わりぃ、勘弁してくれよ。

Ah yes, well, the above two posts are right. Your Japanese was just awesome!!!! Go and post it all over the board and in every thread because you will be sooooooo welcomed if you do!!!!!!


かんんぱってねぇ！

Ok, joking aside, I agree with a number of the early posters that wrong and, much worse, inappropriate Japanese just randomly thrown in threads is annoying. It's a kind of "look at me aren't I cool" sort of thing. Much like the kid in grade school who ate the glue or put the clay up their nose to get attention.

If the OP really does want to practice their Japanese and aren't intending to annoy people they should start a thread labelled as such or go over to lang-8 and post there. Though they should be hoping for corrections rather than getting upset by them. The only way you get better is by being corrected.

pauro02 Wrote:じゃ、米なさい皆様。

うさん臭いな、こりゃ。

Hyperborea Wrote:かんんぱってねぇ！

A couple more iterations of intentional mistakes and we'll be speaking 岩手弁... http://www.hougen-love.com/dialect_iwate...epparu.php

Someone wanna close this thread? I don't imagine that this is going to somehow turn around and be useful to the community.

Our fearless moderators appear to be taking the day off...

We might as well turn this thread into a thread about insulting each other in Japanese. Romaji, kana, and/or kanji: it doesn't matter. No holds barred.

REH94 Wrote:I was hoping this topic would die but I guess not. Anyway, pauro, on April 15th Tzadeck corrected you "pauro02: It's にほんご" (on 2 months before Tokyo thread) You clearly saw his/her correction and proceeded to reply "皆、酷い。あなた達は日本じゃない、だからうるさいな。またく。" Then on April 19th you wrote "nihonggo no benkyou o benkyoushite kudasai" (on Best novels/books for beginners thread) which is where Stian simply quoted you, bolded nihonggo, and wrote "Interesting..." [not "Nihonggo = interesting"]. Stian's reply to you was not rude at all. If I was to classify anything as rude it would be your reply back to Stian "nihongo = 日本語　＝　にほんご＝　ニホンゴ　happy?".

It was also corrected once more by uisukii:

uisukii Wrote:

pauro02 Wrote:あの、みんながすごいでしょね。でもやぱりにほんっごがむずかしいだよ。だれかたつけて?

You'll find a fair few fairly experienced learners of Japanese (by the way, 日本語 is にほんご, there is no glottal stop/っ)

REH94 Wrote:Now, can we please let this topic die?

Sorry I messed up =(

yudantaiteki Wrote:If any beginner was thinking of practicing their Japanese here, this thread will sure let them know that's unwelcome on the forum

This seems pretty unfair to me. I'm sure anyone who wants to practice Japanese would be very welcome, but in the proper threads / situations. Especially since the poster doesn't appear willing to actually correct mistakes (since it took at least 3 for にほんっご alone) it comes across as trollish - which wouldn't be appreciated even if his posts were in English.

Anyway I guess I've already wasted too much time replying to this thread, apologies for bumping it back to the top

Does it count as insulting when the guy's just a troll? Has anybody actually tried typing 米なさい？ How many times did you have to press return and space to deliberately get that conversion?

It never shows up. If you type ごめんなさい on Google, you'll never see it. You'd have to misspell it, but if you type ごめなさい you get it immediately. I could definitely see it being an innocent mistake. If you don't know that the ん and な are separate (gomenasai), then you'd easily get that mistake. You have to type 'nn' to make sure you get the ん before doing な. If you don't really know your hiragana and are just going Romaji -> Kanji, then ya those kind of mistakes are bound to occur.

vix86 Wrote:It never shows up. If you type ごめんなさい on Google, you'll never see it. You'd have to misspell it, but if you type ごめなさい you get it immediately. I could definitely see it being an innocent mistake. If you don't know that the ん and な are separate (gomenasai), then you'd easily get that mistake. You have to type 'nn' to make sure you get the ん before doing な. If you don't really know your hiragana and are just going Romaji -> Kanji, then ya those kind of mistakes are bound to occur.

I was typing こめなさい. I never would've imagined 米 was the default for ごめ... There's still something a bit 怪しい going on, but I guess I'll give pauro02 and Google the benefit of the doubt this time.

It's funny how when some people get so sure of their skill level they seem to, somewhere along the line, start pretending to not remember what it's like to be starting out.

Also, being young.

