I have a background in mnemonics. I have entered several memory competitions in Europe. Where, for example, I have to memorise hundreds of binary digits and other such feats in a limited amount of time.

I'm 300 characters into RTK1 however I don't think it is efficient in terms of my memory.
I decided i wanted to use the 'method of loci' with RTK, in order to better remember the kanji.

But then I saw that someone (Alyks) already came up with this, which he calls the "Movie Method". With this I could learn both the pronunciation and recognition of the kanji. The method of loci is what I use to remember the order of 3 decks of playing cards in a short amount of time.

I have a few questions about this method:

1. How am I expected to learn the 200 or so "basic" kanji?
The movie method presupposes knowledge of 200 "basic" kanji. For me, no kanji is basic Is there a technique to learn these basic kanji (please don't say rote)

I'm thinking of learning the "basic" kanji by going directly to those kanji in RTK1 and just make up a story for them. Is this a good idea?

2. Do the kanji components have to be learnt with their correct meaning?
For example, one of basic kanji components is 大 - can I assign the association of "webcam" to this, even though it has nothing to do with big, it just looks like a webcam to me?

OR, do I have to learn that this means "large" and thus assign something that reminds me it means large?

3. Is there an Anki deck already made for reviewing (using this method's order, etc)?

http://drmoviemethod.blogspot.com.au/200...ethod.html
spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pyxWLiI5lkOvvkV15DIyZHw&hl=en


http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=3067
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=8130
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=3355
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=5352
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=5036

I will restate my questions because they remain unanswered:

1. How am I expected to learn the 200 or so "basic" kanji?
The movie method presupposes knowledge of 200 "basic" kanji.

I'm thinking of learning the "basic" kanji by going directly to those kanji in RTK1 and just make up a story for them. Is this a good idea?

2. Do the kanji components have to be learnt with their correct meaning?

For example, one of basic kanji components is 大 - can I assign the association of "webcam" to this, even though it has nothing to do with big, it just looks like a webcam to me?

OR, do I have to learn that this means "large" and thus assign something that reminds me it means large?

All of your answers are essentially covered in those links, and the rest is something you should be able to answer yourself (in respect to memory association, given the history with mnemonics).


Have you read through them?

You have a doctorate in mnemonics?!

I don't think it matters if you assign that as webcam. It depends on your goals which seem to be memorizing lots of stuff. If you want to be able to read Japanese you'll eventually need to learn that it means big.

It should be nice to have a mnemonics expert around though. Please keep us updated on your progress especially with vocab!

Hey, Doctorate. Do you have any advice for learning difficult compound words (mostly nouns and adverbs, made up of two or more Kanji), for someone who already knows the Heisig keywords for the Kanji?

For instance, 従来 means "traditionally", is made up of "to accompany vikings" and "come home", and is read juu-rai.

What would you recommend as a good way to remember that information (especially the first part, of associating the meaning of the word with the keywords of the two Kanji, but the reading would be nice too)?

I tend to expand Heisig's keywords into a two-three word phrase, to make them more concrete. If you think it's easier to just associate with "accompany" and "come", rather than the longer versions, that's fine too.

Quote:2. Do the kanji components have to be learnt with their correct meaning?
For example, one of basic kanji components is 大 - can I assign the association of "webcam" to this, even though it has nothing to do with big, it just looks like a webcam to me?

I don't know the movie method, sorry. But I don't think the specifics of the method matter, to answer this. The Kanji themselves don't have any kind of property that would make it easier to use dog than webcam, for the above component, except on very, very rare occasion. But usually, they are so far removed from the pictographs they evolved from, that paying attention to the fact that that's a dog would be useless.

With that in mind, yes, you can change the meaning of components, or even use more than one meaning. On this site we sometimes use a meaning for a Kanji, then another meaning for the same component when it is part of other Kanji on the left side, and then a third meaning when it's a component on the bottom or the right side. And we routinely change the names Heisig gave them, to bring them up to date.

In this case, 大 is a Kanji and means big or large (in Chinese; and in Japanese big is written 大きい), and that's information you need eventually, but you can use a second name for it when it's a component in other Kanji. So, for the purposes of the method you're using, you can use webcam. I could be wrong, but I think even Heisig uses "Saint-Bernard Dog" as an alternative name for it (which is slightly related, in this case, but he often uses unrelated names too).

Doctorate Wrote:When learning the primitives for the Movie Method, do the associations have to show the true meaning?

Eg, Could I make 大 mean "webcam" even though it has nothing to do with "large"?
Or is it necessary to convey the meaning with the association? (ie. my large dog)

I have read the Movie Method blog, but I can't seem to find the explicit answer to this question.

From "How to use this method" on the blog:

Memorize the components
After downloading the files, you have to at least be familiar with all of the components listed in the "kanji basics" and "kanji components" files before using my system. I've given them all suggested meanings already, but I'd recommend you change them to suit you best. (If you do change them, be sure to assign them meanings that are tangible and easy to imagine. Make sure objects not too big or too small.)

