Discussion on the forum lately has been highlighting the benefits of extensive reading:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid197807

"I don't think it'll be too far in the future before we can read a book digitally, either in a browser or on a tablet, look up the words by clicking on them, and also listen and read simultaneously, similar to NHK News Easy. . . . I'm really looking for turn-key solution, either from Apple Books, iTunes, or Amazon. I want to avoid spending hours surfing the net trying to piece together materials or trying to get a bunch of random software to work." -JapaneseRuleof7 (forum member and blogger)

There's a lot of helpful stuff on this forum. I'm hoping this thread can be a central location (or a precursor to one--on the wiki?) so learners can do what they want with it based on their level/goals.
The first posts will be edited to include links that are posted below.

Wishlist:

Innocent 'recommendations' for reading material (5000 revamp, etc.)
Tools for converting/reading said material on various hardware
Software
Tips and walkthroughs; personal experiences, solutions and workarounds

Thanks for participating!

Floating Japanese Dictionary: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=11147
Another Floating Dic: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid199108

Link to Handwriting app: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid197067

Japanese reading tutor website: http://language.tiu.ac.jp/index_e.html

gh123's Reading Assistant tool: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=7814

cb4960's Text Analysis Tool: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid167827
I think there's a thread that lists all of cb4960's tools? This will suffice for now: http://sourceforge.net/users/cb4960

A CB4960 app that is like 'A Comic Viewer'+'Capture2Text'+'Rikaichan' http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=11121

A totally innocent but 11 page thread that might be more helpful when it's summarized
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=5048

Audiobooks for children (more buonaparte links) http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=9496

Old Stories of Japan (bilingual): http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand-Gaien/7211/

Aozora (the gutenberg.org of Japanese) http://www.aozora.gr.jp/
Convert Aozora books into PDF here: http://a2k.aill.org/
Vertical Text Viewer reading app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/detai...TextViewer

Listening-Reading links (mostly by sheetz): http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=5989

Learning With Texts software: http://sourceforge.net/projects/lwt/
Yomichan Text Reader with Anki support: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=7074&page=1 (Thanks to Foosoft!)

NHK News Easy: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/
TBS news articles with video and related article: http://news.tbs.co.jp/ Some prefer this because the speaking is at natural speed and not slowed down for learners, and it's always a human speaker, as opposed to the occasional robot voice on NHK Easy.

Listening-Reading info (thanks again, buonaparte): http://users.bestweb.net/~siom/martian_mountain/

Audiobooks: http://www.booksshouldbefree.com/language/Japanese

Sight Reading that highlights your kanji.koohii cards http://kanji.koohii.com/sightreading

Not a ton of stuff available for scripts: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=5546#pid5546

Soapgun's "mediocre option for relevant reading practice outside of SRS": http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid186922

Article describing a method for reading newspapers (with links to the newspapers at the bottom): http://www.tofugu.com/2010/08/30/5-step-...-for-kids/

Free LN's online and works in progress (before edits for the publisher), read these with Rikaichan if you so prefer: http://ncode.syosetu.com/n8725k/

Scan service to avoid shipping fees for books you want to buy from Japan (thanks to pmnox) http://www.s-s-sendai.info/

e-reader usage suggestions by forum member, weirdo: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid190385

Thanks tashippy. This is definitely helpful, especially for people who miss some important threads.

Despite some nice efforts on the Wiki, we're not maintaining it properly, and so it's lacking a lot. It seems to me that organizing all this useful info and threads in the Wiki would be superb, so that it becomes a handy reference for Japanese tools, methods, sources, and experiences. Maybe we can make it into THE reference for Japanese language learning. I think we are capable of that.
I'm willing to work on it for about 10 hours a month. If we can organize that it would be even better!

EDIT: I know that there are threads for listing useful things, but they can be a bit tedious because of the big amount of stuff in them! The Wiki can be much more organizing.

Thanks, undead_said. My hope is that this can be sort of a messy rough draft to an entry in the wiki.

