesn't "translate" well to other cultures, so white people can't perform it.

ehh?? no, it's not like that at all. you are either intentionally distorting what i wrote or don't really understand my point.

last time i checked, jazz originated from new orleans, usa, west.
that being said, weren't there like a bunch of mixed-race or exclusively white dixieland bands? if i'm not mistaken, first jazz record was made by a white dixieland band.
also, if you take a look at some of the most famous jazz composers like mingus or coltrane you'll find pretty obvious influences of european classical music, too.
so, what it 'other' in jazz?

ryuudou Wrote:Daoko is a 17 year old Japanese girl and she likes to rap about stuff like her dreams.

you go girl.

umetani666 Wrote:

ryuudou Wrote:You're entitled to your opinion, however not only is it a fundamentally incorrect view (hiphop at it's core is about sending a message and has nothing to do with culture), but the Japanese people also disagree with you considering how big it is there.

sending a message? why don't they just use western union?

and this is the first time i hear music has nothing to do with culture.

So what exactly makes you think that Hip-Hop doesn't translate well in Japan? Are you an expert on Japanese Hip-Hop? What are the last 10 albums you've heard? If you have actually sat down and listened to 10 or 20 Japanese rap albums and think they are just clowning themselves then fine, but what exactly made you come to that conclusion?

But first of all, how can you even tell if the song is made by a Japanese or American barring the lyrics? If you listen to a Kenichiro Nishihara song, a Nujabes or a Joe Iron song the beats sound like they could have been made by anyone from any country.

And what about Japanese rap albums that are entirely produced by American beat-makers? Or American rap albums entirely produced by Japanese beat-makers? They translate perfectly fine, I've heard them both.

Even in US Hip-Hop they use foreign beat-makers from UK, Sweden, Australia all the time. And if you didn't check the liner notes you would not be able to even tell.

And the amount of output in Japanese Hip-Hop is pretty much the same as in American Hip-Hop, with hundreds of albums and mixtapes coming out each year. They work with American or European artists all the time, and vice versa. If they were just making a mockery of it, getting up on stage wearing blackfaces then nobody would work with them, but that's not the case.

umetani666 Wrote:white people make jazz too

Thanks for proving my point. It's still an African-American invention despite influences. Arguably all kind of music has been influenced by something that has existed somewhere at some point. Despite Jazz being born from African-American culture it "translates" quite well into hands of great Jazz artists in many other countries including Latin and Asian ones as well. What about rock? Did that not "translate" well into Jimmi Hendrix?

You have no argument at all. A lot of Hiphop doesn't even have lyrics; it doesn't even make sense that it couldn't "translate" well. Can you tell the difference between Hiphop from Japan raised Nujabes and Japanese-American (American raised) TokiMonsta? Furthermore music, fundamentally, is about expression. In Hiphop this is even more true. Unless you're implying that Japanese people aren't allowed to express themselves. Though this was all unnecessary considering:

ryuudou Wrote:You're entitled to your opinion, however not only is it a fundamentally incorrect view (hiphop at it's core is about sending a message and has nothing to do with culture), but the Japanese people also disagree with you considering how big it is there.

The discussion ended after this message when you had nothing to respond with except for a poorly written irrelevant joke about Western Union.

umetani666 Wrote:

ryuudou Wrote:Daoko is a 17 year old Japanese girl and she likes to rap about stuff like her dreams.

you go girl.

A.K.A "I have no response to this clear example of someone talented taking Hiphop and expressing themselves in a way that doesn't fit my stereotypical contrived views born out of ignorance, so I'll make a poor attempt at being witty to hopefully mask the fact that I do, in fact, have no response."

Realism Wrote:

umetani666 Wrote:

ryuudou Wrote:You're entitled to your opinion, however not only is it a fundamentally incorrect view (hiphop at it's core is about sending a message and has nothing to do with culture), but the Japanese people also disagree with you considering how big it is there.

sending a message? why don't they just use western union?

and this is the first time i hear music has nothing to do with culture.

So what exactly makes you think that Hip-Hop doesn't translate well in Japan? Are you an expert on Japanese Hip-Hop? What are the last 10 albums you've heard? If you have actually sat down and listened to 10 or 20 Japanese rap albums and think they are just clowning themselves then fine, but what exactly made you come to that conclusion?

