(Just to get things straight, I made a new account for this subject specifically. I feel like it's too personal of an issue for me to go by my ordinary username.)

Anyway - I've experienced weird reactions (?) among my non-japanese speaking peers lately.

Most of the time this predicament occurs when I mention something I've been doing regarding my Japanese studies. E.g lately, I told one of my friends about having watched a movie in Japanese. I was happy about being able to understand what they said (this took me years and years of study and time).

Fyi, I really don't bring up my achievements often but after all, I want to share my happiness with my loved ones every once in a while.

On the rare occasion that I actually do bother sharing some japanese-related tidbit about my life, I'm essentially met with silence or some kind of "uhm..that nice". But sometimes I've even gotten nagged at! Like... "Oh ~ you can't POSSIBLY be able to read kanji".

A great deal of my life does take place in Japanese. A lot of the things I do are in Japanese (reading books, watching movies, chatting with people online). It's a semi-omnipresence in my life.

So this whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Sometimes (to my great dismay) I feel slightly guilty for spending so much time on my Japanese. I mean... not that I would ever stop drilling Japanese because someone complains about it... but still.

If my friends do well in their soccer teams or get straight A's I always feel happy for them. They work hard to reach their goals and I work hard to reach mine. I don't see why this Japanese thing makes them act so weird.

Why do you think this is happening?
Has anybody else experienced something like this?

Because it's not a shared interest probably.
Sure, if someone comes up to me and starts telling me about their improvement in football, I'll ask a couple of questions, but really I couldn't care less about football. I don't care how difficult it is to get better, how difficult it is to get in a new league, how crazy the last game was etc. Football doesn't interest me and what's worst, I'm not into sports in general anyway. So it's to be expected if the people you talk to aren't much into languages to start with.

As for being negative about it, it might be that people perceive learning Japanese as being really difficult and saying you're good at it comes off as pretentious. Especially since they can't tell. I know you said you're not really bragging about it or anything, but it can be tempting to be negative when you feel the other person wants to be congratulated.

Like when you say:

Abajour Wrote:Most of the time this predicament occurs when I mention something I've been doing regarding my Japanese studies. E.g lately, I told one of my friends about having watched a movie in Japanese. I was happy about being able to understand what they said (this took me years and years of study and time).

It totally depends on the context, but just mentioning this kind of feels like you want to impress ;P

Finally, if you keep talking about Japanese things to someone who has no or very little in the Japanese culture, it's not surprising that they end up saying "uhm, that's nice".

I think there are a couple similar threads to this, or maybe I'm thinking of the one about how people assume you are an anime otaku if you study Japanese ("not that there's anything wrong with that"* if you are).

I don't think most people realize how much work goes into learning a language to any degree of fluency. My coworkers occasionally come to me saying that they've started attending a class in Italian or have decided to learn Spanish. I give them manic e-mails describing the route I would take to get somewhere in these languages and how I'm excited that they've decided to open their world in this way. Weeks later I usually find that they have just been watching Game of Thrones in English or whatever show it is these days.
Similarly, my boss asked me how's it going a few weeks ago, and when I mentioned how I was trying to troubleshoot this or that issue [outside of work] so I could make the computer teach me Japanese better his reaction was, "Oh, you're still doing that Japanese stuff" as if he was dissapointed. Sorry the answer will never be "Since I finished learning Japanese, I've..."
Sometimes people think it's cute. Today in the morning meeting at my job when they asked if I had anything to add, and I didn't, they asked me to translate what they had said into Japanese. Then they cut me off when I actually took on the challenge because it's not so easy as to translate Greek Orthodox Easter and Cinco de Mayo into Japanese since they don't celebrate those things there historically and you asked me and you know I just had a large iced coffee so don't bite off more than you can chew. Anyway, it's probably good that they cut me off, because I had Anki reviews waiting on my phone.

*Has anyone seen Seinfeld dubbed into Japanese? How is it?

Successful foreign language learning is just uncommon, most people can't relate to it. Especially with a language like Japanese which is perceived as being ridiculously difficult, at least with all the cryptic characters. Wouldn't it be less impacting on others if it was French for example?

I haven't had rude comments or anything directed at me, but I've certainly felt alone about it. My one time I was seriously discouraged from learning Japanese happened because I was feeling down about how I'm not as social as others, yet wasn't "making up for it" by studying hard for good grades in school, or something else that's obviously going to have a positive influence on the future ahead of high school (I'm young, was 17-18 at the time). "Why am I spending/wasting all this time learning some language, what's it gonna do for me?"