Great idea for a thread tashippy!

undead_saif Wrote:Despite some nice efforts on the Wiki, we're not maintaining it properly, and so it's lacking a lot. It seems to me that organizing all this useful info and threads in the Wiki would be superb, so that it becomes a handy reference for Japanese tools, methods, sources, and experiences. Maybe we can make it into THE reference for Japanese language learning. I think we are capable of that.
I'm willing to work on it for about 10 hours a month. If we can organize that it would be even better!

Yeah, I've updated some pages on it, since I think it could be a great resource, and it always saddens me when I haven't touched the wiki in months, and then I go to the recent changes log and see that I'm still the last one who worked on the Japanese section ( Gdaxeman is doing an awesome job in the Chinese section).
If more people could help out with the wiki, that would be great!

Good idea. I need to find some reading resources as well. It's too bad that I don't have enough strength to read due to having to do 700 Anki review every day :/

pmnox, I've become a believer in achievable goals, so set a cap on those reviews! I don't think the majority of your interaction with the language should come in the form of flash cards, especially in light of the discussions going on on the Arcane secrets thread. But, to each his own.

tashippy Wrote:pmnox, I've become a believer in achievable goals, so set a cap on those reviews! I don't think the majority of your interaction with the language should come in the form of flash cards, especially in light of the discussions going on on the Arcane secrets thread. But, to each his own.

I finished Core 6k by rushing it in just 70 days. I guess I have to wait some time before the reviews go down. I have 6000 mature cards so far and 2800 learning :/

Here's a link to Mamare's site for ログ・ホライズン. He wrote this on 2ch a while back, later gathered and posted it on this website, and now it's being published as LNs. He also wrote Maoyuu, too. (I don't have the link for the Maoyuu website.)

http://ncode.syosetu.com/n8725k/

The upside of this site is that you can read the LNs in your web browser, with Rikaichan enabled. Also, you can see the very latest chapters here of his unpublished books. The downside is that this is the rough version of the novels. He takes this version, edits it (sometimes heavily) and then it's published as a regular LN. This usually happens soon after he finishes a volume.

But it's free, legal, non-fattening, and it'll give you an idea of the series.

And of course, if you like it, go buy the books to support the author for being cool.

rich_f Wrote:Here's a link to Mamare's site for ログ・ホライズン. He wrote this on 2ch a while back, later gathered and posted it on this website, and now it's being published as LNs. He also wrote Maoyuu, too. (I don't have the link for the Maoyuu website.)

http://ncode.syosetu.com/n8725k/

The upside of this site is that you can read the LNs in your web browser, with Rikaichan enabled. Also, you can see the very latest chapters here of his unpublished books. The downside is that this is the rough version of the novels. He takes this version, edits it (sometimes heavily) and then it's published as a regular LN. This usually happens soon after he finishes a volume.

But it's free, legal, non-fattening, and it'll give you an idea of the series.

And of course, if you like it, go buy the books to support the author for being cool.

I would like to order some books/novels from amazon.jp . However, I don`t know what to order. Any suggestions?

I would say you need to look at children's novels for now until you finish core 6k and have a good handle on grammar.

Lower the bar until you can clear it comfortably, then start inching it higher.

LNs require a solid 8k-10k word vocab, plus a good handle on grammar. You can get by with 6k, but it will be a bit of a stretch, IMO. Lots of looking up words, and that breaks the reading rhythm. Yes, you can skip words you don't know, but if it's every other word, you're not being efficient.

rich_f Wrote:I would say you need to look at children's novels for now until you finish core 6k and have a good handle on grammar.

Lower the bar until you can clear it comfortably, then start inching it higher.

LNs require a solid 8k-10k word vocab, plus a good handle on grammar. You can get by with 6k, but it will be a bit of a stretch, IMO. Lots of looking up words, and that breaks the reading rhythm. Yes, you can skip words you don't know, but if it's every other word, you're not being efficient.

My personal goal is to be able to read light novels. After 6k what would you suggest to get the extra 4k vocabulary?

Reading things and then putting them into anki? (Although I hate hate hate anki/flashcards, orz.)

