TheVinster Wrote:

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:

TheVinster Wrote:Why do you say it's because you're white? A lot of Japanese people have different ways they talk, and that includes their usage of Katakana. And the fact you didn't get "ドリンクは?" is kind of baffling.

That's funny. You don't live in Japan, do you?

Living in Japan doesn't make you some sort of expert.

No it doesn't. But it does mean that I interact with Japanese people around the clock, seven days a week.

Like I was in McDonald's last week, for breakfast. I'm a big fan of their hash browns, honestly. And as I'm waiting in line, the cashier is asking customers, one after another, "Will that be for here or to go?" in Japanese. The same question, over and over, and when I get to the counter, silence. Not even a word.

Eh, probably just a coincidence.

You know, I eat out a lot. Okay, every meal. And I normally get treated just like everybody else, so I was a little surprised when I ordered the 焼きサバ and the waiter replied, "Okay, fishu," and then asked for my "Dorinku." With everybody else, he just spoke like a normal person. But maybe he's got like English Tourette's or something.

So that happens once in a while. I do look different, and sometimes I get different treatment, and that's just part of the deal. But the same thing happens all over the world, so okay. It's understandable. But it's also real.

Ok but was that breaking out the chugaku English for the gaijin or was it just legitimate use of standard garaigo? Maybe your japanese level and or mannerisms are just not yet at that level that assures people that you will understand them. Or maybe it's the case that in certain places like fast food restaurants they are used to getting foreign customers that don't speak japanese, tourists etc. sucks I guess but shoganaine.

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:You know, I eat out a lot. Okay, every meal. And I normally get treated just like everybody else, so I was a little surprised when I ordered the 焼きサバ and the waiter replied, "Okay, fishu," and then asked for my "Dorinku." With everybody else, he just spoke like a normal person.

Haha, I would be so mad at this. If this happened to me and I was in even a slightly bad mood I would have yelled at the guy.

Tzadeck Wrote:

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:You know, I eat out a lot. Okay, every meal. And I normally get treated just like everybody else, so I was a little surprised when I ordered the 焼きサバ and the waiter replied, "Okay, fishu," and then asked for my "Dorinku." With everybody else, he just spoke like a normal person.

Haha, I would be so mad at this. If this happened to me and I was in even a slightly bad mood I would have yelled at the guy.

It's considered polite in Japan to go out of your way to make your guests feel comfortable. So even though this would bother me if it happened to me, and similar things have bothered me when they've happened, it could just be that he was really trying to make you feel comfortable (although, going about it in a completely wrong-headed way), rather than being malicious towards you.

Of course, I wasn't there that time, and of course, Japan has arseholes too, same as any other country...

Tzadeck Wrote:

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:You know, I eat out a lot. Okay, every meal. And I normally get treated just like everybody else, so I was a little surprised when I ordered the 焼きサバ and the waiter replied, "Okay, fishu," and then asked for my "Dorinku." With everybody else, he just spoke like a normal person.

Haha, I would be so mad at this. If this happened to me and I was in even a slightly bad mood I would have yelled at the guy.

At the gym I go to they encourage members to write down what exercises they did in detail each time on a form, after which they write a comment. The other day the comment was "カタカナはお上手ですね！！"... I guess they thought that was the extent of my writing ability...

dizmox Wrote:The other day the comment was "カタカナはお上手ですね！！"... I guess they thought that was the extent of my writing ability...

Ahahha... I think that would make me laugh if I read that.

ktcgx Wrote:Of course, I wasn't there that time, and of course, Japan has arseholes too, same as any other country...

To be honest I think I'd rather the "fake politeness" expected of people working in hospitality in Japan, than the personal skills which passes for hospitality these days in Australia. Half the time it seems they aren't even aware they are awake and the other quarter of the time it's like "yeah, what do you want?". When I did a stint working in a restaurant a few years ago it made me cringe everytime one of my co-workers spoke to the customers as thought their presence was irritating.

dizmox Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:You know, I eat out a lot. Okay, every meal. And I normally get treated just like everybody else, so I was a little surprised when I ordered the 焼きサバ and the waiter replied, "Okay, fishu," and then asked for my "Dorinku." With everybody else, he just spoke like a normal person.

Haha, I would be so mad at this. If this happened to me and I was in even a slightly bad mood I would have yelled at the guy.

At the gym I go to they encourage members to write down what exercises they did in detail each time on a form, after which they write a comment. The other day the comment was "カタカナはお上手ですね！！"... I guess they thought that was the extent of my writing ability...

Lol, that just made me laugh so much!!

dizmox Wrote:At the gym I go to they encourage members to write down what exercises they did in detail each time on a form, after which they write a comment. The other day the comment was "カタカナはお上手ですね!!"... I guess they thought that was the extent of my writing ability...

...Write in man'yogana next time?

nadiatims Wrote:Ok but was that breaking out the chugaku English for the gaijin or was it just legitimate use of standard garaigo? Maybe your japanese level and or mannerisms are just not yet at that level ...

There's no such level, apparently. I saw on NHK the other day a black kid who was born and raised in Japan, and he was talking about getting the same kind of treatment, obviously because of his appearance. (The topic was actually about learning English, which he didn't know, but that came up as why he needed to learn it.)

ktcgx Wrote:It's considered polite in Japan to go out of your way to make your guests feel comfortable. So even though this would bother me if it happened to me, and similar things have bothered me when they've happened, it could just be that he was really trying to make you feel comfortable (although, going about it in a completely wrong-headed way), rather than being malicious towards you.