@uisukii I read every word and all of the posts. Perhaps I missed something. Thanks for your time, anyway.

@tashippy Thanks for the warm welcome. I don't have a doctorate in mnemonics, but I am working towards one in Law
Sure, I'll post my progress with vocabulary on this site.

@Stansfield123 Thanks for explicitly answering my question!

I would recommend the "method of loci". It may feel strange if you have not used this before, but I assure you with practice it will be very powerful.

As I said before, in memory competitions we have to memorise hundreds of 1's and 0's in order; and this is precisely how we do it (plus other techniques used for numbers).

Please remember that I don't know much about Japanese at this stage, so I'm going to try my best to give you an idea of how I would memorise that combination.

"For instance, 従来 means "traditionally", is made up of "to accompany vikings" and "come home", and is read juu-rai."
"especially the first part, of associating the meaning of the word with the keywords of the two Kanji, but the reading would be nice too)?"

Here are my steps:

1. 'chunk' the two kanji together: an image of big hairy Vikings (Thor, perhaps) landing on the shore of Sweden with family members (happily) crying.

2. Keyword method to encode the pronunciation:
"Juu-rai" sounds like "July" to me. I would encode this as "4th of July" fireworks (celebrations in USA). July 4th is 'traditionally' celebrated in America.

If you wish, you could compress this information together (but you don't have to).
Eg, Swedish Vikings have returned home after defeating America, with fireworks going off in the background to celebrate.

3. Method of loci:
This part is key. Place this image in a place you know exceptionally well. Perhaps in the house where you grew up in. Place it right in front of the TV in your living room. See one of the july 4th fireworks misfire and hit your dad's TV.

Does this help you at all? If its too much information you don't need to combine all of them. You could put them in two separate places in your house (the reading, and the kanji imagery).

I would recommend practicing method of loci. The trick is to place the image (the Vikings, fireworks, etc) at a specific point in your house.

So don't say "the living room". See your living room and place it somewhere specific, like in front of the TV, or on the sofa, or to the left of the telephone. It helps to have the image interact with the nearest item that is around.

Once you get really good, or if you have a knack for visual-spatial, you'll be able to fit 50+ items in a single room. Take a walk around your house in your mind first. Literally start at the front door and walk around in a logical order, looking at what is around.

I'm not sure if I answered the question. But these things are quite personal. And I know my brain is not good with certain techniques.

I don't even know if the steps I just stated are good for Japanese or not.
I'll be trying them myself throughout these months that I have free to learn Japanese!

Doctorate Wrote:Here are my steps:

1. 'chunk' the two kanji together: an image of big hairy Vikings (Thor, perhaps) landing on the shore of Sweden with family members (happily) crying.

2. Keyword method to encode the pronunciation:
"Juu-rai" sounds like "July" to me. I would encode this as "4th of July" fireworks (celebrations in USA). July 4th is 'traditionally' celebrated in America.

If you wish, you could compress this information together (but you don't have to).
Eg, Swedish Vikings have returned home after defeating America, with fireworks going off in the background to celebrate.

3. Method of loci:
This part is key. Place this image in a place you know exceptionally well. Perhaps in the house where you grew up in. Place it right in front of the TV in your living room. See one of the july 4th fireworks misfire and hit your dad's TV.

Does this help you at all? If its too much information you don't need to combine all of them. You could put them in two separate places in your house (the reading, and the kanji imagery).

I would recommend practicing method of loci. The trick is to place the image (the Vikings, fireworks, etc) at a specific point in your house.

So don't say "the living room". See your living room and place it somewhere specific, like in front of the TV, or on the sofa, or to the left of the telephone. It helps to have the image interact with the nearest item that is around.

Once you get really good, or if you have a knack for visual-spatial, you'll be able to fit 50+ items in a single room. Take a walk around your house in your mind first. Literally start at the front door and walk around in a logical order, looking at what is around.

I'm not sure if I answered the question. But these things are quite personal. And I know my brain is not good with certain techniques.

I don't even know if the steps I just stated are good for Japanese or not.
I'll be trying them myself throughout these months that I have free to learn Japanese!

Thanks, that is very helpful. I will definitely use the first parts. Not sure about the method of loci though.

I actually learned about the method of loci from a British TV show called James May's Man Lab, a little while ago. And it looks very efficient, but he used it to memorize a numbered list, not an unordered set. From what you're saying, that's what you used it for too. I'm not convinced that it will help me much, since there's no benefit to ordering these words. Seems like just associating the meaning with the Kanji, and with the reading, the way you exemplified, should do the trick.

Doctorate Wrote:Where, for example, I have to memorise hundreds of binary digits and other such feats in a limited amount of time.

1. How am I expected to learn the 200 or so "basic" kanji?

You can turn them into binary digits and memorise them.