I need some help with ironing out the errors in some sentences. Preferably someone who is a native speaker or fluent.

I'm taking a difficult test in two weeks, and part of the exam tests our writing ability. Fortunately, our sensei has given us a very generous study guide, which includes the questions we will be asked in the writing section.

Each question demands an answer about 5-6 sentences long, and we are supposed to answer exactly 5 out of 7 questions. Points for kanji take up the lion's share of the score, but word choice and grammar still count.

I've already drafted the sentences for the questions I plan to answer. My hope is that one of you will be kind enough to look over the sentences and correct any major errors in word choice or grammar.

The sentences don't have to be absolutely perfect, but they should at least make some sense.

I've already done most of the heavy lifting here: I'm providing the questions, my answers, and a rough English translation of the answers. I've done my best to iron out all the errors that I could find.

All I ask is that one of you corrects or at least points out any glaring weaknesses in my writing, particularly word choice and grammar.

I already had two fixed by someone else. I'll post the last one when I draft it.

Many thanks in advance!

以上よろしくお願いいたします。




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"You're a teacher that has a class full of unruly children. What do you say to get them to settle down?"

子供、　落ちに着いて下さい！座って、静かにして下さい！懲戒処分が取られるよ！あなたは厳し く処罰さ！多 動性障害があるかな。

Children, settle down! Sit down and be quiet! Disciplinary action will be taken! You will all be severely punished! I wonder if they have a hyperactivity disorder…　
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"You're at a job interview. Tell your potential employer about your work-related skills."

私はオフィスの設定に有用であろう多くのスキルを持っています。まず、私は非常に社会的に有能 だと私は、オ フィス環境における対人関係でうまくやります。私は非常にすぐに働くと私はいつも仕事が前倒し で片付けてい ます。さらに、 私はノルウェー語とフィンランド語流暢に話せます。私はまた、コンピュータと熟練したと私は広 大なプログラ ミングの知識を持っています。

I have many skills that would be useful in an office setting. I am very socially competent and I have good interpersonal office skills. I work rather quickly and I always get my work in ahead of time. In addition, I can speak fluent Finnish and Norwegian. I also, I am skilled with computers and I have a vast knowledge of programming.
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I'm not going to dissect your whole post but let me point out a few errors.

the way you're connected sentences with と is incorrect. と cannot be used like english "and" to connect sentences. This is the big take-away point I think. Read up on connecting sentences in Japanese.

設定 means setting(s) (like computer settings, setup etc). The word you want is 環境.

There are many other errors. It's clear you're attempting to write way above your level with the use of a dictionary. Not that there's anything wrong with that, you will learn something. But in general, you'll write better if you stick to language which you're more confident is correct (based on your experience of how natives use them).

One other general thing is that you don't need to use 私 in every sentence; the assumption is that you're talking about yourself.

What's the nature of this "job interview" question? Did you study how Japanese job interviews are conducted, or is this just supposed to be a prompt to write something, which wouldn't necessarily actually be used in a job interview? Same thing with the first prompt; what you wrote isn't what an actual Japanese teacher would ever say, but maybe that doesn't matter.

But I agree with nadiatims -- other than the と thing she pointed out, there's not much wrong grammatically. But with many of the words it's clear you got them out of an English-Japanese dictionary and they're not quite right.

Here's my breakdown of this first sentence, setting aside the cultural appropriateness issue:
子供、　落ちに着いて下さい！座って、静かにして下さい！懲戒処分が取られるよ！あなたは厳し く処罰さ！多 動性障害があるかな。
1. 子供 isn't used as a form of address; 皆 would be possible but you really don't need any subject there.
2. It should be 落ち着いて; that's not really the right word for this situation. The second sentence is better.
3. I'm not familiar with the word 懲戒処分, but passives in Japanese are rarely used in speech referring to non-animate things. (EDIT: Google and alc suggest that this word is used primarily in business, especially military, contexts. And it's a very formal word. I also don't think 取る goes with it; "take" action is idiomatic in English and that type of phrase usually won't literally translate into Japanese.)
4. 処罰 is typically used with legal punishments, not a school situation. The あなたは is odd here too.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume this is for a class.

My suggestion would be to stick with the words and expressions you learned in class. If it is a test, then the test will only cover that which your teacher expects you to know: i.e. what you covered in class. There is no need to try and get fancy and start pulling words you don't know from a dictionary.

Thanks for looking at my post, everyone.

I was more careful with my word choice this time around, and I think I did a better job on with the classroom paragraph.

In case it isn't clear, I'm trying to be very harsh in this paragraph.

