First of all this isn't necessarily on the topic of working in Japan, so I thought to make a post here instead. Anyway,

For those of you currently working in Japan, out of curiosity, how much adversity have you had to deal with in the past to get to where you are now? Did you simply just go to college, move to Japan, and get a good career or have you had to work slave wages, deal with poverty, or go through a career change or midlife crisis to get to your current point in life? There are a lot of insightful and learned people here, and I can't help but wonder about the backgrounds of people.

As for myself, I am only 21 and am in a sort of transitional phase, having to both find a job and get accepted to a college to transfer to so I can get my B.A. (and do English teaching in Japan afterward). It's a difficult age to be, for anyone who's been there, having to sort out things in life in preparation for the future. And so I wouldn't mind listening to stories of perseverance and achievement you may all have, if only to give myself confidence for the future. So does anyone want to share?

I'm not quite there but almost (currently in the middle of 就活, going well).

I started learning Japanese 4 years ago, somewhat desperate to get out of my home country. After graduating from university I entered a Japanese graduate school which has just about given me enough time to be fluent as possible in the language before having to start job hunting (but the online employment tests are still somewhat iffy - working on that part).

If you're a foreigner who's strong academically/skillwise and can navigate tests, interviews and write entry sheets in Japanese then this can work. There are plenty of Asian international students who do this, but I've hardly seen any westerners (unless they have an extremely strong motivation to be here or can get into a dream job that pays an internationally competitive wage that isn't suppressed by 年功序列, there's not much reason for them to go down the native Japanese route).

I've had to rewrite this a few times because it devolves into a bit of bitching.

My advice to you is to really consider what you want to do. Thats very hard to do though. When I was 21-23, I didn't have any idea what I wanted to do. I didn't figure it out till I was graduating with a useless degree way outside where I needed to be and with little formal experience.

I currently work as an ALT here in Japan and I've been here 3 years now. Its taken me about this long to realize that my best options are to suck up the fact that I can't find a job here and go back to the states for Grad school/interns or a job. Once I get 2-3 years of experience, then I can come back to Japan with a better resume and probably stand a better chance.

Let me just state it as short as possible. ALT/Eikaiwa/Teaching in Japan (outside of maybe University, even that is a bit iffy since getting tenure is hard) isn't a career. It lacks advancement options and pay raises. It can also be difficult to even do something as 'simple' as take a holiday mid week. That said, the pay is respectively better than other low wage style jobs in other countries, and depending on how you live, you can live comfortably. It only becomes a problem when you would like to move up a little, such as get a larger apartment (instead of a 1K) or move closer to the city. Suddenly, you go from having a bit of money left over at the end of the month, to having almost none.

I'll leave this last thought here.
The one amazing thing I've watched over the years here in this country is how this country tends to throw people off. Of the some 20-30 that came and studied abroad, only about 4-5 of us came back to live in Japan. Of the people I know outside of that, many people that I talk to that don't even work in education now, often talk about leaving this country "soon." This country wears many people down. The people that do stay around for years, have one thing in common though and that's actual social connections. Either they have a number of good Japanese friends, a Japanese GF/BF, or are married. People without any of those often tend to leave after 2-10 years of being here.

If you want more details on stuff, just ask, many of us here work in many different parts of Japanese employment.

Just (try) to know yourself.

Thanks for the responses so far.

I already quite know what I want to do in the long run, and that is music composition for media. There are a few big reasons why I am putting that on hold, though. The first is that, because of my financial limitations, the only college that I can attend without obtaining loads of debt is a liberal arts college within my city (hence, why I said I will be getting a B.A. instead of a B.M. or whatever else, which just so happens to be advantageous for the Japan gig). The second reason is that the media industry is very difficult to break into, and I'm going to need years to develop my craft, but I need to be doing something else that can I can live on in the mean time (teaching). Hence, this is where I arrive at ALT/Eikaiwa opportunities.

I also am confident that I would be a very good teacher, and it's also worth noting that I enjoy teaching, whatever the subject. I have heard there are some horror stories related to Eikaiwa, etc., teachers, but it doesn't deter me--I've been in some of the worst working situations here in the States (fast-food) that I feel that even an unfavorable working environment won't break me. I believe that if I stand as a positive, assertive person that I will not be mistreated or taken advantage of in the workplace.