Now that I've got to know some Japanese people and others that are serious about learning Japanese, I'm feeling a lot more like it's rewarding in a "real" way, that there's definitely value to it, so I'm fine now. Some people I can share this interest with, for others I'm thinking about it as a skill and a hobby I have that's different to the norm, but still important to me if anyone gets critical of it.

I can't remember where I read this, maybe it was AJATT or spanish-only or something similar, but there's this example of how you shouldn't brag about language proficiency because others can't relate to it. It's something like you being known for having learned a certain language pretty well, and one time when you're at a party, some guy confronts you and almost arrogantly claims that he knows the language too, in a sort of challenging way. You talk to him in the language and quickly show that you could talk circles around him--he sucks, basically. But the thing is that the people around you that witness it are mostly going to empathize with that guy, and think negatively of you instead of being impressed with your ability--because learning a language is such a foreign area and they relate to him.

If anyone knows where that is from I'd appreciate if you could tell me, I think there's a lot more to it than this.

tashippy Wrote:("not that there's anything wrong with that"* if you are).
*Has anyone seen Seinfeld dubbed into Japanese? How is it?

I'd really like to know what that line is in the Japanese dub

Why tell friends about your personal achievements in a way that often comes out badly? Some of my friends haven't acted on any of their ambitions (if any), big or small, like learning an instrument/a fine art/a physical skill/a language because they haven't acquired a passion for anything to that extent. So that's a common theme on facebook chat that I like to bring up. Motivation, ambitions, mindsets etc. sometimes I talk about how my interests have personally influenced me if I think they'd like to know. I like to go on an on about how rewarding it is to discover things you love doing then work hard at them. That's something everyone can relate to to some degree.

I agree with the general consensus so far about people not being able to relate to language learning as a passion (let alone something so far removed from English).
But I've definitely experienced this as well both about Chinese and Japanese, neither of which I'm good at.
From my experiences, people either:
Have no interest in it or little ability to relate because learning or reading in your spare time isn't a favorite pass time for most university students (especially if its not for their program).
or
Assume that "Studying Japanese" really means watching anime for hours a day.
Especially if you don't have a teacher, self study of languages is regarded by a lot of my peers as totally futile.

I forget where i heard this, possibly Elliott Hulse on Youtube, but someone said that when you make positive changes in your life, it makes those around you uncomfortable. It forces them to look at themselves critically, which is uncomfortable for most people. So I'm sure your friends don't realize they're being rude, it may just be a reflection of how their complacency in life makes them feel(or whatever, pure speculation here with no offense intended).

Anyways, try not get down about it! I've been (and I'm sure many others have been) in the same spot. Don't let other people stop you from doing what you love.

When I was a freshman I took the bus back from New York to my college, and by chance sat next to a new friend I had made a couple of months before. The bus happened to go by a campground and some hiking trails I had been to with my family many times as a young boy, and I excitedly told my friend about it only to be met with indifference. When I related this to my aunt later she told me, "One thing you'll learn as you get older is nobody cares where you've been and what you've done." It's always stuck with me because it's proven true.

I told a variation of this advice to a friend of mine who visited me in Japan. It was his first time out of America and I knew he'd be excited to go home and tell his family and friends about the interesting things he saw and did. I had studied abroad in Japan so I knew from my own experience that people aren't actually excited to hear your stories from abroad. So I told my friend, "Look, if you talk about your time here nobody is really going to understand and you'll be met with blank stares. It's probably easier to know that beforehand, so I'm just letting you know." Later he told me he was surprised by how true my advice was.

Anyway, it works the same with language learning. Nobody cares what you do in your spare time, unless it's something that they also do or have always wanted to do. It's a bit like telling someone about a band you like but they've never heard of--they might humor you, but they sure as hell don't care.

It is possible to get people to listen to you with interest about your Japanese studies or experiences you've had. But you need to do it much in the same way that people like Neil Degrasse Tyson or Carl Sagan have managed to make laymen inspired and interested in science. Or, much in the same way that stand up comedians like Jim Gaffigan can get away with talking about Hot Pockets and bacon for ten minutes. That is, you basically need to find a few anecdotes or things that are interesting or funny about learning the language that everyone can relate to. And if you can't do that, nobody is ever going to want to hear about your language learning.

I kind of think of it like photography. Many people own a camera and will take pictures of family or trips, and share those pictures, but few people really care about advanced aspects of photography. The camera is simply a tool to preserve memories and share them with friends. If someone came up to me and started talking about filters and lenses and the minute differences between similar camera models, I wouldn't really care. Just having a reasonably clear and high resolution picture is good enough for me. Similarly, a lot of people talk about wanting to learn a language in the abstract, but the idea of wanting to read a newspaper or watch a tv show in Japanese just for the sake of doing it in Japanese may not register with many people. I think for a lot of people, just being able to do the basics for a trip or whatever they need to do is enough, which is why there are so many phrase books and tapes that focus on that. The idea of making the language a target of serious, time consuming study in and of itself to accomplish really advanced tasks may be less relatable, similar to studying cameras in detail to get the perfect picture.