We've established that it's better to stick to the language everyone can understand rather than communicating in different levels of Japanese everywhere, but we don't need to be cynical towards faulty beginner Japanese. That's not the helpful spirit of this forum, it's Gaijinpot.

Hyperborea Wrote:

pauro02 Wrote:はい、はい。分かりました。

Obviously not, based on your response.

I have no idea how this is a logical response to what he said and not a non-sequitur. Did you think he meant 分かりました in the sense of (Ok, I won't post any Japanese with mistakes anymore)? 'Cuz I don't think that's what he meant.

I thought most of the thread up to your post was spent pointing out to pauro that we are a friendly environment and that we don't denigrate people for making mistakes. I guess you disproved that.

NightSky Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:If any beginner was thinking of practicing their Japanese here, this thread will sure let them know that's unwelcome on the forum

This seems pretty unfair to me. I'm sure anyone who wants to practice Japanese would be very welcome, but in the proper threads / situations. Especially since the poster doesn't appear willing to actually correct mistakes (since it took at least 3 for にほんっご alone) it comes across as trollish - which wouldn't be appreciated even if his posts were in English.

I'm going to have to differ with that. If I were a mod, Hyperborea would have a 1 week suspension.

IMO, insulting or making fun of someone's Japanese ability on the forum should be absolutely zero tolerance. Once is a 1 week suspension, 2 is a permanent ban. This is a Japanese learning forum; if you want to suggest that he should post in Japanese in a different forum or not post in Japanese when the OP says they can't read kana that's fine. But mocking someone's Japanese ability is rude and shouldn't be tolerated.

yudantaiteki Wrote:I'm going to have to differ with that. If I were a mod, Hyperborea would have a 1 week suspension.

What he said wasn't exactly wrong though. This whole premise of this thread is begging for that kind of response.

Edit: If you check where exactly he was posting Japanese, getting correcting and afterwards making this topic complaining, it was generally in an unrelated topic where the language spoken until then was English. I just think he should have stuck to English in that context and avoided making this topic entirely...

yudantaiteki Wrote:If I were a mod

That this is only a wish and not reality I thank Fabrice's good judgment (and possibly cosmic awareness).

I suppose I need to realize that there are those on the board who are just fine with trolls or trollish behaviour and are quite willing to make excuses for them.

There's a difference between a troll and a new poster who's a little overzealous and doesn't pay attention to where he's posting Japanese.

@Hyperborea

I think most people were still giving him the benefit of the doubt, but if you thought you were dealing with a troll in that post, you weren't doing a very good job of it. What you posted is what could be classified as "feeding the troll".

I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that someone would come to a forum like this and think they're welcome to post Japanese anywhere. That doesn't make them a troll.

I could see someone coming to a forum like this and thinking they're welcome to post Japanese anywhere. But I'd think that the Japanese would have to do with the current topic if they post in that topic.

Right, but that doesn't automatically mean troll.

yudantaiteki Wrote:Right, but that doesn't automatically mean troll.

And I suppose that once they've been told not to do it but continue to do it, it also doesn't mean that they're a troll? Or when they're told again and they still do it? Or when they post gibberish and they're corrected and they rant about people correcting them? When do they cross that line, then?

They may not be a major troll - those who come purposely with the intent to disrupt the forum and are probably a lost cause. But they sure appear to be a minor troll - those who come possibly with the intent the forum was set up for but then carry on without following the rules and conventions. Those later kind are possibly savable but not with coddling.

blackbrich Wrote:I could see someone coming to a forum like this and thinking they're welcome to post Japanese anywhere.

Much like one might think they could go to "How To Learn Any Language" board and post ANY language on ANY thread but you can't. You are specifically allowed only to post in English except in threads marked as such. I don't think we have any written rules to that effect but we sure have a community culture to such.

[ファブリス]

Hyperborea Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:If I were a mod

That this is only a wish and not reality I thank Fabrice's good judgment (and possibly cosmic awareness).

I suppose I need to realize that there are those on the board who are just fine with trolls or trollish behaviour and are quite willing to make excuses for them.

It may be my fault for misusing the word in the first place, but please let's make an effort to use the word troll for actual trolling and not every time someone asks a silly question, or makes typos and whatnot.

Although I would prefer this community to make efforts to welcome learners of all levels, and also various education backgrounds and motivations behind their pursuit.. I also recognise that each and every community is unique and it's fine if this one doesn't suit all types of Japanese learners. Nonetheless we can still make an effort to be patient with people who are new to the forum.

Admin: thread closed.