I don't have very many job options here in the States that I can see myself working in (let alone get into), as another reason why I want to teach in Japan. It's either I endure minimum-wage employment or join the military. I've made some great connections with some Japanese students who studied abroad here not too long ago, so I don't think I will be a ghost with no community upon going to Japan. I am determined to go there, especially if I can make more money in that country, right now, than I can in my own.

Anyway, as for the long-term goal. Who knows? With enough time, commitment, and networking, I may be able to break into music composition in Japan. It would undoubtedly be difficult, but as long as that possibility is there, I'm going for it.

KanjiCrosser Wrote:Thanks for the responses so far.

I already quite know what I want to do in the long run, and that is music composition for media. There are a few big reasons why I am putting that on hold, though. The first is that, because of my financial limitations, the only college that I can attend without obtaining loads of debt is a liberal arts college within my city (hence, why I said I will be getting a B.A. instead of a B.M. or whatever else, which just so happens to be advantageous for the Japan gig). The second reason is that the media industry is very difficult to break into, and I'm going to need years to develop my craft, but I need to be doing something else that can I can live on in the mean time (teaching). Hence, this is where I arrive at ALT/Eikaiwa opportunities.

I also am confident that I would be a very good teacher, and it's also worth noting that I enjoy teaching, whatever the subject. I have heard there are some horror stories related to Eikaiwa, etc., teachers, but it doesn't deter me--I've been in some of the worst working situations here in the States (fast-food) that I feel that even an unfavorable working environment won't break me. I believe that if I stand as a positive, assertive person that I will not be mistreated or taken advantage of in the workplace.

I don't have very many job options here in the States that I can see myself working in (let alone get into), as another reason why I want to teach in Japan. It's either I endure minimum-wage employment or join the military. I've made some great connections with some Japanese students who studied abroad here not too long ago, so I don't think I will be a ghost with no community upon going to Japan. I am determined to go there, especially if I can make more money in that country, right now, than I can in my own.

Anyway, as for the long-term goal. Who knows? With enough time, commitment, and networking, I may be able to break into music composition in Japan. It would undoubtedly be difficult, but as long as that possibility is there, I'm going for it.

I wish you the best of luck, getting into the music industry anywhere in the world is challenging. How about get your bachelors here in the States, then if your Japanese gets good enough, do your masters in Japan. Not only you would get a lot of contacts, future employers will know that you have experience in the country and maybe not act like a total gaijin.

Or

Get your bachelors and Masters in the States. Then do your first couple of years working in the States. It should help give you a strong background of working experience. Finding contacts and a job may be still challenging, but I'm sure you will get payed more. American education is very powerful worldwide.

There are plenty of jobs in Japan. You just have to be worth hiring despite the visa and/or language issues. And you need to be realistic regarding the language issue in that you'll need to be very good before it becomes not an issue when working in a normal japanese work environment (non english teaching job). Lower communicative ability and visa issues may be overlooked if you're being specifically hired in part for your english ability (translation etc). An employer has to go through a bit of red tape when hiring foreigners and sponsoring visas. They need to justify hiring you over a local, demonstrate sufficient pay (so no internships), and submit company information to immigration, all of which takes at least a couple of weeks. My company had to shorten the trial period before full-time employment in order to ensure they could sponsor my visa which was about to run out. I would have had like a week to pack up (in another city) and leave Japan if I didn't get the full time offer.

Xanpakuto Wrote:How about get your bachelors here in the States, then if your Japanese gets good enough, do your masters in Japan.

I would of course be paying international tuition if I were to get my masters in Japan, right? I'll still consider that possibility, though.

That's all if I choose the education route for that career interest, however. I think that, at least in the arts, personal content--what you can deliver--can be just as desirable, or even more so, than a degree. Of course, it's most preferable to have both.