But first of all, how can you even tell if the song is made by a Japanese or American barring the lyrics? If you listen to a Kenichiro Nishihara song, a Nujabes or a Joe Iron song the beats sound like they could have been made by anyone from any country.

And what about Japanese rap albums that are entirely produced by American beat-makers? Or American rap albums entirely produced by Japanese beat-makers? They translate perfectly fine, I've heard them both.

Even in US Hip-Hop they use foreign beat-makers from UK, Sweden, Australia all the time. And if you didn't check the liner notes you would not be able to even tell.

And the amount of output in Japanese Hip-Hop is pretty much the same as in American Hip-Hop, with hundreds of albums and mixtapes coming out each year. They work with American or European artists all the time, and vice versa. If they were just making a mockery of it, getting up on stage wearing blackfaces then nobody would work with them, but that's not the case.

This is filled with a lot of true knowledge, however at this stage I'm beginning to think it's best not to acknowledge someone who manages to be this irrational while simultaneously being ignorant about the subject matter to this extent.

Without delving into whether or not Japanese hip hop has any merit, I'm going to have to agree with the other expat guy above--after living in Japan for 2 years, I can honestly say that 99% of what I hear is not music I'd ever care to listen to again. Most either imitates the West in the worst sort of way, or is otherwise just all-around awful. Like the above-poster, I will also condition this by saying that this is just what I happen to hear on the radio/TV/at the club. I am sure there's good stuff if you go digging for it, and the exact same thing is true of Western music when comparing what you hear on the radio to what you can find with a little effort.

It takes enough effort to dig out decent Western music that I can't be bothered to do it again in Japanese. Plus I take it as a personal sort of mission when I'm driving around with the top down to educate the general Japanese populace as to what constitutes decent Western music (hint, my dear Japanese friends: not Lady Gaga, not Justin Bieber).

umetani666 Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:Somewhere there's an interview where Joni Mitchell talks about how disappointed she was by the British invasion because they changed rock from blues swing into white militant. I agree.

do you have a link, i'd be interested to hear what exactly she said.
based on what you wrote, i can't say i would agree. before the beatles, elvis presley already pacified black music so it would be fit for consumption by white teenage girls.

Couldn't find it when I looked this morning. It's a relatively recent interview (she's looking pretty old), and she talks about how of the late 60's stuff she likes Hendrix and Sly and the Family Stone. Might have been taken off Youtube. It's no great loss as Mitchell is actually pretty insufferable in interviews (though she's a great songwriter); it just so happens that one time she said something I thought was on the ball.

I agree that Elvis pacified black music a bit, but I think his music itself retained bluesy-ness in a technical sense, so he really didn't do the damage that the Beatles did.
Anyway here's a twelve bar in G, with unexplained anime fan-service,
Merry Christmas, Baby,

@realism

yeah, basically, i think they're clowning around. it's a very literal imitation of usa hip hop, but without cultural and social context that made hip hop what it is. in japan it's just derivative and silly, more of a fashion statement than anything else. like those elvis guys in yoyogi park. it's a bit embarrassing to watch.


@ryuudou

wow, what's with the name calling? relax, man.

but you keep missing my point so i'll be blunt - jazz is an american, western invention so i see no problem with other westerners, regardless of their race, dabbling in it. but i've never seen any japanese or chinese or koreans in lists of best of jazz albums or composers. have you?

japanese rock is an interesting story...they actually managed to innovate and became masters of at least one subgenre of rock music.

What you wrote makes no sense and it doesn't prove anything. i have no idea why you have this horrible attitude. The only thing I can say to you which has been said already in this thread is stop generalizing when you don't know anything about the subject at hand. If you're gonna not bother to searc for good japanese jazz which does exist same with japanese hiphop even though there's yotube and whatnot then Don't say anything. U just look dumb and borderline ethnocentric ( this is something you want to rid yourself of if u want to actually good at japanese or learn the culture. also its one of the biggtest reasons why qmericans are hated on worldwide) one day when you come across amazing japanese jazz you'll regret what you said. no seriously why the hell do you mention korean and china with japan as if they're all the same. if you don't know anything about korean music or chinese music or japanese music then don't say anything!

howtwosavealif3 Wrote:If you're gonna not bother to searc for good japanese jazz which does exist same with japanese hiphop even though there's yotube and whatnot then Don't say anything.

