I thought I'd share this method of learning kanji readings with you. I use it, and it works very well for me; much better than RTK2 or kanjitown. Here is a simple outline what to do after completing RTK1. I can go into detail for a step if you have questions.

(1)Learn how to read all the vocabulary that you already know how to pronounce.
(2)Create and review a set of electronic flashcards for your vocabulary.
Question: Kanjified Japanese
Answer: kana, English
(3)Create and review a set of electronic flashcards for individual kanji characters.
Question: a single kanji character
Answer: all the pronunciations you know for the character, a sample kanji word from your vocabulary for each pronunciation, the keyword

Because I only learn readings for words that I already know, they stick in my head very well. Another thing I like about this method is that I'm not learning vocabulary from lists. I just get it from my text, conversation, TV, etc.

that method is undoubtably working, because I use that too. That is, I mix both kanjichains and your way of doing it. I simply try to remember the pronounciation of the kanjis I run across in my RTK1 reviews. No doubt Ill use this method for the kunyomi Im not sure I can be bothered to chain another round >.<

But.

Chaining has one advantage, it is a systematical approach like RTK1 that builds on the work you have already done with RTK1. 2042 stories just waiting for you to pick them up and chain them. That alone is a bonus, the other method is the traditional learn-as-you-go. But pending my examination I used a similiar method to the one you describe to gain lots of vocab memorized from our texts, making sure to review the kanjis as well so I could decipher each individually instead of reading them en bloc. But its a messy I think, so Ill stick with chaining for now.

Btw, I left the kanjitown system. It has too high an overhead, instead I do as Fabulous Fabrice, using individual chains. Much easier to juggle with IMO.

Immacolata Wrote:Btw, I left the kanjitown system. It has too high an overhead, instead I do as Fabulous Fabrice, using individual chains. Much easier to juggle with IMO.

yea, that is definatey the way to go.

leosmith Wrote:I only learn readings for words that I already know, they stick in my head very well. Another thing I like about this method is that I'm not learning vocabulary from lists. I just get it from my text, conversation, TV, etc.

This makes sense. I had tried to learn the readings in isolation, without even a keyword, and it was nearly useless.

1) Need common word (preferably one you know) that uses the kanji reading
2) Need the word in sentence (preferably a simple one).

If our WONDERFUL administrator reads this post, I have a suggestion.

A database similar to the one we use for learning Kanji. The users will provide sample words that use the reading of the kanji, and a SIMPLE sentence.

Perhaps put the Kanji in RTK vol 2 order (although I dislike those first 50 or so kanji that kana were derived from).

noushina Wrote:A database similar to the one we use for learning Kanji. The users will provide sample words that use the reading of the kanji, and a SIMPLE sentence.

Good suggestion. Are you thinking all the joyo yomi, or just the onyomi?

leosmith Wrote:

noushina Wrote:A database similar to the one we use for learning Kanji. The users will provide sample words that use the reading of the kanji, and a SIMPLE sentence.

Good suggestion. Are you thinking all the joyo yomi, or just the onyomi?

Ah, good question. I was thinking ANY word because often the onyomi is rare or useless and the kunyomi is used ALL THE TIME. But if they are in RTK v2 order, then that is implying only the onyomi.

I guess I don't know what order. But I would love to share simple sentences using words in context. Those model sentences of Jim Breen's vary in quality and are often MUCH too complicated for me.

More thoughts. This is basically a RTK site, so RTKv2 order is reasonable. So we could just include kun model words and sentences anyhow. I am not convinced that there is that much value in seeing those 500 kanji that look alike and sound alike, when very often many of the kanji in the group are relatively rare. It helps one make association threads -- so it is useful in that sense. BUt so it grouping the kanji by onyomi readings in general -- i.e. here are all the KA, the KO, the HA etc. Such as Kanjican does by using common mnemonic images for common onyomi readings

Maybe it would be just as good, and simpler for our programmer/adminstrator (assuming he would even do this) to just keep the kanji in RTK v1 order.

If someone does go this route, I think RTK1 order would be optimal -- then it would be of some use even to those who have not finished RTK1 yet.
Otherwise, Kanji in Context is a good textbook that essentially provides what you are talking about here, in its' own order (which is imo quite good).
I am not sure how useful pt.(3) in the original post is going to be though, it's kinda akin to asking about all English words that have some combination of letters in them, some people do such things easily and some do not, but it's hardly a useful skill....

laxxy Wrote:I am not sure how useful pt.(3) in the original post is going to be though, it's kinda akin to asking about all English words that have some combination of letters in them, some people do such things easily and some do not, but it's hardly a useful skill....