Of course, I wasn't there that time, and of course, Japan has arseholes too, same as any other country...

This is definitely true, but sometimes well meaning ignorance is nearly as bad as maliciousness.

[RawToast]

Benny has posted a Skype conversation:

I haven't listened to it (at work) so no comment from me

.

It was really hard to watch him try to explain couch surfing.

はい　はい　はい　はい　いいです　いいです

はい　いいです　はい　はい　はい

Is mostly what I remember.

That said, this seems a pretty good effort to me for only 6 weeks, I think people are being somewhat harsh. He is at least holding a conversation, which I'm not sure many of us could do after only 6 weeks of study time.

^That's a positive result -- he's showing how possible it actually is to have some functional conversation after very little progress.

I'm more in mind with Steve Kaufmann, I'm comfortable spending time listening and reading until I feel like I can have more natural conversations that don't feel artificial or too much of a struggle. But I've also been very confident that I could do it, whereas generally, language learning is just something people don't know enough about to be convinced like that. It's great that Benny manages to spread motivation.

What's his JLPT-equivalent level at this point?

I know Benny gave up on the test because it involved so much written language, but I wonder where his listening skills would place him at.

I don't think there's any doubt you could have some kind of conversation in broken Japanese in 3 months.

I actually watched a few videos of Steve Kaufmann a while back after seeing him mentioned on here, and found myself agreeing which pretty much everything he said. I think he knows what hes doing.

I think Benny's "speak immediately" way of thinking is somewhat motivational for people who put off speaking for far too long (like I've definitely done with my Japanese, but a mistake I didn't make with my Chinese, and the difference in progress is huge) - but frankly I wouldn't want to study the way he does now because its just too cringeworthy and too uncomfortable.

He is showing he isn't super human and gets the same results that anyone else would if they put in the time, so its also a useful measuring stick for how much a person can improve in only a number of weeks.

Seems good to me for a month and a half.

Hmm

Not bad. But on the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to call it good. Maybe I'm just forgetting what it was like being at that level though. But overall I don't think this constitutes proof of accelerated progress which would vindicate his methods. Rather it demonstrates his ability to do some basic communication in spite of his still low level. In other words his level is still low indicating that his progress has been pretty average or lackluster.

god his accent is so crazy. I think that's the biggest detriment of his method maybe... that since he doesn't really spend enough time in these languages, he speaks japanese with his own eccentric accent, plus that of all the other languages he's dabbled in. His 準備 sounds like straightup mandarin... because it probably is. Other than that it's generally a spanish accent because his best 2nd language is spanish. And then of course you have his inescapable brogue... like a big fart on top of a stew already brimming with incompatible flavors.

Wow.

The hate has been strong in this thread and now it's descended to blatant racism!

How disgusting.

That was pretty terrible. Granted, I wouldn't normally expect anything else after six weeks, but I would expect more of someone who is more than halfway through a program that is supposed to end in fluent speaking.

A 'crazy accent' is one way to put it. I don't speak anything except English and Japanese to be able to place any Spanish or Mandarin elements to his speech, but I did notice that many of his vowels were simply wrong for the word he was supposed to be saying.

I'm surprised that he had so much trouble describing what he himself liked to do. If there's anywhere I'd expect a person to have a vocabulary concentration, it would be in describing their own interests.

Grammar was terrible as well, but he does seem to have normal word order and the main functions of the main particles down.

All in all, it's about the performance I'd expect from someone who had been studying the language for six weeks ... but most people don't actively study for 8 hours a day or with a personally developed learning system that they make money from. I'd expect much the same level out of anyone working with Genki and Anki for half that time each day.

[RawToast]

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:What's his JLPT-equivalent level at this point?

Obviously with a native speaker doing all the talking it the sentences were similar to those from the N5 listening section.

DjCamero Wrote:And then of course you have his inescapable brogue... like a big fart on top of a stew already brimming with incompatible flavors.

Somewhat strongly put, but the point is valid. His Irish accent, whilst not strong, is very apparent in this video. It'll be interesting to see if it is less noticeable at the end of his time with Japanese.

Quote:The hate has been strong in this thread and now it's descended to blatant racism!

I don't sense any on this page. As for the rest of the thread, at the time I intended to move that little rant in the middle pages to another thread for the participants to continue on -- I may still do so.

Unbelievable.

You are from the UK, and yet you think it would be quite acceptable to say to any Irish person to their face that their accent sounded the way DTCamero has just described Benny's.

If I said to my Irish friends what you have just quoted they would disown me and as an afterthought, beat the crap out of me.

Imagine you said to a Pakistani in the UK, your accent is like etc.

You are saying that this would not be racist?!

Also for all the Americans and Brits on this forum - the majority I would guess - how many of you have completely lost all trace of your native accents when you speak Japanese? It's a ludicrous criticism, quite out of proportion and incredibly offensive.

What is even more appalling is that this comment has been made on a language forum which should be alive to issues of race and tolerance, and not where racist comments can be glibly sneaked in to belittle somebody else. It should be obvious when somebody has overstepped the mark and DjCamero has done.

Yet you have just gone and endorsed what he said. Extraordinary.

woofle Wrote:how many of you have completely lost all trace of your native accents when you speak Japanese?

From the interest and opinions on the pitch accent, not many, I would think.

It's just jealousy, fear, and gratuitous hatred that makes people to post things like that – so calm down and enjoy the show, not