I first came to Japan when I was 19 (volunteer work) and then again at 24 (ALT work). The original plan was to spend a couple of years travelling and deciding what I wanted to do with my science degree. After a couple of years the Japanese learning was going better than I expected, so I decided to stay on a couple more years and then try to move onto something which was more science related, but also allowed me to use my Japanese. Now I work translating patents, which although not directly related to my degree, does allow me to think about something a bit more technical than singing English songs to children.

I don't think I ever had to go through anything particularly difficult. My ALT job was very well paid considering the work and was also enjoyable, but maybe lacking any real responsibilities or mental challenge. My current job is less well paid considering the work, but is much more of a challenge and has more chance of career development. I’ve been lucky that I’ve never had to experience the ridiculous working conditions that some Japanese people put up with. Also, through a combination of good luck and preparation I was able to find a post-ALT job pretty quickly once I started searching.

English teaching is a good option to bring in some money while you focus on other interests. It’s easy to get stuck in though, especially if you don’t have any other immediate job prospects. The pay is ok for a new graduate and once you get used to having money it’ll be harder to go back to being a poor student, even if that’s what would be better for your career prospects in the long-term.

Most of the people I know who have transitioned from English teaching to something more related to their career goals while in Japan have worked very actively to achieve it. If you decide to take the English teaching route, you probably need to set yourself smaller targets that you can stick to and that you know how to accomplish, rather than just having a vague end goal with no pathway there.

I came to Japan after finishing my bachelors degree in 2008. I started out as an ALT in Shikoku with the JET Program. My longer term at that time was to stay on the JET program for 3 years until I learned a decent amount of Japanese and eventually make a move up to Tokyo. I ended up going from zero to N2 level in those first 3 years. While on JET I fell deeper in love with the country, and also deep in love with a Japanese woman I met in Osaka, we were engaged just before I left the JET program.

After about a year into JET, I started actively researching and working on by personal goal of breaking into the Japanese corporate world in Tokyo. I quickly found out that this would be an incredibly difficult transition to make, and I had no intention of teaching anything in Tokyo. I decided to return to the US and get an MBA. I ended up being accepted to a program where I could get my MBA and study business Japanese at the same time. While in the program, I landed an internship (basically through sheer luck) at a major Japanese internet services company; my foot was in the door. I worked my ass off for three months there, coming in early and leaving late almost every night, and eventually was offered a full time position with pay and benefits well beyond what I ever dreamed of.

Fast forward six months - I'm basically living the dream that I set for myself 5 years ago - I successfully reached a high level of Japanese and transitioned from the ALT world into the Tokyo corporate world. However, now that I'm here, I can't help but to think ahead to the point in time where I will have to choose between either having a successful long-term career or continuing to live in Japan. That day is approaching faster than I expected.

While my wife and I can live very comfortably here for the time being, there very much is a "rice ceiling" in my company and in the Japanese business world in general (including foreign companies). I can look around my own company and at other similar companies in Tokyo and very quickly determine that I will never rise to 課長 level and above...as well as dozens of other major career-related difficulties and headaches.

To sum things up, I'm probably going to have a good 7 or 8 year run in Japan, then call it a day and move back to America (or possibly Singapore) and get my career path back on track. I will take what I learned here in Japan with me for the rest of my life.

If anyone wants to ask any questions about working in Japan, either on the JET program or in the corporate world, you can ask me at any time.

KanjiCrosser Wrote:I would of course be paying international tuition if I were to get my masters in Japan, right? I'll still consider that possibility, though.

Be aware that loan options don't really exist for foreigners in Japan, unless they are married or have a Japanese person to co-sign (and even then I hear its hard). Some schools might be able to offer you financial support for your masters, but you'd have to be a full student (ie: Passed entrance exam).

Doing my masters in Japan was something I had looked into for a good long while, but wanting to make sure I go to a well known school and getting the money to fund it, makes it difficult. If you can get the MEXT scholarship, then its a decent option. Otherwise, you'll need savings.

Womacks23 Wrote:While my wife and I can live very comfortably here for the time being, there very much is a "rice ceiling" in my company and in the Japanese business world in general (including foreign companies). I can look around my own company and at other similar companies in Tokyo and very quickly determine that I will never rise to 課長 level and above...