I read a bunch of manga. I started easy, and kept reading the stuff that I found interesting. Now I'm reading manga and LNs when I have time. (Which is usually right before bed.) When reading, look up words that keep popping up. If I see a word more than twice, I look it up. If I see too many unfamiliar words, I read something easier.

If you don't feel like reading, write something. A diary, essays, rants, a blog, whatever. Just use new vocab. 日本語日記ノート can jump start you if you feel stuck (check amazon.co.jp). It starts off N5 easy, and ramps up the difficulty. Use Lang-8 for editing.

If you can't find a good vocab list, look for N2 and N1 vocab books. (JLPT N1 or N2 語彙 is what you use to search with.)

Also, books on 読解 (reading comprehension) could be useful, too. Read a book about how to read.

Thanks, Rich_f, I added the link to the list!

rich_f Wrote:When reading, look up words that keep popping up. If I see a word more than twice, I look it up. If I see too many unfamiliar words, I read something easier.

I like this!

MelonBerry Wrote:

rich_f Wrote:I would say you need to look at children's novels for now until you finish core 6k and have a good handle on grammar.

Lower the bar until you can clear it comfortably, then start inching it higher.

LNs require a solid 8k-10k word vocab, plus a good handle on grammar. You can get by with 6k, but it will be a bit of a stretch, IMO. Lots of looking up words, and that breaks the reading rhythm. Yes, you can skip words you don't know, but if it's every other word, you're not being efficient.

My personal goal is to be able to read light novels. After 6k what would you suggest to get the extra 4k vocabulary?

Reading things and then putting them into anki? (Although I hate hate hate anki/flashcards, orz.)

You'll have to go a bit out of your comfort zone or you probably won't progress very speedily. I'd suggest getting more vocab from the real world- reading novels, manga, whatever.. watching TV with subtitles etc etc.

Of course you aren't going to be reading smoothly like an expert for a while because.. you aren't an expert. Don't be afraid to break the rhythm. It takes a considerable amount of hard work to get good at another language and just because you have 6000 words from Core and a decent base of grammar doesn't mean you can make sense of real Japanese (yet).

That's a valid point drdunlap. Some people seem to think that once they get 6, 10, 12,000 cards in their decks they are going to breeze through Japanese texts – well, they will not. You may know well beyond 12,000 words but if your understanding of Japanese is lacking your reading is not going to "flow". Often you will need to read and re-read the same phrase couple of times in order to make sense out of it. Only with time and practise the understanding will come just after one reading.

[RawToast]

rich_f Wrote:I would say you need to look at children's novels for now until you finish core 6k and have a good handle on grammar.

I'd agree with this from my various attempts at higher level reading without completing core 6k. You could also try Lingq and try reading some of the material on there, I wouldn't pay for it though.

I've bought a bunch of 10 minute readers from Amazon.jp which are school graded, so it will be interesting to see how those go (I bought grade 2-6, only ~800Y each). Still waiting on delivery -- Amazon is fast though!

It doesn't matter how many words you kow at this point since you are going to be hit with a ton of unknown words. I have 16,000 words in my deck (12,000 studied so far - ~10,000 from Core 10k and 6,000 from previously read light novels). I just started another new light novel series and I added around 341 new words for the first book in the series with still 80 pages to go. The first book in a series introduces new terms usually so it will be more than usual but even I am surprised at the number of unknowns.

The problem with Core6k or word lists is that you don't really "learn" words by memorizing them, since they are most likely taken out of context, even with an example sentence, and you won't feel that you know the word unless you see it in a context or "setting" very similar to how you memorized it.

PotbellyPig Wrote:It doesn't matter how many words you kow at this point since you are going to be hit with a ton of unknown words. I have 16,000 words in my deck (12,000 studied so far - ~10,000 from Core 10k and 6,000 from previously read light novels). I just started another new light novel series and I added around 341 new words for the first book in the series with still 80 pages to go. The first book in a series introduces new terms usually so it will be more than usual but even I am surprised at the number of unknowns.

Thanks for the heads up O_O;

If anyone ends up using the links on this thread and finds them useful, please post in the thread about it so we can all hear about your reading experiences.

