yudantaiteki Wrote:What's wrong with 本が開いた? Also I've never said 本をひらく, I just use あける with that.

http://nihognodaybydayenglish.blogspot.c...iraku.html

EDIT:
according to this document the following is correct:

本をひらく(open a book)
本がひらく(book opens)

I guess 開く（ひらく）can be used both in transitive and intransitive way.
Read the link for the explanation as to why ひらく is correct.

Which dictionary? Mine suspiciously avoids connecting the verb to the book, opening pages instead.

Vempele Wrote:Which dictionary? Mine suspiciously avoids connecting the verb to the book, opening pages instead.

Check examples from tangorin:

http://tangorin.com/examples/%E9%96%8B%E3%81%8F
http://tangorin.com/examples/%E9%96%8B%E...1%E3%82%8B

You can google the difference between ひらく and あける.

Hmm, this might be a case of prescriptive vs. actual usage; I'm pretty sure that NS say 本を開ける too. It gets millions of google hits.

yudantaiteki Wrote:Hmm, this might be a case of prescriptive vs. actual usage; I'm pretty sure that NS say 本を開ける too. It gets millions of google hits.

本を開ける（read as ほんをひらける）is incorrect. The meaning is "(I) can open the book", but using を + potential form is not correct (although used in oral speech all the time).
The correct form would be 本が開ける.

I'm pretty sure the 本を開ける results on google are meant to be read as あける, not ひらける.

I asked a native speaker and he said that 本をひらく was normal; I asked him if people say あける and he said あまり言わないね。 So it sounds like I was wrong and you should stick to ひらく.

(I still think the instances of 本を開ける showing up on google are definitely あける; the native speaker I asked may not realize that some people do use it -- as a foreigner, though, I would suggest sticking with ひらく despite the google hits. Native speakers can get away with "errors" that learners can't.)

yudantaiteki Wrote:I asked a native speaker and he said that 本をひらく was normal; I asked him if people say あける and he said あまり言わないね。 So it sounds like I was wrong and you should stick to ひらく.

I also did some research.
ひらく is for things that "unfold" when they open.
ドアがひらく (western style door)
本をひらく
花がひらく
こころをひらく (open your mind)

あく is for things that "slide" when they open OR unlock.
目をあける
ドアがあく (sliding door in subway)
鍵（かぎ）があかない (cannot unlock the [door])

I also confirmed with a native.

I'm pretty sure I've heard "doa ga hiraku" (sliding train doors) on the JR announcements on trains and subways... But I'll make sure to listen out more carefully next time for the purposes of this discussion.

Train doors use hiraku. That's why I thought hiraku was used for things that are opened indirectly (the push of a button). However, Taoromera's theory intrigues me, as it would be very useful to know if there's actually a pattern in the use of those verbs.

DrJones Wrote:Train doors use hiraku. That's why I thought hiraku was used for things that are opened indirectly (the push of a button). However, Taoromera's theory intrigues me, as it would be very useful to know if there's actually a pattern in the use of those verbs.

Oh good, I'm not just imagining it!

It would be useful to know whenever there are other pairs of verbs in Japanese similar to 開ける、開く　that are as confusing for foreigners.

ktcgx Wrote:I'm pretty sure I've heard "doa ga hiraku" (sliding train doors) on the JR announcements on trains and subways... But I'll make sure to listen out more carefully next time for the purposes of this discussion.

I seem to recall hearing this is a regional thing; in Kanto they use one and Kansai the other but I forget which one is which.

I know ドアを開ける（あける） is fine with a western door though; I guess my credibility might be low after the 本 thing above but this is one that's in lessons I've taught with native speakers and none of them have ever said anything about it.

The NS that told me about 本 said that ひらく is generally used with things that open up like gates or books; perhaps a double door would ひらく but then a regular single door would just be あく.

#423, the reading of the kanji is listed as "kawa" but that reading has been discarded in the new Joyo list, ad only "gawa" has been retained.

EDIT
#494 definition reads "cool, fresh water water"... probably should be tidied up a bit

DrJones Wrote:Train doors use hiraku.

At least here in Tokyo, the driver usually says 「ドアをひらきまーす。ドアがあきまーす」in a row. That's probably the first time I started thinking about the difference between あく and ひらく.
I guess both verbs work in some cases.