Why? Are you not a 正社員? Or are foreigners just not considered for management positions, even if they are 正社員? Please explain.

I thought it was pretty obvious that he meant that if you aren't Japanese you won't ever make it past a certain point in company structure by going through the ranks, which is something that Japanese can do.

Going back to the states for a few years might be worthwhile especially if it leads to experience at higher rungs in the corp ladder. Might be able to come back to Japan and land a position as an executive.

i don't know but one reason for the 'rice ceiling' could be that non-japanese may not be as committed to the country/company and as such may seem a more risky proposition for promotion to a higher responsibility position. I can also imagine that a higher degree of skill in japanese communication could be required for dealing with clients, business partners, investors etc. So if you can allay these fears, does the ceiling still apply? I wonder if it's less of an issue for smaller/newer companies.

vileru Wrote:Why? Are you not a 正社員? Or are foreigners just not considered for management positions, even if they are 正社員? Please explain.

正社員 and yes the basic problem is that foreigners are simply not promoted to significant management positions.

@dareka

There are really only a handful of companies in Japan hiring large numbers of foreigners as 正社員. Most of them are newish tech companies - Rakuten, Dena, Gree, etc. all of them are less than 20 years old but have huge problems retaining and developing foreign staff.

@vid86

You're exactly right. Japanese companies (that I deal with - tech industry) do not develop foreign staff. The internal career path is too narrow to get the experience necessary to take on large responsibilities. The few foreign staff in upper management came in with years of experience and executive level hires. The only way to go up is to go out.

Womacks23 Wrote:There are really only a handful of companies in Japan hiring large numbers of foreigners as 正社員.

I think this statement gives the wrong impression. If you are a foreigner who can speak nearly fluent Japanese, are 1 year away from graduating from a good Japanese university or have a good amount of directly applicable experience in a similar work environment and want to work in Japan long term, almost any "prestigious" Japanese company will be interested from my experience. The issue is just that such candidates (particularly westerners) are very uncommon, and the few that exist naturally end up attracted to more "international" companies. Honestly how many westerners do you meet who say "I want to work for 日本生命" or "It's my dream to join 村田製作所"? And how many are really socially equipped to become 課長 or 部長 of an otherwise entirely Japanese team? The fact that the Japanese 就活/転職 system doesn't provide much leeway for people from overseas (including 帰国子女) is a whole other matter.

Foreigners are statistically unlikely to be high up the ladder in any country on the whole but if you're highly integrated (culturally and linguistically) and possess the right skill set here I get the feeling that it can actually be beneficial to be here. At least for me, when I was back in my home country I was competing with many people from similar backgrounds with little to differentiate myself. In Japan the competition is lower academically+skill wise, speaking English is a real selling point and it's easy to stand out and be remembered just on the basis of being foreign.

dizmox Wrote:Honestly how many westerners do you meet who say "I want to work for 日本生命" or "It's my dream to join 村田製作所"?

I would absolutely love to work for 豊和工業株式会社 or ミネベア株式会社 in the future.

dizmox Wrote:Foreigners are statistically unlikely to be high up the ladder in any country on the whole

I get the feeling this is completely false when you consider Western countries. Without digging up statistics, I just feel like I hear about a lot more people from other countries working in upper management at companies in the US/EU/Australia. Is it the case in Japan/Korea/China that foreigners might not make up the ranks up top? Sure, but I don't think it holds true when you look at vast majority of other countries.

Much of the western world, especially the anglosphere, has much larger numbers of foreigners though. US/Canada/Australia would all have foreign born populations of at least 20% imagine in the bigger cities at least. Compared to 1% or so for Japan.

KanjiCrosser Wrote:First of all this isn't necessarily on the topic of working in Japan, so I thought to make a post here instead. Anyway,

For those of you currently working in Japan, out of curiosity, how much adversity have you had to deal with in the past to get to where you are now? Did you simply just go to college, move to Japan, and get a good career or have you had to work slave wages, deal with poverty, or go through a career change or midlife crisis to get to your current point in life? There are a lot of insightful and learned people here, and I can't help but wonder about the backgrounds of people.