Tzadeck Wrote:...my aunt later she told me, "One thing you'll learn as you get older is nobody cares where you've been and what you've done." It's always stuck with me because it's proven true...

I think that's an amazing piece of advice, something I only just recently started to think about. I used to be very enthusiastic about my hobbies and I always felt like it drove people away. Slowly I started to get the hint that they either didn't care or thought I was bragging. I was just excited about the stuff I like and and wanted to share. I always felt like I have had hobbies nobody else has. Art when I was a kid, music later one, extreme sports but I lived in a small town and was the only kid that was into that. I never had anyone else that shared my same interests. I was always the kid to be trying to get my friends to try out the stuff I liked... well I guess this is also one of those things nobody cares about lol, but I really thought your post was good Tzadeck. It really hit me because I was starting to stumble onto that but had never heard it put into words. Thanks.

Agree with Tzadeck. Reminds me of when I was teaching, i would sometimes get students come and (for lack of a better term) talk at me about their really obscure interests. Of course I humored them and feigned interest but sometimes it was actually really awkward.

But also keep in mind some of it may come from totally legitimate concern that you are spending a lot of time doing something which may not be that useful (ie. wasting your time). That's why you might get that kind of reaction about something like Japanese but not about something like university studies or something perceived as useful.

Your friends aren't interested in your Japanese studies and that's totally normal. I'm sure it's not that they have a problem with it.
I have a friend whose hobby is bodybuilding. He puts in a lot of effort, goes to the gym six times a week, uses steroids and whatnot. I respect him for his efforts but I am not genuinely interested in his achievements. Sometimes it's nice to hear that he's improving steadily but the details aren't significant. He knows this and speaks about the topic only when asked.
Another friend of mine plays poker. He's good at it, makes money but we never really talk about it. Every now and then he mentions that he had a bad/good period mainly because it affects his budget.
Similarly I'm a friend of theirs who has yet another hobby to which they can't relate. It's not a big deal and it certainly doesn't mean they don't care about me.
I feel this applies to everything somehow. To "outsiders" things are interesting at most only to a small extent or on the surface.

"No one cares what you do, they care why you do it."

There's a purpose in everything we do, and it's easy to forget the why that inspired us in the first place when we're focused on things that recently became physically or intellectually 'ours'.

Nobody cares that I'm learning Japanese, but I know very few friends who aren't interested, if not impressed that I want to teach English in Japan for a while after (hopefully/maybe during) university. Even though it all started as a love for anime, I discovered the rewarding elements of language learning, and now it's a life priority to do a bit of teaching in Japan. Giving something back to the culture that kickstarted this passion.

I strongly think that if people take the time to understand the reasons behind others' interests, no matter how strange or uninteresting they seem at first, common ground is invariably met, and both people gain something from the exchange. Likewise, your hard work suddenly becomes interesting to people. They want to know how you get along, and vice versa.

Expanding on the first quote:

"No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care."

Edit: although, that's not to say there aren't people out there who do things purely for personal satisfaction. It's not like everyone has altruistic motives underlying their everything they do. Even so/partial tangent, I love this video:

I don't think you really explained what this weird behavior is. It just sounds like they're not being enthusiastic or encouraging.

That might be because they don't think it's a useful enough skill to be worth it. They might even be right, language learning isn't exactly the most profitable undertaking, especially not Japanese (which takes even longer than other languages, and is only spoken in one country).

If that's all they're doing, that seems like a normal reaction. You can't expect them to understand why you wish to learn Japanese, unless you found a way to explain it (which would be pretty difficult, since to understand your reasoning they'd have to learn quite a bit about Japanese culture and the country, first). Would you prefer if they faked it, and encouraged you to do something they don't even understand, just to be superficially nice?

That's not what a real friend does. If you really want a friend's support, it is your job to help him understand why what you're doing is worthwhile first. And, in some cases, when that's hard to do, perhaps it's better to just rely on yourself, don't involve your friends in something they don't understand. Friendship doesn't have to involve someone holding your hand through everything you do. It's more than enough to have some things in common with someone, to be their friend. You don't have to share everything.

[ファブリス]

I can totally relate to that.

I think you have, perhaps unwittingly, found something about human nature, at least human nature in its current state of evolution, which has been driving many a spiritual "seeker".

