How come stories that are reported for inappropriate content are not removed?

http://kanji.koohii.com/study/kanji/%E9%9A%BB
The top story for "Vessels" has been reported 77 times, but it's still there. Shouldn't it be deleted?

If it takes too much time to manually delete them, why not have them hidden once there are more than x reports?

This discussion has been done before. The policy has been inconsistent in the past but the current policy seems to be to leave all stories up, no matter how offensive they are or even if they have incorrect primitives or information.

There are stories on the site that are far more inappropriate than that one.

Besides that one also has 300+ stars, sounds like its a pretty good one to me!

I tried to be so elitist as to only use stories that are beaming emblems of the beauty of human creativity and verbal poetry. But the dirty stories sometimes just work better.

Putting on a mature filter seems to have been discussed before here:

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=2682&page=1

But it looks like it didn't really come to anything. I never really liked it either, and I think for newcomers it sort of reflects bad on the site when they see a large portion of the stories have grotesque or sexist contents. But then again I think if those are the top stories, then that's just how we are, as a userbase. It sort of becomes an issue of "do we really need the admins to protect us from ourselves?" It seems like that's basically all that's at stake. I don't think there are any actual kids here. Maybe like 13-ish, but they've probably seen worse...

But hey look on the bright side. At least we're not kanjidamage. I believe they have multiple radicals literally named after genitalia.

Let's not forget what inappropriate actually means.

ap·pro·pri·ate 1. suitable or fitting for a particular purpose, person, occasion, etc.: an appropriate example; an appropriate dress.

Inappropriate for whom? Many of those stories work for the site's audience and are appreciated by the community. So I'd say they are actually very appropriate. Stories containing sexual or violent elements are not automatically bad or unwanted, which 'inappropriate' seems to imply. They may not be appropriate to a specific person, but the same goes for stories about, say, religion. Personally I don't care in the slightest as long as it's memorable, and stories that disgust or shock people actually tend to be remembered better since they have (strong) emotions attached to them. I think Heisig even states this explicitly.

Of course a threshold setting (anyone can choose to hide stores with x+ reports and /or x- stars) wouldn't hurt in the slightest. Just a matter of whether the admin feels like implementing it.

tashippy Wrote:But the dirty stories sometimes just work better.

ahahah...

And this is why maybe they really ought stay. Also, generally speaking, people tend to remember the things they are offended by a little more so than other things. Which is the point of these stories: to remember them in order to eventually forgot them and only remember the related primitives/kanji.

tehfriendlyghost Wrote:http://kanji.koohii.com/study/kanji/%E9%9A%BB
The top story for "Vessels" has been reported 77 times, but it's still there. Shouldn't it be deleted?

Pretty hilarious story if you ask me, I'm one of the 311 people who starred it!
It's good for its purpose, and no turkey has objected about it yet!
I use and make dirty stories too, they're awesome!

Edit: LOL check this one, the second top story for "Plan": http://kanji.koohii.com/study/kanji/%E6%A1%88
It has 156 reports, but not only it helped me memorize the Kanji, but also a reading!

Seriously? What's up with all the puritans on this site? Anytime someone's story is even remotely sexual it automatically generates a zillion red flags. These are mnemonics for learning kanji, not interpretations of biblical script. Get your panties out of a bunch and take your morality elsewhere.

KIGAKIKU Wrote:Seriously? What's up with all the puritans on this site? Anytime someone's story is even remotely sexual it automatically generates a zillion red flags. These are mnemonics for learning kanji, not interpretations of biblical script. Get your panties out of a bunch and take your morality elsewhere.

Well...yes and no. I doubt there are many Puritans on this site. Some of us, however, are concerned with ensuring that this site remains open and friendly to people of all genders, races, religions, and sexual preferences. I would hope any story that left users feeling marginalized (racist jokes, overly violent stories, sexist content) would be removed. This is a forum for learning, not a boy's locker room.

It would be good to have a published set of ground rules for story content. I currently don't see any. In the end, though, that's Fabrice's call. Honestly, I've been focused on monitoring the forums, not the stories. I'll talk with the other mods and see what we come up with.

The flagged story is silly (and the mental image a wee disturbing), but not worthy of censoring on those grounds, IMO. I do like the idea of demoting and auto-hiding stories that fall below a certain pro/con percentage, though.

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:Well...yes and no. I doubt there are many Puritans on this site. Some of us, however, are concerned with ensuring that this site remains open and friendly to people of all genders, races, religions, and sexual preferences. I would hope any story that left users feeling marginalized (racist jokes, overly violent stories, sexist content) would be removed. This is a forum for learning, not a boy's locker room.

Totally agree with you there.

However, I don't think that auto hiding stories is a good idea. It's too easy for stories to be wrongly hidden, or wrongly remain visible. I feel like this is something that mods should look at on a case by case basis.

ktcgx Wrote:

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:Well...yes and no. I doubt there are many Puritans on this site. Some of us, however, are concerned with ensuring that this site remains open and friendly to people of all genders, races, religions, and sexual preferences. I would hope any story that left users feeling marginalized (racist jokes, overly violent stories, sexist content) would be removed. This is a forum for learning, not a boy's locker room.

Totally agree with you there.

However, I don't think that auto hiding stories is a good idea. It's too easy for stories to be wrongly hidden, or wrongly remain visible. I feel like this is something that mods should look at on a case by case basis.

Well if they are gonna do it on a case by case basis, a good place to start would be right here:

http://kanji.koohii.com/study/kanji/magnet

Haych Wrote:

ktcgx Wrote:

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:Well...yes and no. I doubt there are many Puritans on this site. Some of us, however, are concerned with ensuring that this site remains open and friendly to people of all genders, races, religions, and sexual preferences. I would hope any story that left users feeling marginalized (racist jokes, overly violent stories, sexist content) would be removed. This is a forum for learning, not a boy's locker room.

