As if any of this should be surprising to anyone? Three months to fluency in any language whatsoever is a joke at best and a gross understanding of the meaning of fluency at worst. Make the language in question one of the most difficult languages in the world for Western learners and it's shocking that anybody thought even some order of success was even marginally possible. You don't "hack" languages, you work your God-damned ass off. Unless you're selling ad space on a blog, of course.

EDIT: Hah, the very next sentence to pop up in my sentence deck after replying in this thread was: 「学習にやさしい過程などない。」

Tzadeck Wrote:I've largely reserved judgement on Benny until now... but this just seems dishonest. If Japanese kicked your ass, just say it did. 3 months is supposed to be a goal, not a promise, so why avoid saying you failed?

Perhaps it is because he is selling a new book (announced early January, to be sold in March). The book is called Fluent in 3 Months: How Anyone at Any Age Can Learn to Speak Any Language from Anywhere in the World. It would be inconvenient to announce his new book and only days later announcing "Japanese kicked my ass. I failed".

In any case, I guess he won't be doing RTK (in case you forgot, he once mentioned that he was going to do RTK after completing the 3 month Japanese). That would have been interesting.

afterglowefx Wrote:You don't "hack" languages, you work your God-damned ass off. Unless you're selling ad space on a blog, of course.

If nothing else, at least with his new book, we can finally learn how he "hacked" the languages he had done so far.

I'm not buying or reading it though so someone else will have to scrutinize it.

Re-opened to discuss the end of Benny's experiment with Japanese. Please be civil and do not engage in personal attacks towards either Benny Lewis or your fellow community members.

(1)
Current level: "Advanced Beginner"
Time to reach above goal: 2.5 months

Current status: Enjoying Japan, learning Japanese is put on hold.

His goal: "Fluent"
Time left: 2 weeks.

Can he do it?

(2)
His new book "Fluent in 3 Months: How Anyone at Any Age Can Learn to Speak Any Language from Anywhere in the World".
Release date: March

Intro:

Quote:Benny Lewis, who speaks ten languages and counting—all self-taught—runs the largest language-learning blog in the world, Fluent In 3 Months. Lewis is a full-time "language hacker," someone who devotes all of his time to finding better, faster, and more efficient ways to learn languages. Fluent in 3 Months: How Anyone at Any Age Can Learn to Speak Any Language from Anywhere in the World is a new blueprint for fast language learning. His approach is different from other language programs as he encourages readers to avoid studying, ignore grammar, and start speaking from day one. Lewis argues that you don't need a great memory or "the language gene" to learn a language quickly, and debunks a number of long-held beliefs, such as children are better language learners.

Blurb:

Quote:An Unconventional Guide to Start Speaking a New Language Today

Benny Lewis is the creator of http://www.fluentin3months.com, the largest language learning blog in the world. His proven techniques break down language learning myths and replace them with practical "language hacks" that take advantage of the skills we already possess. Fluent in 3 Months provides everything you need to make learning a new language fast, intuitive, and fun.

Reviews:

Derek Sivers, founder of CD Baby and author of Anything You Want Wrote:“The most humanistic, holistic, realistic book about language learning ever written. I actually got teary–eyed at how naturally and powerfully it helps you overcome a lifetime of fear and procrastination. A must-read for anyone wanting to learn another language.”

Chris Guillebeau, New York Times Bestselling Author of The $100 Startup Wrote:“Plenty of books can teach you the dusty methods of studying grammar and vocabulary lists. Fluent in 3 Months is the one to read if you want to actually communicate...quickly. Buy this book and prepare to experience the world-no matter where you live or travel.”

Can this book deliver on its promises?

Who's preordering?

I won't preorder, but I'll probably pick it up at some point. He does say that it includes methods beyond his own, so there's that.

For someone like me who is much more interested in understanding over actively talking, it doesn't sound like a very helpful book so no I'm not going to buy it. To be honest I got a pretty bad impression of the guy too from the posts in this thread so I probably wouldn't buy it anyway.

qwertyytrewq Wrote:Chris Guillebeau, New York Times Bestselling Author of The $100 Startup

I was reading the 1 star reviews for that book and most of the complaints are about it offering vague advice and not being realistic EG. the people who had successful "$100 startups" were working as 6-figure lawyers beforehand or had some rich friends or came from a privileged (and rich) family etc...