At the heart of interaction between people, and it can be seen and felt more vividly with your loved ones of course, there is something which can become deeply unsatisfying.

Tzadeck kinda alluded to it, in "folk wisdom" you could describe it like his aunt did "One thing you'll learn as you get older is nobody cares where you've been and what you've done."

You could describe this in many ways, but at the heart of it essentially, you can feel like you're not really meeting with the other person, and/or that they are not meeting with you. Instead you realize that your self image is meeting their self image.

It works both ways. They may be projecting onto you what they think would be a more reasonable or valuable use of your time, while you are so self absorbed into your pursuit(s) that you may not realize that it is your pursuit alone. That the whole context within which it satisfies your needs and hopes and desires, does not necessarily match the context within which even your closest friends and relatives live their life.

I don't know in what angle you are looking at this or if you relate to it at all. If it seems all too serious, then forget about it. If it makes some sense, then you may find some solace in Eckhart Tolle's first two books. I think in the second (A New Earth) he writes more about interpersonal relationships. In particular he writes about how powerful it can be to try to simply be present with, and for, another person.

Perhaps all the shared interests is really just an excuse to simply be with another fellow human being. But since the modus operandi of the brain today, is to make sense of everything in a rational way (cf. the recent video I shared The divided brain)... then you try and make sense of it in a logical way. Because we can't make sense of who, or what we are, in a non -rational, non logical way; or we have lost this ability, we feel completely lost without the story and the narratives.

On another tangent, I have an ambient music CD with some lyrics about passion and love. What is love? What is passion? It's interesting to me because passion can be a very left brain thing. Passion makes sense. Typically to drive your passion and motivation you're told that you should find reasons for it. Make long bullet lists of why you should be doing xyz today, and why it's gonna be so good for your future. It's all so very rational. The brain frames everything you do in a logical context. All of it, is constructed. And so then when this context is compared with someone else's context , it clashes, and becomes very unsatisfying, because it shows how empty it really is.

Anyways.. that's a huge topic in and off itself (about a very simple truth, some say)... but I suppose the good news is that, short of rewiring your brain, you can unapologetically acknowledge that you're simply doing something that suits your own needs/desires, all the while you can feel freer to do something and not being disappointed or hurt in anyway that other people don't share the interest, *because you see that they also do the very same thing*. In another words "Everyone's tripping" (their own trip).

Most people just don't care. I have a friend who is into hockey and F1 racing, two things that couldn't be further from my radar. I don't care, but I usually humor him, at least for a little while.

Before I moved to Taiwan, all of this "language stuff" was online only for me, because I had nobody to talk about it with in person (my wife humors me). When I first moved here, it was really weird actually saying this stuff out loud (talking about learning methods and such). But now I know people that I can geek out with any time and they totally get it. Find people that are into the same things you're into, and it can be very rewarding. But don't expect other people to get it. They won't.

Also, "I'm learning Japanese" isn't impressive to anyone, except maybe in an "oh, that must be difficult" sort of way. And if you meet their stereotype of "people who learn Japanese" in any way, they'll likely write you off anyway. What is more impressive is being able to use the language professionally. People take you more seriously when you can say "I'm a professional translator" or "I'm doing a PhD in Japanese literature at X university." Even then, it's just a fleeting "Oh, wow" kind of thing. Because they can't relate to it. So find someone who can, and don't bother the other people with it.

I experienced the same.. My friends never care about my achievements of being able to communicate and write in japanese... I guess only my mom appreciated me for learning the language.. Either way, I guess the reason is they don't have any interest with regards to this matter.. I mean, it's like nothing for them but to you it's very special.. I'm the so called "have his own world" type of person.. All of my friends here never had any interest about my hobbies including learning japanese.. The thing is, you might feel alone because your friends couldn't appreciate your stuffs, but don't you worry because there are lots of people whom you can share your interest with, we are here.. Find friends whom you can share your interest with, like in social media sites.. It's not like you will leave your other friends whom you can't share your interests, but looking for some new friends in addition to what you already have I guess do make sense.

I vowed to become fluent in Japanese one day with my friends some 6 years ago and I'm the only one who is still studying it right now (everyone else stopped after they graduated from high school or a year into university). Some of them say I'm obsessed about Japan, probably because they're no longer into learning the language. Personally I don't think it is a bad thing to follow my own interests.

Everyone's path is different. Don't worry about your friends not being (as) interested in Japanese.

Abajour Wrote:If my friends do well in their soccer teams or get straight A's I always feel happy for them. They work hard to reach their goals and I work hard to reach mine. I don't see why this Japanese thing makes them act so weird.