As for myself, I am only 21 and am in a sort of transitional phase, having to both find a job and get accepted to a college to transfer to so I can get my B.A. (and do English teaching in Japan afterward). It's a difficult age to be, for anyone who's been there, having to sort out things in life in preparation for the future. And so I wouldn't mind listening to stories of perseverance and achievement you may all have, if only to give myself confidence for the future. So does anyone want to share?

Look up Eyobe1 and his Youtube series. He used to be an exchange student there, and ended up going back to work.

mutley Wrote:If you decide to take the English teaching route, you probably need to set yourself smaller targets that you can stick to and that you know how to accomplish, rather than just having a vague end goal with no pathway there.

Just out of curiosity, what are some examples of these smaller targets to aim for? Some targets that I have made toward reaching the goal of English teaching include getting my B.A., attaining Japanese fluency (possibly taking JLPT), and intensively honing my English grammar skills. Is there any more that I can do in preparation aside from traveling to Japan? (as I do not currently have the funds).

Womacks23 Wrote:If anyone wants to ask any questions about working in Japan, either on the JET program or in the corporate world, you can ask me at any time.

I do have some questions to ask you, if you wouldn't mind answering (Maybe others can help with these, too).

1. I have heard that there is free health coverage within the JET program--is this true? And, typically, how is the coverage, what does it cover, and what does it not cover?

2. I have seen English teaching salaries ranging from 250,000 - 300,000 yen per month. Is this enough to live on alone anywhere in Japan except Tokyo (and maybe Osaka)? How much are living expenses, generally, on average? (divided between rent, utilities, transportation, food, etc.).

3. Do the JET and other programs still hire entry-level teachers overseas? If so, is air fair paid for or not? I heard of people getting hired that way by a company called NOVA, which now apparently has gone bankrupt.

4. And, as a follow-up to the previous question, if being hired overseas is out of the question, does that mean one must obtain a visitor visa, fly over, and stay temporarily, at their own expense, while going for interviews? (There is no working holiday visa here).

5. Lastly, I have made a list of things that I would need to get to be able to go about this whole business, from getting things I need here to requirements that I must meet to do the job. Is there anything else that should be included in the following?:

Before job:
>>Passport + Visitor Visa
>>1-way air fair (or roundtrip?)
>>Living expenses for short-term stay

Job requirements:
>>Bachelor's degree
>>Come from English-speaking country
>>English is native language
>>Basic Japanese fluency
(>>Working visa is sponsored)

dizmox Wrote:Foreigners are statistically unlikely to be high up the ladder in any country on the whole but if you're highly integrated (culturally and linguistically) and possess the right skill set here I get the feeling that it can actually be beneficial to be here. At least for me, when I was back in my home country I was competing with many people from similar backgrounds with little to differentiate myself. In Japan the competition is lower academically+skill wise, speaking English is a real selling point and it's easy to stand out and be remembered just on the basis of being foreign.

My experience rings true with this.

I feel like there is also a certain amount of protection that being a foreigner gets you. You can speak more directly than a Japanese person would in your position. No one criticizes you for it because everyone knows it's in your culture to do so. It's possible to use this power to really get things done and invoke a positive change. This seems to be the type of thing noticed by the people above you.

KanjiCrosser Wrote:2. I have seen English teaching salaries ranging from 250,000 - 300,000 yen per month. Is this enough to live on alone anywhere in Japan except Tokyo (and maybe Osaka)? How much are living expenses, generally, on average? (divided between rent, utilities, transportation, food, etc.).

It's enough anywhere, most graduate starting salaries are about that if you include bonus+housing support.

KanjiCrosser Wrote:Just out of curiosity, what are some examples of these smaller targets to aim for? Some targets that I have made toward reaching the goal of English teaching include getting my B.A., attaining Japanese fluency (possibly taking JLPT), and intensively honing my English grammar skills. Is there any more that I can do in preparation aside from traveling to Japan? (as I do not currently have the funds).