Also, if anyone has other links or files, or recommendations for how to organize the list, let me know. I've been a little busy with school, but I plan to keep updating it until it's a little more along the lines of a) a lot of links but also b) clumped into different routes one can go. So, it'd be great to have a section like: if you have a tablet, download this and this and set up this and you'll be on your way, or same for kindle, etc.

People are discussing the OCD nature of forever studying word lists. It sounds a lot like the conversation when people finish RTK and say 'now what?' The answer is, 'Well, now's the hard part.'
So, 'I've been learning lots of vocab, now what? when am I ready?' the answer is, 'You're not, and you never will be in a million flashcards, just raise your ambiguity tolerance and get reading.'

tashippy Wrote:So, 'I've been learning lots of vocab, now what? when am I ready?' the answer is, 'You're not, and you never will be in a million flashcards, just raise your ambiguity tolerance and get reading.'

Also a valid answer even before starting to study vocab (assuming you studied grammar first), as long as your ambiguity tolerance level is "I like puzzles!".

(First sentence of untranslated native material I ever read: 5 new words. Second sentence: 7 more new words, a conjunction and a clause... I could figure out what the sentence meant, but there were too many pieces for me to figure out why it meant what it meant).

The following is a bit of a disconnected rambling of personal experience & suggestions. =/

I started getting into reading Japanese novels around December of last year. I had been reading NHK News Easy for a few months before getting into novels though. At first, I looked around at English Japanese-learning forums for reading suggestions. Some of the ones I kept seeing were: キノの旅 by 時雨沢恵一,　キッチン by 吉本バナナ, 死神の精度 by　伊坂幸太郎　and　もしドラ by 岩崎夏海. Some easier recommended authors were: 星真一, 吉本バナナ, 村上春樹, 赤川次郎, 森絵都 and 乙一. I also looked around my library system for a bit for novels that had both Japanese and English versions. I read half of 神の子どもたちはみな踊る / After the Quake that way but looking things up was a pain. Afterwards I bought a Kindle Paperwhite and just bought books off of amazon.co.jp. It's pretty handy not having to look for physical copies of stuff anymore, and looking things up is much much easier. (It's entirely possible to unpack purchased Amazon.co.jp books into HTML pages and just read them that way, but the internet distracts me) Nowadays I generally browse novel-based drama / anime synopses and read the novels if they seem interesting. The Book-Off in my town also marks books with a movie or drama adaptation on their wall of popular novels.

I read pretty slowly though. The first book I finished (もしドラ) took me months. The seventh book I finished (謎解きはディナーのあとで) still took me 2 weeks.

Personally, reading Japanese versions of stories I already know doesn't motivate me much, but some popular options are ハリー・ポッター by J.K.ローリング, 時をかける少女　by 筒井康隆, 狼と香辛料　by 支倉凍砂, and 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 by 谷川流.

Also, I like 読書メーター as a book-tracking site. It recommends users whose reading choices are similar to yours + it lists people's impressions of books you've read. Mine's here.

anritsi Wrote:Personally, reading Japanese versions of stories I already know doesn't motivate me much, but some popular options are ハリー・ポッター by J.K.ローリング, 時をかける少女　by 筒井康隆, 狼と香辛料　by 支倉凍砂, and 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 by 谷川流.

Thanks for your contribution. I didn't like forcing myself through Harry Potter in English just to read it in Japanese just because it's one of about 5 audiobooks in the language.

But I just finished reading 'of Mice and Men' and it was great in Japanese as well. I just read the sparknotes summaries online before I started each section to refresh my memory of the story since I haven't read it since high school. Speaking of high school, now I'm trying to read 'Catcher in the Rye' as translated by Haruki Murakami. There's another translation that is older. I've been wondering if I have it in me to read that afterward just because I think it'd be interesting to read the same story written in Japanese twice and because the concept of translation kinda fascinates me.

undead_saif Wrote:The problem with Core6k or word lists is that you don't really "learn" words by memorizing them, since they are most likely taken out of context, even with an example sentence, and you won't feel that you know the word unless you see it in a context or "setting" very similar to how you memorized it.

This is why I'm sort of against vocab centric decks.