Why do you think this is happening?
Has anybody else experienced something like this?

To be perfectly honest, I think you are probably the only one acting weird. From what I understand, your friends just simply don't have an interest in Japanese. I don't really think a lack of enthusiasm can be classified as "weird". I do feel, however, that your reaction to the lack of enthusiasm is a bit strange.

I don't mean to overstep, but I find it interesting you call this "too personal" an issue despite the fact that you claim your friends are the ones acting weird. I think it shows that on a subconscious level you know its you, rather than them. Why else would you go through the trouble of using an anonymous screen name?

Reading further into your post, there are signs of guilt there, namely about the amount of time you dedicate to Japanese. I think perhaps you feel that you aren't devoting enough time for your friends. As a result, their lack of enthusiasm almost feels like a punishment. It makes you feel isolated, almost like there's you and them, rather than all of you together.

What you feel is simply guilt. It has little to do with them, and everything to do with you. For whatever reason you feel like you devoted too much time to Japanese. As a result, you are painfully conscious of the disinterest of your friends in that subject. This, in turn, makes you feel "different," or isolated. It wasn't like that before, so you naturally have to blame their behavior. They're just acting weird. You don't actually believe that subconsciously, but thinking about it any more deeply would force you examine the source and validity of your guilt.

In respect to a lot of how people react there is a somewhat reversed issue in respect to people I have interacted with in my life in that I genuinely enjoy listening to people being passionate about things in their life (regardless of whether or not it is a passion I share or have experienced), only a few times when it has been a topic of discussion among myself and a few intimate relations, the response has been that such an attitude to take interest in other people without having the same interest as them, is "weird; something I shouldn't waste my time on".

Maybe this expression is relevant?
裏には裏がある
(there is a reverse side to the reverse side)

tashippy Wrote:*Has anyone seen Seinfeld dubbed into Japanese? How is it?

I would check it out of morbid curiosity but I cannot even imagine Seinfeld working in any language other than American English.

EDIT: Err, so no I haven't but I totally would check it out if I could.

uisukii Wrote:In respect to a lot of how people react there is a somewhat reversed issue in respect to people I have interacted with in my life in that I genuinely enjoy listening to people being passionate about things in their life (regardless of whether or not it is a passion I share or have experienced), only a few times when it has been a topic of discussion among myself and a few intimate relations, the response has been that such an attitude to take interest in other people without having the same interest as them, is "weird; something I shouldn't waste my time on".

Maybe this expression is relevant?
裏には裏がある
(there is a reverse side to the reverse side)

I'm really glad you said that. I was feeling weird because I'd be interested by pretty much any enthusiasm of theirs someone chose to tell me about, unless it was something I really actively disagreed with (in which case I wouldn't talk to them for very long). I love seeing people being enthusiastic about stuff, and sharing knowledge of it, it's one of the most inspiring things. Isn't that a good thing in some ways? To be interested in and curious about other people and new things. Especially if it's a person close to you, like a friend or family member, I would think many would be more likely to take an interest since they're already interested in the person - my family always shares their quite different interests with each other, my mum's gardening, my sister's fashion and makeup, my dad's history and aeroplanes and classical music, my Japanese and geeky stuff. You can gain new appreciation for things you weren't previously interested by (I'm not very knowledgeable about it, but I listen to classical music on occasion now too).

My mum always likes to say (especially after telling me something extremely random) that nothing you learn is wasted. I've found that to be true often, some small thing I've learned has turned out to be useful, even, whether practically so or a reference that makes sense that wouldn't have before (knowing what a Pleyel piano is, for instance). Since I'm interested in literature, that can be really valuable, all sorts of stuff comes up. Well, really fields of interest very often connect and overlap in some way, if you think about it.

Ampharos64 Wrote:I love seeing people being enthusiastic about stuff, and sharing knowledge of it, it's one of the most inspiring things. Isn't that a good thing in some ways? To be interested in and curious about other people and new things. Especially if it's a person close to you, like a friend or family member

Can't be emphasized enough. There's something extremely motivating about listening to someone's passion. One of my friend's is into fitness (so much that they're trying to build a gym), and I have another who is into archery (so much that they're trying to go to the olympics). I have ZERO interest in either topic, but I could listen to them all day (well, maybe not ). I'm genuinely interested, asking questions, like when they bounce ideas off of me etc.

One reciprocates with my passion of surfing, and the other with my passion of Japanese. There are definitely people like that out there. I don't really sign on to the belief that "nobody cares where you've been and what you've done", but everyone thinks differently, Maybe I'm not old enough (30), and maybe I'm still too optimistic. =)