I've been getting a bit depressed lately, and that's because of my job. It's not that I hate teaching English, but doing so at a juku has become increasingly upsetting as I realize that the vast majority of my students are not particularly interested in learning English anyway (not that that bothers me at all, but if they were it would make things a ton easier as in like allowing me to teach them English at all), and that plus a few other typical shit that comes with the job (like the fact that they knowing I have a good command of Japanese they don't want me to use it all, even when the kids don't understand (which as you can expect is exceedingly often), with the excuse that if the parents find out I'm speaking Japanese with their kids it would be disappointing as they were looking for an English-only environment in the first place anyway, etc.) is turning what at first was a dream job a kind of agony.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this were rather the norm and that most juku English teachers eventually grow sick of their jobs and end up either relocating, finding a different job or going back home. So, for those of you that started as Japanese teachers and eventually had enough of it for one reason or another, did you find your way out and into different job? can you share a bit of your story?

If it isn't teaching English, I could make a living doing programming work or translation work: English-Español-Japanese-Italian. My Japanese is not quite there yet, but it won't be forever before it is.

If you are actually a good programmer then you should be looking for somewhere to do that, probably in Tokyo. Its one of the few skillsets that there are jobs for non Japanese speaking foreigners.

How come you don't need to speak Japanese to get a job like that?

Growl Wrote:How come you don't need to speak Japanese to get a job like that?

I've seen a bunch that at least require a conversational level so that you can communicate with the Japanese staff. I do wonder about things like comments, documentation, meetings, general huddles/scrums etc as well. You'd mostly be writing in a programming language though, rather than needing to produce business-level Japanese worthy of being read by clients. Some companies also have international projects with people involved in localisation, or may just be a Tokyo branch of a company based in an English-speaking country. Whatever's going on, there are definitely job listings, so start applying or studying or whatever it is you need to do.

Yes, I am, and yes, I think you're right, most English teachers probably end up growing sick of their jobs and finding something else.

Part of the problem, as I'm sure you know, is that they don't just want you to teach English. They want you to act the way they expect a "foreign" person to act. The more non-Japanese you are, the happier everyone is.

If you were a Japanese English teacher, no one would care whether you spoke Japanese. But if you don't look "Japanese," then it's not okay.

On the other hand, I've had a couple of high-paying office jobs here and I wouldn't even consider working for a Japanese company again. Check my site if you want more details on how wonderful that is.

Teaching English can be a good job, but sometimes you have to put up with being treated like the pet foreigner.

I started out teaching English in an Eikaiwa. I left there when an acquaintance of mine, who had his own English school, was leaving Japan for a couple years and I took over his school when he left. About a year after he got back, the burnout was starting to hit overload, so I started looking for anything else I could do. I ended up finding a job in a ski resort. The first winter, I worked as a night manager for a rental property management company, then was unemployed for the summer. The next winter, I worked as a concierge of a hotel, then moved into the office and worked reservations year-round through to the end of the next winter.

At that point, I moved down to Tokyo for my current job. Back while teaching English, I had attended a sci-fi convention, and met the staff members of a Japanese companies that produces licensed products based on (both Japanese and Western) movies, comics, anime, manga, etc (both Japanese and Western). Over the years, I kept in (infrequent) contact with one of the staff members. When they decided they wanted to hire a native English speaker for their International Marketing and Sales department, they let me know, and I came down for the interview, which went well enough that I got the job. And that's how I ended up where I am now.

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:On the other hand, I've had a couple of high-paying office jobs here and I wouldn't even consider working for a Japanese company again. Check my site if you want more details on how wonderful that is.

Haha, your blog post about that is pretty f'in hilarious. I'm considering taking an office job in Tokyo in a few months if I get the offer... let's hope you're not 100% right.

As for me, I'm an English teacher on JET, and I love it. I'm really good at amusing myself and my school never gets mad at me. So I can study Japanese or whatever I'm into at the moment, waste time on this forum, read books, talk to the other teachers, hang out with the kids, go to club practice, whatever. And then I get paid enough to drink too much and chase tail (or I did, before I got a serious-ish gf a few months back) and all that on the off-hours. I am a good teacher though, and take it seriously to the extent that I do it. I used to have a ton of classes but it's been more relaxed the last couple of years. Also, my apartment and school are right in Kyoto city, so it's a sweet location.

I'm an English teacher (eikaiwa) and enjoy it, but I definitely understand where you're coming from. My last job (different eikaiwa) was incredibly painful full of kids who had been taught that English class == game time. Games are great at all, but Christ - who can keep up with running five games a class?

So yeah - maybe you just need a change of students? 7-9 years old is the best age range for teaching, I find (although the housewives are easy enough too) - if you're doing juku stuff I guess you have those zombie 14 year olds? A whole classroom of those would kill me, I think. I have kids classes where they're falling over each other to shout out English at me and their enthusiasm makes the whole thing worthwhile.

The problem with "english teaching" in Japan is that they are jobs that don't grow. You'll never take home a wage to "raise a family" as an ALT working for a company. You sure as hell won't be doing it at an eikaiwa/juku. There are direct hire contracts, but if you don't like the work...then I'd just move on.

I'm looking to move on myself. Biggest issue is just finding the right job/connection. I'm actually looking to do programming myself as well.