Yeah, I know learning individual readings isn't as important as learning compounds. But they definitely bail me out when I just can't remember the compound. Also, when I start to read fast, even though the compounds maybe registering on a subconsious level, I feel like I'm reading the individual characters. Anyone else have this happen?

Another thing, I thought it would be cool to learn em' because that's how the Japanese talk about characters. "it's the ji in jitensha", or "you know, the tan in tanjoubi", etc.

The original post was mostly to say that when you finish RTK1, assuming you know a lot of vocab, just go and learn to read that vocab. Not need to do RTK2, or kanjichains, or kanjitown, or kanji in context. Just learn your vocab, which RTK1 makes easy, and when you encounter new vocab, learn to read it too. I just wanted to present an alternative to the other methods, although I know not everyone will like this way.

But I'm intrigued by noushina's idea; it seems worth exploring.

leosmith Wrote:Yeah, I know learning individual readings isn't as important as learning compounds. But they definitely bail me out when I just can't remember the compound. Also, when I start to read fast, even though the compounds maybe registering on a subconsious level, I feel like I'm reading the individual characters. Anyone else have this happen?

Another thing, I thought it would be cool to learn em' because that's how the Japanese talk about characters. "it's the ji in jitensha", or "you know, the tan in tanjoubi", etc.

I always make a mental note of a character's readings when I study it in the dictionary but I never memorize kanji readings but rather the readings of words that use the kanji. So by studying words I get the readings as well. (Kinda like Heisig's "two birds with one stone" premise for reviewing from keyword to writing rather than the other way around.)

I also end up knowing that a kanji " is the ji in jitensha and jidousha", etc. BTW when Japanese do this they always pick a very common word using that particular reading as the example. So it is best to learn the most common examples of a given pronunciation.

Even though my study and review focuses on words I still find myself able to pronounce a kanji in an unknown compound even when I can't recall the original compound I used to memorise it with. But it's all about how our own brain remembers best, eh?

leosmith Wrote:

laxxy Wrote:I am not sure how useful pt.(3) in the original post is going to be though, it's kinda akin to asking about all English words that have some combination of letters in them, some people do such things easily and some do not, but it's hardly a useful skill....

Yeah, I know learning individual readings isn't as important as learning compounds. But they definitely bail me out when I just can't remember the compound. Also, when I start to read fast, even though the compounds maybe registering on a subconsious level, I feel like I'm reading the individual characters. Anyone else have this happen?

Another thing, I thought it would be cool to learn em' because that's how the Japanese talk about characters. "it's the ji in jitensha", or "you know, the tan in tanjoubi", etc.

The original post was mostly to say that when you finish RTK1, assuming you know a lot of vocab, just go and learn to read that vocab. Not need to do RTK2, or kanjichains, or kanjitown, or kanji in context. Just learn your vocab, which RTK1 makes easy, and when you encounter new vocab, learn to read it too. I just wanted to present an alternative to the other methods, although I know not everyone will like this way.

I agree, and it's also how I remember the words. and it would likely be helpful to have those words on the flashcards. I just wanted to say that one can know the words well, and still have trouble recollecting all the words that have a particular kanji, so *testing* those from a single kanji (as opposed to from, say, translation) might be a bit too much.

laxxy Wrote:If someone does go this route, I think RTK1 order would be optimal -- then it would be of some use even to those who have not finished RTK1 yet.
Otherwise, Kanji in Context is a good textbook that essentially provides what you are talking about here, in its' own order (which is imo quite good).

I agree that "Kanji in Context" is a good source of what noushina is looking for. It even differentiates between words that are easier or more difficult for that level (as well as what compounds are more rarely used).

Another source is the "Basic Kanji Book, vol I & II" and "Intermediate Kanji Book, vol I & II" series. The Intermediate books offer two grammatically easy sentences per kanji in their kanji index at the end. (They present about 670 kanji in the Intermediate series, but the examples make good usage of the 500 kanji presented in their "Basic Kanji Book, vols I & II" (and there are more sentences to be gleaned in the Basic books.) The only draw back to this series is that it only presents about 1170 kanji, but it is all solid stuff. "Kanji in Context" presents all the joyou kanji plus two additional kanji.

I also agree that whatever sources people might use to add to such a database, that the RTK1 order would be most useful to people on this site.