qwertyytrewq Wrote:I believe its similar in Japan, many old people aren't really retiring. But the question about the benfits of immigration didn't really specify a timeline for when to allow immigration. Japan will eventually need more labor for positions, some of it unskilled, some of it skilled. If nothing else, they'll need a larger number of workers to assist in the health care sector to aid in helping retirees. Right now they are cruising along just fine, but the whole thing is a ticking timebomb.vix86 Wrote:Immigration brings labor. This is especially important if you are faced with a problem where you need more people to fill positions being vacated by retiring poeple.I'm skeptical of that (that old people are retiring). I don't know about Japan but in many other countries, youth unemployment is very high because the baby boomers refuse to retire (Spain is an extreme example with 50% youth unemployment). The older generation are holding on to jobs until they die and in the meantime, the youth has to make do with the fall in full time spots are the rise in casual/part time ones.
If in reality in Japan, the supply of jobs is greater than the demand for it, then bring in immigration I guess.
qwertyytrewq Wrote:True, if the people that are immigrating are coming in and moving straight into a position of poverty and resulting in the system having to hold them up, then they are definitely straining the system more than helping it. But in some countries, they won't even let you into the country (legally) without having proof that your job will provide enough income so that you can support yourself without minimal state assistance. In those cases, you are still receiving an income, although possibly meager, and buying goods (food, consumer items, etc.), and that generates tax money.vix86 Wrote:Immigration brings money. Every new person entering the country and getting a job will be spending money in that country, that's increased capital flow. It also brings a new source for taxes.I'm skeptical of this point too. I guess this mainly depends on whether this immigration will involve skilled labor or unskilled labor. If the former, then the benefit/productive capacity of this "economic unit" will outweigh the costs. If it's the latter, then this might be a net loss situation because the demand for welfare/resources (such as water) will outweigh the tax money procured from this economic unit (because he/she has an average to low income).
qwertyytrewq Wrote:Thats why I think culture is a gray area. The gains are always going to have questionable value depending who you ask. Its also possible that reverse culture transfer happens too, that family from a poor 3rd world Islamic country might come to Japan and realize how ridiculous their prior culture was and change (I've seen it happen to so many Japanese that go abroad.)vix86 Wrote:Immigration brings new culture. Again, possibly a bad thing depending on your thinking. This fits closely with "new ideas." But new culture doesn't necessarily translate into increases in the economy.I guess that depends on what kind of culture this new culture is. If for example, 100,000 Germans migrate into Japan, that might work because for example, Germans are just as hard working as Japan, Japanese people like German culture, and Japan and Germany has a historical link (Imperial Japan and the German Nazis were buddies at one point, I believe Adolf Hitler even make positive comments about Japan and called them honorary "Aryans"). In this case, I don't see why it can't work, as long as Japanese and Germans wish for it to happen.
On the other hand, if for example, 100,000 people migrate into Japan from a hardline conservative majority Islam 3rd world nation, then I am finding it hard to imagine how it would be a good thing. For example, in some of those countries, "honor killings" are an acceptable form of punishment on a father's daughter. Also, some Muslims believe that if you're not Muslim then you must become one or, if by any chance a Japanese person converts to Islam than converts back out again, then some Muslims that former-Muslim Japanese should die. Last time I checked, honor killings and apostasy isn't part of Japanese culture so in this case, these two countries really need to make a compromise before the immigration occurs (if ever).
qwertyytrewq Wrote:I suppose that depends on the country of origin in question. If they are simply coming from a country with a low cost of living, then it might be possible to immigrate people without ghettos. As an example, many parts of India are pretty poor and the cost of living is very low, but there are many IT workers in the country. When they move from there to Japan, its not hard to imagine that they move into a job that provides decent income and allows them to live in okay housing.vix86 Wrote:Living in the 'ghetto' is generally associated with being poor, and that would have to be some crazy culture shock to bring you to steal, rape, and murder. As for lack of support, support in what?Is it possible to migrate citizens from poor countries into a rich one (Japan) but without the associated crime and ghettos?
Being poor or living in areas with great poverty, tend to have large amounts of crime and illegal behavior, and as result I'm still wondering if maybe the studies over looked this somehow.