So for Benny's book to be officially endorsed by that author, to me, counts as a negative. Hopefully Benny's book on how to be fluent in 3 months will be a detailed step by step process, rather than a vague account that is missing the whole middle bit (EG. get $100, something something, get rich!).

I'll probably buy his book to read just because he seems to be an interesting character. I wouldn't expect to gain anything substantial from it though.

I didn't know this guy. The video Zgarbas posted on the first page is helarious. So true, he has the same accent in every language. But I am afraid there are too many books on my reading list already, so I won't look into this one.

Considering I haven't read a book in English for several months now, despite buying them, I don't think I'll be getting his book. I like the core point of his method ('you can't learn to speak without speaking, so just do it'), but I consider his blog to be more of a motivational blog with some learning tips sprinkled in; I think his book will be mostly the same (I'm not saying it will, just that it might).
If I see it in the store, I might flip through it.

sholum Wrote:I like the core point of his method ('you can't learn to speak without speaking, so just do it'), but I consider his blog to be more of a motivational blog with some learning tips sprinkled in

Sounds like a description of AJAAT except replace 'you can't learn to speak without speaking, so just do it' with 'you can't learn without immersion, so just do it'

The guy's blog is pretty helpful, at least it was to me. I discovered two articles aimed at people learning Japanese that were written by guest authors. One was about how to finish RTK in 3 months, and another was how to become "fluent" in Japanese in a year (at least I think that's what it was).

So he isn't just about using his own method, as the blog branches out into other methods as well. And the concept of language hacking, at least me, seems to primarily involve finding methods that can decrease the amount of time it takes to learn a language, how to make learning a language fun, and how to efficiently utilize the time you can afford in a day to language learning.

For example: RTK, mnemonics, and SRS. I consider those three things to be language hacking. RTK helps to break down learning kanji into smaller pieces that can be easier to recognize and digest. Mnemonic devices help a learner to remember something they're trying to learn. And SRS helps with retention. All of which can drastically cut down time spent learning.

Other things that I consider to be a language hack are creating an environment that you can immerse yourself in that's oriented around your target language -- that way you can enjoy something in your target language without the learning process always seeming like it's a difficult chore, and also utilizing the little bits of time you have throughout the day by doing something in your target language (be it reviewing on the bus or listening to a podcast while working out at the gym, etc).

I read all of those things on his blog. So it's actually been quite helpful and encouraging.

qwertyytrewq Wrote:

sholum Wrote:I like the core point of his method ('you can't learn to speak without speaking, so just do it'), but I consider his blog to be more of a motivational blog with some learning tips sprinkled in

Sounds like a description of AJAAT except replace 'you can't learn to speak without speaking, so just do it' with 'you can't learn without immersion, so just do it'

Pretty much, but his writing style is a bit more professional, so some people would probably prefer it to 'yo mama' jokes and such (or maybe not).
I don't think either method is particularly helpful when done as they say: complete immersion is impractical and inefficient at the beginner stage and speaking to people after reading one or two phrase books is just not something most people are up to trying and I doubt it would help much at that stage (I'm sure I don't need to tell this to you, though).
Which is why I say they are motivational blogs with some learning tips sprinkled in. Of course, to people who hang around here, I doubt any of the tips would be new to them (the only thing I learned about from Fi3M first was Learning with Texts, but I never got into using it).

So yeah, they're pretty much the same kind of site, just with a different flavor.

To me, that would seem to be the best conclusion for 3 Months and AJAAT: Both are motivational/life coaching blogs where motivational-type writings outnumber actual language learning strategies. The main difference is the former has a more "professional" feel and the latter has a casual tone.

I guess they have their purpose in this world: most mainstream language learners are lazy, naive and/or lack the drive so they need blogs like these to remind them that a language is worth learning.

Serious learners though would probably prefer websites like RTK because that's where the meat of language learning is and where you actually make non-superficial progress.

TsugiAshi Wrote:Other things that I consider to be a language hack are creating an environment that you can immerse yourself in that's oriented around your target language -- that way you can enjoy something in your target language without the learning process always seeming like it's a difficult chore, and also utilizing the little bits of time you have throughout the day by doing something in your target language (be it reviewing on the bus or listening to a podcast while working out at the gym, etc).