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うるさい黙って聞きなさい。静かに。座りなさい！手に負えない子供たちが対処します！ 叱りたい？　拷問を受けたい？ 多動性障害があるかな。

Shut up and listen! Sit down and be quiet! Unruly children will be dealt with! You all should know better at your age. Do you want to be scolded? To you want to be tortured? I wonder if they have a hyperactivity disorder…　

I'm still not really sure exactly what we're supposed to be commenting on. What does the teacher want you to do? Is it supposed to be funny? Are you supposed to be using structures and words that you learned in class, or does she want you looking up a lot of words and sticking them in there?

At some point it becomes more our work than yours. You will learn much more from writing something that uses things you know, and that you might actually use some day, than you will from something like what you wrote in the last post. If this isn't an option because of the way the teacher is doing things I guess you don't have a choice, but you're not going to learn anything useful from writing something that no Japanese teacher would ever say, using words you will never use in real Japanese conversation, and using lots of words and structures that you're getting from an English-Japanese dictionary (and misusing).

I apologize if this sounds harsh, but I really am trying to help you.

yudantaiteki Wrote:I'm still not really sure exactly what we're supposed to be commenting on. What does the teacher want you to do? Is it supposed to be funny? Are you supposed to be using structures and words that you learned in class, or does she want you looking up a lot of words and sticking them in there?

At some point it becomes more our work than yours. You will learn much more from writing something that uses things you know, and that you might actually use some day, than you will from something like what you wrote in the last post. If this isn't an option because of the way the teacher is doing things I guess you don't have a choice, but you're not going to learn anything useful from writing something that no Japanese teacher would ever say, using words you will never use in real Japanese conversation, and using lots of words and structures that you're getting from an English-Japanese dictionary (and misusing).

I apologize if this sounds harsh, but I really am trying to help you.

The thing is, the teacher was extremely vague.

The class is an independent study class, not a normal class with a set curriculum. It's hard to explain, but basically we are allowed to learn what we want and at the end of course we're given a test to see we're up to the task of moving on to the next level.

The rule for the writing section is that Kanji make up the bulk of the points, where word choice and grammar make up the small remainder. I've made it through Heisig's first book, and I'm itching to demonstrate my ability with those characters.

"You're a teacher that has a class full of unruly children. What do you say to get them to settle down?" is all that we were given for that question. No further instructions or information were given. So presumably, we're allowed to be as liberal as we want so long as the sentence makes sense.

I usually learn context from native media, but I have had very little experience with observing Japanese school teachers interacting with their young students because I usually watch variety shows or samurai films. That's why it's painfully apparent that I have little knowledge of how a teacher interacts with children or how a Japanese interview is conducted.

All I am requesting is that my submissions are checked to make sure I'm using the appropriate words and that the grammar isn't too shoddy. Like I said in my first post, I don't expect it to be perfect, it just needs to make sense. I'm a beginning student, so I'm sure my teacher is expecting errors. If you think the errors I've made are too grievous, then I invite you to give me a solution so that I might rectify them.

Also, in my answer to the unruly children question, I'm trying to be overly harsh to the point of being ridiculous. Aside from my ignorance, that may explain why the choice of words may not sound appropriate in that context.

Hmm, I've taught in Japan for a while so I have some idea how discipline works. I've heard teachers say うるさい to students, as well as 静かに(しなさい) and 座りなさい. I've never heard 黙る in any form or 聞きなさい used (*except in particular situations). And of course, the more ridiculous things you said are not used. In general, Japanese students find it funny if a teacher gets really mad or over the top (adults in Japanese society are expected to keep their cool and not get openly angry), so angry phrases aimed at students are kept at a minimum. If a teacher gets angry or says something mean students will laugh and feel like they've won.

Some teachers are good at really intimidating the students, but this is usually done through manner of speaking and physical proximity rather than word choice. Most schools have a discipline department and the teacher in charge of it usually is picked based on how intimidating he is--students end up having to talk to him if they get in really big trouble.

I know you weren't going for anything realistic, but the reality of the situation might be illuminating.

I appreciate that.

Thank you for that insight. I haven't had the luxury of teaching in Japan or even going there, so it's good to get cultural information like that.

In light of your information, I think I will omit 黙って聞きなさい.

A simple "うるさい" will suffice I think.

Hank_Hill Wrote:I have many skills that would be useful in an office setting. I am very socially competent and I have good interpersonal office skills. I work rather quickly and I always get my work in ahead of time. In addition, I can speak fluent Finnish and Norwegian. I also, I am skilled with computers and I have a vast knowledge of programming.

I don't think saying "I am very socially competent" is a usual thing to say in any language... consider using コミュニケーション能力 or チームワーク.

