I've been hearing it a lot these days. What exactly *is* it? Is it meant to be a way to learn grammar? Or just reinforce what you've already learned? Just guessing from context here, but is it basically just ... adding a bunch of sentences to an SRS deck? And then determining whether you "pass" or "fail" each card by whether or not you can still read/understand that sentence several days down the line?

How do I "get started"? Just pick up some sentences in native Jap, find a translation for them, then add both to a new deck in Anki? I got a feeling that would get me hopelessly lost, given that I'm still relatively new to studying grammar ...

Well yeah, basically it's just adding sentences to Anki with definitions/whatever on the back. You 'mine' them from native sources.
I use it primarily to learn vocabulary, but as a nice bonus you learn grammar too.

I think the best way to do it is subs2srs. If you're a beginner, pick an easy show, run it through subs2srs, and add definitions to unknown words on the back of the card as go (and delete any sentences that are too hard, too easy, or that you just don't like). It's much easier and you get much more from it than doing it the old fashioned way.

Not against you personally at all, but this question gets asked every other day lol. Doesn't AJATT have its own forum? If not they really should XD Oh and didn't we have a no-AJATT-thread policy? We used to, right? Anyway, in case you didn't know, if you want more (too much!) info on the matter, head on to the "all Japanese all the time" website. "Sentence mining" is his idea (or at least he popularized it)

You don't have to do this though. I don't. To me, it's too much effort for too little benefit, but whatever

Aetheus Wrote:How do I "get started"? Just pick up some sentences in native Jap, find a translation for them, then add both to a new deck in Anki? I got a feeling that would get me hopelessly lost, given that I'm still relatively new to studying grammar ...

I just "mine" sentences from textbooks and dictionaries. Overall, you just copy and paste the sentence into your anki deck and grade to how you see fit. I grade it by 100% understanding of a sentence (vocab, grammar). However, when adding new sentences, try adding sentences corresponding to your level. In other words, don't add more than 1 new thing to learn in a sentence. Each sentence I add is either a review of a grammar point already learned, or a new grammar point ready to be learned. I put all new vocabulary learned in the sentence into another deck.

Aetheus Wrote:I got a feeling that would get me hopelessly lost, given that I'm still relatively new to studying grammar ...

As a fresh beginner you would ideally be getting your sentences from things like Genki or Tae Kim's guide.

comeauch Wrote:Anyway, in case you didn't know, if you want more (too much!) info on the matter, head on to the "all Japanese all the time" website. "Sentence mining" is his idea (or at least he popularized it)

The Sentence Mining philosophy that AJATT advocated strongly at one time is heavily influenced by AntiMoon's philosophy.

If you want to know a lot of the reasoning behind it, look up AntiMoon on the interwebs. Just keep in mind you could spend hours learning how to learn a language when you could just be studying it instead.

Honestly, you can learn a lot just by picking up a book and forcing your way through it. Already mentioned but Subs2SRS is very useful. However, it is especially useful in conjunction with the Anki Morphology plugin.

@Aikynaro: Will do! Any easy ones that you could recommend off the top of your head?

@comeauch: wasn't really aware of what sentence mining even was, much less that it originated from one specific site! will bear in mind that there's an "anti-AJATT" rule the next time I post. Thanks for pointing me to a resource for it, though.

@xanpakuto: So you basically have one Grammar Deck and one Vocab Deck? Would you mind showing me the format of your grammar deck? Or is it something pretty simple like Fields: Sentence, Grammar point used, Translation of sentence ?

@ryuudou: Great idea! Will compile a list of sentences from Genki ASAP!

@Daichi: I was actually picking through the first couple of pages of キノの旅 the other day (I'd heard that it was a good read for beginners) and found several sentences that I found pretty easy to read and several others that were readable-by-way-of-guessing (lol). Most of the sentences still went completely over my head, though. Perhaps I'll get back to it when I've covered more ground in Genki. Give myself something to look forward to.

I try to keep my decks as simple as possible to speed up reviews as much as possible.

Grammar deck example card:

Front:
Sentence:魚がおいしいレストランを知りませんか

Back: Same sentence with furigana
Translation: Do you know a restaurant that has delicious fish

*I don't waste time to add what grammar point is being used really. I read the dictionary of basic grammar right now and it going really in depth, so it sticks nicely. However if I were to do it in the future, I would just put a small note there telling me about studying relative clause.
*I grade on 100% understanding (vocabulary,grammar), because of this I always do reviews on my vocabulary deck first.
*I grade cards based on time; pass or fail will be compared to tr cards difficulty.


Vocabulary deck example card

Front:
Word:表情

Back:Word with furigana
English: Facial expression

*Grade on time, reading, English. Anything that takes too long is a fail card.

Tips: Have a tv show or something playing while doing the reviews. Lately I've had a lot of time so I added a lot of cards. Due to this, I've been having 500+ reviews a day. It usually takes me about 40 minutes to do them without and distractions, an hour and 20 minutes while watching TV or drama on. It may sound less effective, but it is extremely entertaining and helps your listening. I just bought a 3tb hard drive so I get get some more media (笑)



Good luck!

Thanks! I've already collected a few dozen sentences from the Genki chapters Ive read, so I guess all that's left is to setup the decks.

That's actually a pretty good tip too. Ive been wondering about how Id stave off boredom while doing reviews (for RTK). I mostly just try to do them when I would be otherwise idle (mostly while commuting).

Aetheus Wrote:@Aikynaro: Will do! Any easy ones that you could recommend off the top of your head?

Sure - I'd strongly recommend Heartcatch Precure. It's a good show with lots of easy, common vocabulary. Here are my retimed Japanese subtitles for episodes 1-12 (not doing any more though because I can barely make 10 cards from an episode now). I've also done all of Dokidoki Precure up to episode 44 so far - it's a bit more complex than Heartcatch, but still should be mostly usable. Subs here.

Thanks! Have downloaded the subs - will check out the show when I'm in a place with a faster connection.

Xanpakuto Wrote:Due to this, I've been having 500+ reviews a day.

What frequency are you adding cards?

Aikynaro Wrote:I think the best way to do it is subs2srs.

Isn't this terribly time consuming though?

wulfgar2 Wrote:

Aikynaro Wrote:I think the best way to do it is subs2srs.

Isn't this terribly time consuming though?

Hmm, I wouldn't say 'terribly', but sure, it is a bit. I think it's well worth the effort though. You get high quality audio for your cards and are studying from something that's interesting. It makes watching other similar things easier too.
The most time consuming part is retiming subtitles to match the audio. If you only do things where they're already well matched up, it decreases the amount of time significantly (although that limits your choices by quite a bit). And if you do movies instead of TV episodes you get a lot better return on investment. Adding definitions to the cards takes some time too, but that's productive study time in itself.

It usually takes me about 30 minutes to go through 100-120 reviews, and then maybe another 20 minutes (+-10 to add 20 new cards.
On the front of the cards I have audio (that I listen to), text, and image.
On the back of the cards I have text (with furigana), definitions of words, and audio (that I usually skip unless it's difficult).

ryuudou Wrote:

Xanpakuto Wrote:Due to this, I've been having 500+ reviews a day.

What frequency are you adding cards?

Since I'm on break for about 3 weeks, I'm adding about 150 a day.

*Cough* also my video game days are pretty much over