Totally agree with you there.

However, I don't think that auto hiding stories is a good idea. It's too easy for stories to be wrongly hidden, or wrongly remain visible. I feel like this is something that mods should look at on a case by case basis.

Well if they are gonna do it on a case by case basis, a good place to start would be right here:

http://kanji.koohii.com/study/kanji/magnet

Agreed. That ought to be removed.

Re: interface, I think auto-hide + the ability to override the autohide manually would be a perfect balance.

Last time we had a discussion about that magnet story, it brought a bunch of single-digit-post-count people out to cry about fascism, book-burning, etc. (And now we have someone who created an account just to bump a 4 month old thread.)

I agree with gaiaslaugh; I would like to see two types of stories removed -- ones that have wrong information (e.g. wrong primitives, etc.) and stories that are offensive towards particular groups. But it's not my site and I don't really use it anyway, so I don't push the issue. I don't think the admins are really interested in policing the stories.

yudantaiteki Wrote:(And now we have someone who created an account just to bump a 4 month old thread.)

He created an account in 2006 just to bump a thread that would be created 7 years later?

yudantaiteki Wrote:Last time we had a discussion about that magnet story, it brought a bunch of single-digit-post-count people out to cry about fascism, book-burning, etc. (And now we have someone who created an account just to bump a 4 month old thread.)

Lol, I was unaware. That seems definitely like something people would do though. Getting all up in arms about free speech...

In that case, it doesn't seem like that's the issue though. I mean, it was obviously duplicitous. I'm guessing someone made a normal story and then edited it to something racist after they had got a lot of votes. At least I'm hoping that's how it went down...

But I mean, even if people did legitimately like that story, that doesn't mean we have to tolerate it. The internet doesn't have to be some wild west free for all where any person with some horrible opinion can be validated by others with equally horrible opinions. We ought to stick with the same values we have in real life and maintain some guise of respectability, at least.

There really should be a way of pruning out the crap.

If a story shocks, offends, sickens, arouses, or otherwise bothers me in any way, that's the story I'll pick, without hesitation, every time. Picture a boy standing on a cliff looking at the writhing shape of his fallen, dying beloved below? ***** hell, that's awful, I'll use it!

Bland stories are easily forgotten, but if something offends you it'll stick around. Use this to your advantage.

I would say that this is one of those cases where the end justifies the means.

afterglowefx Wrote:If a story shocks, offends, sickens, arouses, or otherwise bothers me in any way, that's the story I'll pick, without hesitation, every time. Picture a boy standing on a cliff looking at the writhing shape of his fallen, dying beloved below? ***** hell, that's awful, I'll use it!

Bland stories are easily forgotten, but if something offends you it'll stick around. Use this to your advantage.

I think, though, it's fine to have such stories for yourself, but don't make them public.

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:

Haych Wrote:

ktcgx Wrote:Totally agree with you there.

However, I don't think that auto hiding stories is a good idea. It's too easy for stories to be wrongly hidden, or wrongly remain visible. I feel like this is something that mods should look at on a case by case basis.

Well if they are gonna do it on a case by case basis, a good place to start would be right here:

http://kanji.koohii.com/study/kanji/magnet

Agreed. That ought to be removed.

Re: interface, I think auto-hide + the ability to override the autohide manually would be a perfect balance.

I think them you'd have to have 2 buttons, report this story, and petition to unhide story.

I, personally, don't think 'inappropriate' stories should be removed (with the exception of those with incorrect primitives or reprehensible content [i.e. that magnet story]). I also agree however, that having inappropriate stories on full display makes the community look bad.

Why not have a story become hidden after a certain number of flags and then give users the option to toggle 'mature content' on/off as a preference? That way if we actively want to see those stories (as I, admittedly, did when I was going through RTK) we can set them to appear.

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:I doubt there are many Puritans on this site. Some of us, however, are concerned with ensuring that this site remains open and friendly to people of all genders, races, religions, and sexual preferences. I would hope any story that left users feeling marginalized (racist jokes, overly violent stories, sexist content) would be removed. This is a forum for learning, not a boy's locker room.

Well said. It's true that shocking stories are often more easily remembered (and for that reason I'm pretty accepting of most stories people post) but there are limits to what should be included - by which I mean, beyond these limits (rape, pedophilia, racism, sexism etc - and there are mnemonic stories like this on the site) you end up with a site that makes its users feel... well, frankly, unwelcome and horrible.

It'd be good for the admins to spell out the rules for content (e.g. explicit material not removed unless racist / sexist / overly violent) and then police accordingly, although this is dependent on them having enough time to do so, of course.

There should be no excuse for posting stories about rape etc. Those who really, really want to post stories like this should remember, before they cry foul about 'censorship', that it's still possible for them to enter the story and NOT make it public!

Maybe just default to a forum "spoiler"-behavior sort of thing for any stories which surpass a certain report threshold (i.e. default to having them hidden, but allow a user to reveal - a little like reddit comments?). Allow this setting to be enabled/disabled via user settings. This seems to be somewhat of a reasonable compromise.

yudantaiteki Wrote:stories that are offensive towards particular groups.

Which groups in particular? IE. which groups are okay to offend, and which groups are not okay to offend?

For example: women and fat people. Would you argue that offending women is not okay but offending fat people is acceptable and how would you justify your answer? I use these two examples because the former cannot usually be changed while the latter can (by exercising).

The above is a potentially endless debate. Which is why I prefer to simplify it: I am a supporter of equality. Either everyone/all groups of people is a target of offense, or we offend no-one. We can't pick and choose the same way Christians pick and choose which parts they like or dislike from the Bible.

That would be the judgment of the administrator; it's not as impossible an issue as you seem to think.