Really you'd have to completely rewrite it to sound natural, compare with:

私はオフィスの仕事に適したスキルが複数あります。まず、自分のコミュニケーション能力が高くて、チェームワークも得意です。そして、常にハイペースで物事に取り組んで、必ず与えられた仕事を締切より早めに完成します。その上、フィンランド語もノールウェイ語も流暢に話せます。最後に、パソコンも得意で、プログラッミングの知識もたくさんあります。

Hank_Hill Wrote:The thing is, the teacher was extremely vague.

The class is an independent study class, not a normal class with a set curriculum. It's hard to explain, but basically we are allowed to learn what we want and at the end of course we're given a test to see we're up to the task of moving on to the next level.

Okay, that makes more sense. I wish the teacher chose situations that you might actualy find yourself in, but there's not much you can do about that. Just a couple of comments then:
うるさい黙って聞きなさい。静かに。座りなさい！手に負えない子供たちが対処します！ 叱りたい？　拷問を受けたい？ 多動性障害があるかな。

Xがverb means that X will do the verb. Xたい？ means "Do you want to X?" I'm not familiar with 手に負えない so I can't say whether it sounds right there or not.

yudantaiteki Wrote:I'm not familiar with 手に負えない so I can't say whether it sounds right there or not.

To me 手に負えない means something like a kid "difficult to manage", not really the meaning of spoiled. It wouldn't be used in front of the said children, it's like saying "I will punish children that are too much for me to handle", lol. You'd use the word with another person concerned with childcare, for example one mother saying to another mother : 手に負えない子供を頼んですみません！

By the way Hank_Hill, you say kanji knowledge will be valued in your test and that you want to display your freshly acquired RtK skills. But the thing is, if you looked carefully at the kanjis used in the expression 手に負えない, you would have realized what the precise meaning is ("that cannot be borned with (one's) hand", literally), and that it didn't fit the context. And those kanjis were really simple. That kind of precise understanding and reflexion about kanjis is what you should aim for, instead of randomly cramming more unusual kanjis like 懲戒処分. That's exactly what I was referring to in this other post about what really is "understanding kanji" (know the meaning nuances and the word usage, whether it be in Japanese or Chinese).
How about 悪い子には罰を与えるぞ！(check actual usage here : 罰を与える). 黙りなさい seems natural, I know I've heard/seen it in classroom settings (not IRL though, just in native medias).

If I may give you a huge advice (or even a warning), it would be : you must stop translating from English, absolutely. It was really obvious in the job interview sentences. You said you wanted answers from advanced learners, so I assume the English translation wasn't intended for them, and that's what you wrote for yourself before making the Japanese sentences? Don't do that. That's precisely what lead you to misuse と, to put 私 just about everywhere when it shouldn't appear more than once (or even not at all), and to use (wrongly) one-to-one word correspondences between English and Japanese. Such dictionary usage will always fail, because an English word will have different meanings that will correspond to multiple Japanese words, and you will only be able to pick up the good one if (i) you knew most (all) of them previously and have a general sense of their usage (ii) you have an idea of the usage frequency of these Japanese words (iii) you know how to take advantage of kanjis to differentiate their respective meanings. Shocking news : a bilingual dictionary alone can't be used properly by a beginner or lower intermediate learner. It needs to come with detailed explanations of contextual usage, and/or with examples sentences. Whenever you want to use a word, please do look for bilingual sentences and use good judgment to pick the good ones ([1], [2], [3] and [4] should do the job).

Second advice, which is a direct follow-up of the first : rely more (or even only) on the words you know well, those you have seen in class (if any) and those you have seen used in native materials. If you are thinking that you will lack vocabulary doing this, that's good, because this is the truth you need to face early on : you need more exposure to real Japanese to know how words are used and which ones are the most common. Relying on a dictionary will obstruct this fact. When producing Japanese, golden rule : keep it simple. Use only words and grammar you are sure are completely accurate. This will immediately result in more natural speech, and the only thing you will need to do is increase the breadth of your grammar/vocab. Trust me, better make simple and idiomatic/natural Japanese than complicated and artifical/wrong Japanese. Look at dizmox's rewriting of your job interview sentences, this is what you should aim for.

I'm a little harsh here, but I want to help you. You are on the wrong road right now, if you keep doing written or mental word per word translation from English, you'll encounter even more trouble later on, and you will never reach an advanced level.

First of all, thank you to everyone who has replied. I've made made appropriate adjustments to the sentences based on your suggestions.

The test is next week, yet there is still one question I haven't been able to figure out:

"You come home from early from work to find your wife in the arms of the postman. How do you react?"

I seriously don't know what would be appropriate to say in this situation aside from a few insults or threats. I would like to attempt something more substantial than jealous behavior.

I'm looking for suggestions and ideas on how to handle this one.