Hi,
I'm opening this thread so I can link to it from the study pages. But of course, any further discussions regarding the matter are very welcome ;-).
In summary, I've changed the keywords of these two kanji:
1) #2043 「此」:"this here" -> "this" (actually, "esto" in Spanish).
2) #2890 「斯」:"this" -> "like this" (actually, "como esto" in Spanish). You could also use "thus" or "this way" (or "de este modo" in Spanish).
I know this changes are subtle (I wouldn't have done them if I weren't translating into Spanish), as is the whole issue (since the words you can write with those kanji are almost always written in kana anyways). Part of the motivation for doing that, in fact, is that I chose 此's keyword in a somewhat carefree way (it seemed the right thing at the time) and then, much later, stumbled upon 斯 and realized there was a problem.
Nonetheless, I still thought "this" was more appropriate for the former than for the latter, so I chose to keep it that way and crafted the expression you can see above for 斯.
I'll elaborate on this and explain what I think I learnt: yes, we have 「この」 = 「此の」 = 「斯の」 but, as I see it, 「此」 is used mainly for the "pure" demonstratives ("this", "this one", "here") while 「斯」 implies "way", "manner" ("this way"). Clearly this is not a perfect rule, it seems they both got somewhat mingled through the ages (read the last paragraph below), but look at the following charts:
That said, the distinction is far from clear, as is usually the case with kanji: 「この」 = 「此の」 = 「斯の」, 「こうした」 = 「斯うした」 = 「此うした」, 「斯界」 = "this field or subject", ...
Reference:
Tangorin (斯)
I'll be glad if you let me know what you think about.
I'm opening this thread so I can link to it from the study pages. But of course, any further discussions regarding the matter are very welcome ;-).
In summary, I've changed the keywords of these two kanji:
1) #2043 「此」:
2) #2890 「斯」:
I know this changes are subtle (I wouldn't have done them if I weren't translating into Spanish), as is the whole issue (since the words you can write with those kanji are almost always written in kana anyways). Part of the motivation for doing that, in fact, is that I chose 此's keyword in a somewhat carefree way (it seemed the right thing at the time) and then, much later, stumbled upon 斯 and realized there was a problem.
Nonetheless, I still thought "this" was more appropriate for the former than for the latter, so I chose to keep it that way and crafted the expression you can see above for 斯.
I'll elaborate on this and explain what I think I learnt: yes, we have 「この」 = 「此の」 = 「斯の」 but, as I see it, 「此」 is used mainly for the "pure" demonstratives ("this", "this one", "here") while 「斯」 implies "way", "manner" ("this way"). Clearly this is not a perfect rule, it seems they both got somewhat mingled through the ages (read the last paragraph below), but look at the following charts:
Code:
This (thing), that (thing); this (one), that (one); here, there
此の / 其の / 彼の
此れ / 其れ / 彼 「あれ」
此処 / 其処 / 彼処 (you can find versions with 「処」 replaced by 「所」)
This way, that way
斯う / 然う
Expressions
其処彼処 ("here and there", "everywhere")
然う斯う ("this and that", "this way and that way", "one thing or another")Reference:
Tangorin (斯)
I'll be glad if you let me know what you think about.