You can Google ひらく　あく　違い in Google and you will get some discussions on the subject, but everything is in Japanese, so maybe not the best resource for learners.

Taoromera Wrote:

DrJones Wrote:Train doors use hiraku.

At least here in Tokyo, the driver usually says 「ドアをひらきまーす。ドアがあきまーす」in a row. That's probably the first time I started thinking about the difference between あく and ひらく.
I guess both verbs work in some cases.

You can Google ひらく　あく　違い in Google and you will get some discussions on the subject, but everything is in Japanese, so maybe not the best resource for learners.

I can hardly ever hear what the driver is actually saying, but in the announcements they use on the Joban line, I'm pretty sure it's just "hiraku"

EDIT: the pre-recorded announcements that they made that poor woman do when she had a cold...

ktcgx Wrote:#423, the reading of the kanji is listed as "kawa" but that reading has been discarded in the new Joyo list, ad only "gawa" has been retained.

Yes, changes have been made to our flashcard list to reflect the amendments of 2010, but since it implies some slight changes in the order of other flashcards, we are still working out the best way to update the DB in our site. We will probably go with a second and final release, which will include other example sentences and so. But still not sure. I'll keep you informed.

ktcgx Wrote:EDIT
#494 definition reads "cool, fresh water water"... probably should be tidied up a bit

Thanks! Fixed.

#694 "zannen" is translated as deplorable, but I think that even though that's the first dictionary entry for the definition, "deplorable" is such a strong word, and I have never heard (in my 3 years here) "zannen" used in the same way, or with the same degree of meaning, as "deplorable" in English. I think the more usual translation of "what a shame", "what a pity" would be a better translation. I think if you keep "deplorable", a lot of learners will be very confused by the candour with which "zannen" is bandied about in Japanese, whereas "deplorable" in English is incredibly strong.

ktcgx Wrote:#694 "zannen" is translated as deplorable, but I think that even though that's the first dictionary entry for the definition, "deplorable" is such a strong word, and I have never heard (in my 3 years here) "zannen" used in the same way, or with the same degree of meaning, as "deplorable" in English. I think the more usual translation of "what a shame", "what a pity" would be a better translation. I think if you keep "deplorable", a lot of learners will be very confused by the candour with which "zannen" is bandied about in Japanese, whereas "deplorable" in English is incredibly strong.

Yes, I agree. Fixed.

#749
I think it's better to translate "tadashii" as "correct" rather than "right", because of the ease of getting it confused with "left and right".

ktcgx Wrote:#749
I think it's better to translate "tadashii" as "correct" rather than "right", because of the ease of getting it confused with "left and right".

Yes, I agree. Fixed. Thank you again

I have a quick question, how many joyo readings in total are there/ how many flashcards on your site?

ktcgx Wrote:I have a quick question, how many joyo readings in total are there/ how many flashcards on your site?

4355 now, but there will be 4383 after we upgrade the DB to reflect the changes of 2010 in the Jouyou list.

Taoromera Wrote:

ktcgx Wrote:I have a quick question, how many joyo readings in total are there/ how many flashcards on your site?

4355 now, but there will be 4383 after we upgrade the DB to reflect the changes of 2010 in the Jouyou list.

Thanks! I've always wondered just exactly how many readings there are...


EDIT:
#936: translated as journal, but a better translation would be either "journal/magazine" or just "magazine"... I'd say its usage as referring to magazine is far more common than its usage as referring to journals.

Hi, first of all, great idea and good work so far!
I do have several suggestions, feel free to take them as you please:

- Replace home screen with a choice between 'Learn' (iiKanji area) and 'Add' words, instead of putting the add words form on the home screen directly.

- Replace text on buttons "I want to study this" and "I've already mastered this" with something shorter, e.g. "Good" and "Again".

- When showing an answer, don't fade the entire page put only fade-in the answer.

- Reduce fade-in time, making reviews go faster.

- Reduce loading time of new kanji.

- Place "Have a question? Click here for help." in the rightmost corner of the screen, making it less distracting.


If you can fix these and provide a snappier, faster reviewing experience, I really am willing to pay for a subscription to your service. Again, good job so far and best of luck!