I read all of those things on his blog. So it's actually been quite helpful and encouraging.

Sounds like verbatim AJATT.

I pre-ordered his book. I like him a lot and enjoy his videos he makes of himself learning languages even though I don't think anyone is fluent after 3 months of studying. There isn't any way. I think if you rephrased that to say conversational for basic conversations it would be better. But regardless I know when I hit that 'basic conversational' level for the 1st time with German it was a great feeling and even though I wasn't fluent I kind of felt like I was. I don't remember exactly how long it took me to get there. But it was a great feeling and i got hooked on language learning for life.

I have no idea what his book will be about or if it'll be actually useful to me but since I know it will be about learning languages and probably have a lot of autobiographical anecdotes I'm sure I'll enjoy reading it. I think I can read any book about language learning and enjoy it no matter what.

Yeah, if Benny gave himself the goal of passing the N2 within say half the time that is considered reasonable, that would probably make it more fun for me to follow. But it would take a year I think at least and three months of his life for Japanese is already a lot when he's got other things going on and other languages to work on. I think what Benny does is more about getting people who aren't into studying foreign languages interested. Basically, people who aren't in these forums or maybe who are new to them. Those of us who are hooked already get that language learning is fun and rewarding. We don't need his blog to show us something we already know.

I'm rambling. anyway.

ryuudou Wrote:

TsugiAshi Wrote:Other things that I consider to be a language hack are creating an environment that you can immerse yourself in that's oriented around your target language -- that way you can enjoy something in your target language without the learning process always seeming like it's a difficult chore, and also utilizing the little bits of time you have throughout the day by doing something in your target language (be it reviewing on the bus or listening to a podcast while working out at the gym, etc).

I read all of those things on his blog. So it's actually been quite helpful and encouraging.

Sounds like verbatim AJATT.

What's funny is that the creator of AJATT cites Benny's blog in at least one of his articles where he learned a helpful tip for language learning. So it's like the concept of art imitating art, drawing influence from elsewhere, etc.

Regardless, though, you can find tips like that anywhere. Sites like Fluent in 3 Months and AJATT just help with reducing the time spent discovering tips individually on the web since they're conveniently located in two (most likely many more) places already.

So he failed hacking Japanese.

I don't really mind Benny,sometimes I will have a look at what is new on his blog - Yes, I am that nosey. I was in the bookshop on Monday after a few lectures and seen a sign about his new book (This was beside the poetry and classics section - I'm confused why it wasn't in the languages section). Although I support anybody to try and reach their goal, Japanese isn't possible for many people in 3 months at N2 level- I stopped reviewing kanji whilst I packed up for university and this was possibly for 2 weeks, then I had to start over again (Lost about 200 Kanji), my brain is like a goldfish.

If anybody buys the book can they give a review, I might want to take a look!

He wrote in his blog today that he failed at his goal. Listed a number of reasons such as sickness and his upcoming book keeping him busy. Doesn't look like he is going back to it either. His meaning of "fluent" is not my definition of fluent and I don't think he could have achieved a goal of fluency in 3 months with any reasonable definition for the word. Well at least he admitted he couldn't reach whatever he was aiming at.

I find him entertaining though and I will probably buy his book for a fun read.

Well at least he admitted it. It would have been worse if he made some excuse and brushed it off.

PotbellyPig Wrote:He wrote in his blog today that he failed at his goal. Listed a number of reasons such as sickness and his upcoming book keeping him busy. Doesn't look like he is going back to it either. His meaning of "fluent" is not my definition of fluent and I don't think he could have achieved a goal of fluency in 3 months with any reasonable definition for the word. Well at least he admitted he couldn't reach whatever he was aiming at.

I find him entertaining though and I will probably buy his book for a fun read.

Where did he write this? I'm not contradicting you, but the last post on his blog I can see is about diplomats learning languages.

EDIT: never mind, it was a problem on my end

Well, that's that, as far as this thread is concerned.

Most recent article on his site: Why Japanese is easier than you think

LOL. I don't even disagree with the content of the article, but it's a bit rich after he failed to meet even his pathetic standards for success in the language.

It was written by a guest author.