I think just adding an option to toggle furigana on and off would be enough...

ktcgx Wrote:I think just adding an option to toggle furigana on and off would be enough...

It's on its way... give us a couple of days.

For those studying on the computer, I think a useful interface addition would be to make the space bar "flip" the card, as with anki and this site. It would help to speed up going through the cards. Also, having either the Y key and N key, or the 1 key and 2 key used to input if you knew something or wanted to add it to the study page. As well as that, currently you can only add up to 30 kanji at a time. This could be optimal for learning, but some people will want to plough ahead, so perhaps changing it so you could add up to 100 kanji at a time might be useful.

Sorry, I don't mean to imply that your site is bad with all my suggestions, just that going through it gives me some ideas on how it could be tweaked... I think you've done a great job so far though!

ktcgx Wrote:For those studying on the computer, I think a useful interface addition would be to make the space bar "flip" the card, as with anki and this site. It would help to speed up going through the cards. Also, having either the Y key and N key, or the 1 key and 2 key used to input if you knew something or wanted to add it to the study page. As well as that, currently you can only add up to 30 kanji at a time. This could be optimal for learning, but some people will want to plough ahead, so perhaps changing it so you could add up to 100 kanji at a time might be useful.

Sorry, I don't mean to imply that your site is bad with all my suggestions, just that going through it gives me some ideas on how it could be tweaked... I think you've done a great job so far though!

Thanks, ktcgx. I take note of all your remarks.
Don't hesitate to give us suggestions! It feels great to know that people are actually using and learning with iiKanji.

#316 there is no sentence.

EDIT: actually it seems to continue like this. Is that intended?

ktcgx Wrote:#316 there is no sentence.

EDIT: actually it seems to continue like this. Is that intended?

ktcgx, you were quick... So, do you think that the example sentences are funnier and/or more efficient than the plain anchor word when studying flashcards?
If you think so, I will go on adding sentences tomorrow.

I guess 市場 is a bad example to learn 場 ジョウ because the word is also commonly read as いちば. The clue is not enough, I'm no beginner and I didn't know which reading was the one specifically used to define "market as a concept". In any case, I just learned something new, so that's not bad.

I do think that your app should at least make a mention of signal primitives/phonetic components like RTK2 does, as ignoring them is equivalent to make people memorize one by one what numbers from 1 to 100 are divisible by ten instead of offering the simple rule. Not only is this a waste of time, it is also a waste of mental space.

Also, does that % take into account that there are hundred of kanji (especially in the medical field) that are used every day by japanese and that don't appear on the Touyou list?

Taoromera Wrote:

ktcgx Wrote:#316 there is no sentence.

EDIT: actually it seems to continue like this. Is that intended?

ktcgx, you were quick... So, do you think that the example sentences are funnier and/or more efficient than the plain anchor word when studying flashcards?
If you think so, I will go on adding sentences tomorrow.

I think with the sentence it's less boring, and there is some context to the word.

DrJones Wrote:I guess 市場 is a bad example to learn 場 ジョウ because the word is also commonly read as いちば. The clue is not enough, I'm no beginner and I didn't know which reading was the one specifically used to define "market as a concept". In any case, I just learned something new, so that's not bad.

You're right that we shouldn't be using words with multiple readings, since it's misleading. I will change the anchor word and sentence associated.

DrJones Wrote:I do think that your app should at least make a mention of signal primitives/phonetic components like RTK2 does, as ignoring them is equivalent to make people memorize one by one what numbers from 1 to 100 are divisible by ten instead of offering the simple rule. Not only is this a waste of time, it is also a waste of mental space.

I actually think that using primitives as a way of memorizing kanji readings, or even just as a support, is not appropriate. The reason is that there are too many exceptions to the rule. Based on my personal experience, using primitives to guess the reading of a kanji was helpful for exactly that purpose, 'to guess', but not an efficient way to stick a given reading to its kanji.
I personally find that learning kanji readings using anchor words is much more efficient and straightforward than starting to do mental math to dissect the kanji, find its phonetic component and then hoping that it is not an exception. But that's maybe just me.

DrJones Wrote:Also, does that % take into account that there are hundred of kanji (especially in the medical field) that are used every day by japanese and that don't appear on the Touyou list?

Yes, it does. That's why the curve in iiKanji's presentation page tops at 92% of corpus coverage. If you learned the jouyou kanji and its jouyou readings (ie, all of iiKanji's contents), you would be able to read 92% of Japanese words. In order to be able to read the remaining 8%, you will have to learn another 3000+ kanji, their readings (sorry, don't have a figure for this), and hundreds of ateji (irregular readings).

ktcgx Wrote:I think with the sentence it's less boring, and there is some context to the word.

Thanks, ktcgx. I will start adding example sentences tomorrow!

Ok, so I've been thinking about how you can improve the lay-out of your site to make it more useful/ easier to navigate.

I think that the main benkyo.co page should open up to say "welcome to iikanji, click here to sign up" or similar, and have your presentation of why you should use the site. Then once registered it would be good to have a series of tabs across the top of the screen with labels like "list of all kanji" "kanji I have mastered" "kanji I am studying" "kanji I have not yet learnt" "my sentences: add your own sentences to study here". In the kanji list of kanji page, I think it would be helpful to be able to add kanji from that page (or certain readings of kanji) to the "kanji I have mastered" page.

Also, do you have an srs algorithm? I think some users would find it helpful to know how the kanji they're learning/ forgotten will cycle through.