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/erikfish/..._combined/

http://www.scaruffi.com/jazz/best100.html

http://jazz100.sffjazz.com/

how many japanese jazz artists have you found? i noticed one and she's japanese-american.

i don't find it irrational that usa produces best jazz music because it was invented there after all.
why is art of arranging flowers not popular in the west? (hint: it has something to do with culture and perception of nature)

umetani666 Wrote:how many japanese jazz artists have you found? i noticed one and she's japanese-american.

i don't find it irrational that usa produces best jazz music because it was invented there after all.
why is art of arranging flowers not popular in the west? (hint: it has something to do with culture and perception of nature)

On the non-famous level jazz is actually quite good in Japan. If you go to one of the popular jazz restaurants in Kobe or Utsunomiya (Tochigi) you'll always get a really good show. In terms of famous musicians, actually, Utsunomiya became known for jazz partly because of Sadao Watanabe, who was born there; he's famous worldwide for bossa nova and jazz music among other things.

You can also find really good blues musicians in surprising places (the Blues to Music festival in Kyoto is filled with some great players, especially the headliners every year).

of course you can find jazz and blues in japan, that's understandable. but are there any original and new 'voices' or they mostly just stop at imitating western models?

umetani666 Wrote:of course you can find jazz and blues in japan, that's understandable. but are there any original and new 'voices' or they mostly just stop at imitating western models?

Uhhh... have you ever played music? Especially with blues, but also a good deal with jazz, imitation is nine tenths of the law, western or eastern.

Also, I mentioned one 'voice.'

Tzadeck Wrote:

umetani666 Wrote:of course you can find jazz and blues in japan, that's understandable. but are there any original and new 'voices' or they mostly just stop at imitating western models?

Uhhh... have you ever played music? Especially with blues, but also a good deal with jazz, imitation is nine tenths of the law, western or eastern.

Also, I mentioned one 'voice.'

Never heard of the phrase "imitation is nine tenths of the law" before. This is something I'm a little worried about in Japanese, do Japanese people parody their own idioms or phrases in this way?

umetani666 Wrote:of course you can find jazz and blues in japan, that's understandable. but are there any original and new 'voices' or they mostly just stop at imitating western models?

If this was the 80s or 90s then I might agree, Hip-Hop was just starting out in Japan and they had to study the US.

But in 2013? Of course there's original stuff, there are tons of them with their own sound.

There are Japanese Hip-Hop that blends Hip-Hop with bits of JRock sound, or Hip-Hop that uses traditional instruments, which is stuff I've never heard before anywhere else. And of course there are Japanese rappers who talk about social and political stuff all the time, so what are you trying to get at?

But like I said, I don't think you even heard a full Japanese hip-hop, blues, or jazz album before and you think it's a cheap way to look cool, or making a fashion statement, which is definitely not what that stuff is about anywhere. These guys understand Hip-Hop and knows how to make good music respecting the culture and everything with it.

I kept on asking you to name the albums you've heard and you keep on ignoring my question, and JHip-Hop in 2013 actually sounds better and more innovative than US Hip-Hop currently, all you have to do is listen and compare the albums, which you haven't done. So you seem really biased there's no point in arguing about this anymore.

Realism Wrote:I kept on asking you to name the albums you've heard and you keep on ignoring my question

would that really make such a big difference? ok, i've listened to some of the albums posted on japanese hip hop thread, like that daoko girl or pepcee guy.
like you already wrote, it sounds like carbon copy of usa hip-hop. what's the point of that? it's boring.
at least with some japanese rock bands you can find uniquely japanese concepts in how they sculpt sound.

Is all of this really important....?

no, it's not. sorry for ruining your thread. you can ask moderators to delete my posts, i won't mind.

Nah it's fine haha. I just think that both sides in this argument are kind of wasting their time. No-one's gonna change their mind. Everyone's opinion is equally valid.