arupan Wrote:dizmox Wrote:I wouldn't confuse language majors with people who do nothing but study their language. Indeed, a lot don't seem to do much studying at all...
You definitely don't need to become an empty husk of a person to pass N1 after 2 years. A few hours a day of intelligent study/practice should suffice.
It's actually funny cause I find that most people around me can't really talk about anything else except the things they are interested in. I've never really met a true language geek though.
My post is in response to the above, in respect to the below:
dtcamero Wrote:I think a lot of people here put a lot of effort into their japanese study, so there is an often missed truth floating behind these language forum stories by people who show up and say they did N1 in whatever months and became native-like at whatever years.
my question to these people that have sacrificed everything to speak japanese so quickly is...:
"do you have anything interesting to say?"
no matter how hard a language is, it is just a medium for communication. if you have given up a real skill / career / passion in order to learn Japanese... these are the things that make you unique as a person, and it seems bass-ackwards in my opinion.
this is the reason language majors in college always puzzled me. I just wonder if Mr. Moleman here can hold a conversation about something non-language related... when his last date was... how funny are his jokes?
These people are like empty shells of people...with good japanese.
Most of my intellectual interests rely heavily on nuances of language which a lot of people have called me a bit of a language obsessed freak for caring about the details so much. Used to do a lot of creative writing, so it sorts of ends up that way. Though I must say most people my age have little to not interest in word-play, and for the lack of a better phrasal: "poetic language".
Is there a distinction between a language geek who perhaps spends a little too little of their time doing "practical", non-contemplative related language things, reading, etc. and someone who spends a lot of their time maybe not so invested in language but learning multiple languages ala internet polyglot style?
On a side note, puns sure seem to rub some people the wrong way. Well, That more inevitable disgust from people once they've realised an entire conversation was based around the function of puns. The ability to propagate dialouge out of essentially nothing is kind of an interesting experiment and insight into how others pay attention to or do not pay attention to how they use and are used by language in forming ideas and trains of thought.
Often people more educated people have said that I am intelligent based on mere conversational input, but in reality all I'm doing is playing around with words, something like I've spent too much time doing, and using similar patterns to mimic and compliment their own communication style.
You can almost get away with a lot of not really being "an empty shell" by giving people what they really want: someone to listen to their opinions and have them confirmed as valid. Hell, I've had a (turned out to be bloody interesting) discussion with a stranger which ended up lasting for near an hour, on the topic of the differences between clutches used in cars today and cars used twenty years ago. Something I have absolutely no personally invested interest/knowledge/experience in.
Does enjoying this make me a bit of a language geek or more simply being aware enough to tell people what they want to hear?
pre-edit:
that came out all pretty strange and probably someone what manipulative. What I was trying to say is that even if you were an "empty shell" of a human being, there is a lot to experience and share with others simply by being willing to listen and take an interest in their worldview and the various fascinations involved. Many may not be willing to open up or share themselves, but even if you have a lived a normal existence (though keep in mind that there are millions of "normal" people who have pretty much nothing to comment on about life aside their jobs and mindless shit on TV) unless you are fascinated in others, being fascinating yourself is not enough to make bonds with people.
May as well have spent months in a shed studying in you aren't tuned-in enough to explore the worldview and ideals of others. Somewhat reminds me of two people I know who have spent some time traveling and living abroad, and yet still talk about the same things they did years prior, have the same mindset as before they left, and failed to really expand their worlds.
Something which, to put it in a way: there are many people who have become more worldly and interesting simply by being well-read. Something which can be undergone even for those empty shells of people who do nothing but study and fail to catch up on the latest office gossip or whether or not they really did release those baboons into the Big Brother house in season 46. Which is maybe what I'm trying to suggest is that this caricature of the hardcore studier who has completely shut him or herself off from the world is entirely vapid. That if anything, 'hardcore' expanding your knowledge of another language is not only expanding your world but giving you a more intimate access to the inner thoughts of millions of other people.
You might not have spend those months/years "living it up", but hey, you can spend the next five years doing a lot more of that than those who are still unable to experience such a literate experience within the language and with the native speakers than those who have done the 9-5, lead rich and fulfilling social lives, and have probably spent a tenth of the time studying the language.
As one can see: this caricature, this scarer of crows, can be stuffed both ways.
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