I think that would be good, but of course, just a suggestion! Maybe other posters have some ideas too?

ktcgx Wrote:Ok, so I've been thinking about how you can improve the lay-out of your site to make it more useful/ easier to navigate. <snip>

Thank you again for your feedback! We are working on improving the site little by little. I'll keep you informed on how things evolve.

ktcgx Wrote:Also, do you have an srs algorithm? I think some users would find it helpful to know how the kanji they're learning/ forgotten will cycle through.

Yes, the site uses an SRS algorithm, so flashcards you study will appear again at increasing time intervals.

This situation is a bit stupid, but I got these two flashcards in a row, and with no further context to aid in separating them.

開く to open (by itself) -> answer ひらく
開く to open (by itself) -> answer あく

When I'm using my own SRS, I usually merge flashcards like these into one.

Edit: I also think the japanese font should be larger.

DrJones Wrote:This situation is a bit stupid, but I got these two flashcards in a row, and with no further context to aid in separating them.

開く to open (by itself) -> answer ひらく
開く to open (by itself) -> answer あく

When I'm using my own SRS, I usually merge flashcards like these into one.

Edit: I also think the japanese font should be larger.

I agree about the font a bit.

I think it's better to change the definitions of those words, perhaps add something like "to open by itself, eg books, to open by itself eg doors, so that users can get a sense of when to use which one.

The words that are place names should hide the translation, because it's stupid to test your knowledge of the reading of the kanji when you can directly look at the romaji. You should instead replace the translation with the corresponding "place name" or "person name/surname".

DrJones Wrote:This situation is a bit stupid, but I got these two flashcards in a row, and with no further context to aid in separating them.

開く to open (by itself) -> answer ひらく
開く to open (by itself) -> answer あく

Yes, DrJones, you're right. They are synonyms, but I will change the definition to help memorize them. Also, once we have example sentences for all flashcards, it should be easier to grasp the very subtle difference in meaning.

DrJones Wrote:Edit: I also think the japanese font should be larger.

Thanks. If a couple more people come up with the same request, we'll take action.

DrJones Wrote:The words that are place names should hide the translation, because it's stupid to test your knowledge of the reading of the kanji when you can directly look at the romaji. You should instead replace the translation with the corresponding "place name" or "person name/surname".

Yep, totally right. I will correct it to remove the romaji transcription.

So I stopped using the site because I was waiting for the sentences to be added. I'd like to continue using it, but I'd prefer to have the sentences, however, if you're too busy (totally understandable!!), I'll continue without them. Are they being added, or is that on the "to do" list?

ktcgx Wrote:So I stopped using the site because I was waiting for the sentences to be added. I'd like to continue using it, but I'd prefer to have the sentences, however, if you're too busy (totally understandable!!), I'll continue without them. Are they being added, or is that on the "to do" list?

ktcgx, thanks to the feedback from this forum, the flashcards list is being amended little by little. For example, the amendments to the jouyou kanji list of 2010 have been included. Due to this, minimal changes in the order of the flashcards have arisen, which prevented me from adding example sentences.

So yes, it is in our To Do list now, as we are also figuring out which are the most requested features by our users.

I'll get back to you when we decide on what to do next, but for now, please go ahead without example sentences.

Really great site! Enjoying it so far. I really like the sample sentences.

mhaellix Wrote:Really great site! Enjoying it so far. I really like the sample sentences.

Thank you, mhaellix! Comments like this keep us motivated to further improve iiKanji.

Please, take the time to give us some feedback about features you would like to see or change. A pop-up should appear in a couple of days after you log in to iiKanji.

何故 is another bad choice of word, that kanji combination is usually read なぜ; in fact, my IME refuses to automatically convert なにゆえ to 何故, while I have no troubles converting なぜ. For that reading, I suggest replacing that word with 故に.

Thanks for the changes done to the site, by the way. It's much better now.

DrJones Wrote:何故 is another bad choice of word, that kanji combination is usually read なぜ; in fact, my IME refuses to automatically convert なにゆえ to 何故, while I have no troubles converting なぜ. For that reading, I suggest replacing that word with 故に.

Totally! As for the case of 市場 you kindly pointed out, using 何故, which has an ambiguous reading, as anchor word is not a good idea. I changed it to 故に, which is indeed the second most frequent word using 故 with the reading ユエ.

DrJones Wrote:Thanks for the changes done to the site, by the way. It's much better now.

I will let the programmer know

ktcgx Wrote:

DrJones Wrote:This situation is a bit stupid, but I got these two flashcards in a row, and with no further context to aid in separating them.

開く to open (by itself) -> answer ひらく
開く to open (by itself) -> answer あく

When I'm using my own SRS, I usually merge flashcards like these into one.

Edit: I also think the japanese font should be larger.

I agree about the font a bit.

I think it's better to change the definitions of those words, perhaps add something like "to open by itself, eg books, to open by itself eg doors, so that users can get a sense of when to use which one.

Actually those aren't synonyms. Those are completely different words used in completely different situations.

本を開く（to open a book)ーひらく (active)
本を閉じる（to close book, eyes, meeting, etc.) - とじる
----

ドアが開いた（door opened by itself)ーあく (passive)
ドアを開ける (to open a door) - あける
ドアを閉じる（to close door, gate, window, etc.) しめる

You can't say:
本が開いた
ドアを開く


Basically those are two completely different verbs. You have to learn whenever 開く（ひらく）or 開ける（あける）　should be used with each noun.

EDIT:
I'm not sure how to say "a/the book opened itself". Maybe someone who knows Japanese better than I can help.

What's wrong with 本が開いた? Also I've never said 本をひらく, I just use あける with that.