If you are serious about teaching English in Japan, I would get a real teaching certificate and 2-3 years of real teaching experience in the US before coming to Japan. ALT positions tend to dead end very quickly and you'll find that your worrying about "Are my skills enough? Maybe I should get more education and English grammar classes?" will be overkill for most of what ALT positions expect of you. In a lot of rural ALT positions the extent of your job duties is being the token foreigner at the school and holding up cards and repeating words. You'll have more leeway in the Elementary Schools to do actual teaching, but that is kids and the 'teaching' tends to border on "Let's play games!!" Current Japan curriculum doesn't have kids learning to even write till they are in Junior High School (They spend 6 years only speaking English and then are given 2 weeks to learn how to read and write before they start cramming vocab).

With your real experience running a class you might be able to get a position at an International school in the country running a class on your, or move into university level classes. In these positions your pay actually goes up and you have respect within the system. I really want to stress the former, because in most cases, if you are a dispatch ALT or an Eikaiwa, your pay is going to be locked with only small increases in pay each year. You'll also constantly be up for re-contracting ever year, meaning you could suddenly find yourself without employment come the next year. This is another reason why International schools are better since they are more like full-time positions (正社員). The mid way between these two positions is the Direct Hire ALT. These are closer to 正社員 but not really, the contracts are usually just longer than dispatch, but I don't think the pay moves much, but you get more than a dispatch. You might also have more responsibilities.

You will never be a full/real teacher in the Japanese school system.

KanjiCrosser Wrote:1. I have heard that there is free health coverage within the JET program--is this true? And, typically, how is the coverage, what does it cover, and what does it not cover?

Health coverage on JET is simply the National health insurance. It covers 70% of all medical fees up to a certain amount at which point it covers 100%. You pay 30%. Seeing the doctor for a cold or the like, is dirt cheap though compared to the US. Its really good. Only the EU and other countries with free healthcare can really complain.

KanjiCrosser Wrote:2. I have seen English teaching salaries ranging from 250,000 - 300,000 yen per month. Is this enough to live on alone anywhere in Japan except Tokyo (and maybe Osaka)? How much are living expenses, generally, on average? (divided between rent, utilities, transportation, food, etc.).

This pay is good in most places. It will let you live in a 1K (1 bedroom/Kitchen) very nicely. Frugality will dictate how much you can save.

KanjiCrosser Wrote:3. Do the JET and other programs still hire entry-level teachers overseas? If so, is air fair paid for or not? I heard of people getting hired that way by a company called NOVA, which now apparently has gone bankrupt.

Only JET covers the RETURN ticket. And they only cover it when you are finished and ready to leave. Pretty much everywhere takes entry level teachers because the number of people with experience would scoff at the idea of going to work in the system. The work in Japan as an ALT/Eikaiwa is only really good for resume building and that is only good for 1 year maybe, and that's even debatable (I've heard numerous stories about HR at companies in Japan that will throw out all resumes that list any time spent as ALT/Eikaiwa here).

KanjiCrosser Wrote:4. And, as a follow-up to the previous question, if being hired overseas is out of the question, does that mean one must obtain a visitor visa, fly over, and stay temporarily, at their own expense, while going for interviews? (There is no working holiday visa here).

Most large dispatch companies and Eikaiwas have rolling hiring systems. With dispatch, they usually bring over new hires in 6 month rotations. So you'd start applying in January or August. Eikaiwa its constant since they tend to constantly require new teachers (high burnout rate). These companies will do interviews and screening in your home country. In the instance you live somewhere odd, many will let you use Skype.

KanjiCrosser Wrote:5. Lastly, I have made a list of things that I would need to get to be able to go about this whole business, from getting things I need here to requirements that I must meet to do the job. Is there anything else that should be included in the following?:

I'll simplify the list

To be considered for ALT/Eikaiwa:
>> Be alive and breathing
>> Bachelors degree
>> Speak passable English

To get the job and make it to Japan:
>> Passport
>> 1-way plane ticket
>> About 2000USD - 5000USD

A small number of companies might be willing to advance you a loan to cover set up costs. Most of that money is for setting up an apartment here which can be very pricey. Plus some furnishings and waiting till you get your first pay check.

Anyone know anything about engineering jobs in Japan for foreigners?

[s0apgun]

^ Also interested in this. I'm planning to move to Japan and teach english until I'm settled then search for engineering work.