Tzadeck Wrote:

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:On the other hand, I've had a couple of high-paying office jobs here and I wouldn't even consider working for a Japanese company again. Check my site if you want more details on how wonderful that is.

Haha, your blog post about that is pretty f'in hilarious. I'm considering taking an office job in Tokyo in a few months if I get the offer... let's hope you're not 100% right.

As for me, I'm an English teacher on JET, and I love it. I'm really good at amusing myself and my school never gets mad at me. So I can study Japanese or whatever I'm into at the moment, waste time on this forum, read books, talk to the other teachers, hang out with the kids, go to club practice, whatever. And then I get paid enough to drink too much and chase tail (or I did, before I got a serious-ish gf a few months back) and all that on the off-hours. I am a good teacher though, and take it seriously to the extent that I do it. I used to have a ton of classes but it's been more relaxed the last couple of years. Also, my apartment and school are right in Kyoto city, so it's a sweet location.

Is it true that the JET is more like a cultural exchange than work? I heard that from an actual JET English dude.

Alright, so, what do I do specifically?

@JapaneseRuleOf7 Dude, so like, there's only killing myself after reading your post. So it's a lost cause. On the other hand if I could get a programming job that is just programming and more programming I wouldn't mind the extra hours.

Growl Wrote:@JapaneseRuleOf7 Dude, so like, there's only killing myself after reading your post. So it's a lost cause. On the other hand if I could get a programming job that is just programming and more programming I wouldn't mind the extra hours.

I wouldn't be so optimistic.

However, the IT company I currently work for is trying really hard to hire native English speakers as programmers. If anyone is interested, shoot me an email and I'll try to hook you up with my HR department.

Be warned, JapaneseRuleOf7's blog post is eerily accurate.

Also, the pay is REALLY low compared to what you could be making in America.

Define "REALLY low." Would the pay be about ４０万 a month? Or less?

I did my time on JET too.
In general my job was a lot of fun, but like a lot of english teachers the general attitude towards english teaching got to me more and more after a few years. I never intended it to be a long-term job though so I guess I got what I expected.

There are some people who manage to make a good career out of teaching english, but usually it means either having to invest a considerable amount of time and money in getting more qualifications or focusing on the business side of things and starting your own school. There isn't really any career progression from just working and gaining more experience as you go as there might be in some other jobs. If you stay working in an eikaiwa or as an ALT, pretty much no matter how good you get at your job you will still be easily replaceable.

If I were you I'd be looking to move on as soon as possible, whether that be to a different job in Japan or heading back to my own country. There are computing jobs about, but be aware, like other people have said, that working conditions and pay have a reputation for being worse than in Europe or the US.

Not all Japanese companies are terrible to work for, the one I work for sticks properly to employment rules (or has so far). Overtime is always paid and for the most part optional, and the foreign staff members seem to be treated with the same respect as the Japanese staff members. However, if you're trying to get started in a new profession you may have to just accept what you're offered, which in Japan may not be that great.

partner55083777 Wrote:I wouldn't be so optimisict?

I don't understand this comment lol, how is my statement any optimistic?

partner55083777 Wrote:Also, the pay is REALLY low compared to what you could be making in America.

It's not like I'm chasing a high-paying job, I'm making 32万 a month minus taxes, but I live in a small city so my apartment rent is really cheap and my school is just around the corner. On the other hand there's the getting sick of this plus the depressing fact of it being a dead end.

I've never taught English in Japan... but have u tried networking?
My friend had a bachelors degree in geology (with no teaching experiece) and went there to live with out a job lined up. That was a couple years ago. Anyways right now he is working in a japanese public school and is loving it. I don't remember him mentioning any of the problems you mentioned.

If you want a better teaching environment I'm sure its out there...

vix86 Wrote:Define "REALLY low." Would the pay be about ４０万 a month? Or less?

If you are talking about programming then that sounds about right for entry level but anyone with experience will probably be making roughly double that. It's possible, assuming you are fairly skilled and have good connections, to make triple that but it is definitely pretty rare unless you are contracting or set up your own company.

As as a real example I got around 80万 a month at my first job here (2005) despite not knowing Japanese at all. (I had around ten years of experience in that industry at the time.)

tokyostyle Wrote:If you are talking about programming then that sounds about right for entry level but anyone with experience will probably be making roughly double that. It's possible, assuming you are fairly skilled and have good connections, to make triple that but it is definitely pretty rare unless you are contracting or set up your own company.

As as a real example I got around 80万 a month at my first job here (2005) despite not knowing Japanese at all. (I had around ten years of experience in that industry at the time.)

Wow. I really need to jump ship then. How did you find your first job? Did you use gaijinpot or something similar? Or networking? This has been my biggest hitch so far. Lots of advertised spots are mid/senior level positions which I wouldn't fit due to my little/no experience, so I need something entry level-ish.

vix86 Wrote:Wow. I really need to jump ship then. How did you find your first job? Did you use gaijinpot or something similar? Or networking? This has been my biggest hitch so far. Lots of advertised spots are mid/senior level positions which I wouldn't fit due to my little/no experience, so I need something entry level-ish.

Every good job I ever had came through some form of networking. Just email me and we can discuss something more specific but even an entry-level programming job in Tokyo should be paying better than all but the best English jobs.

Also if anyone is proficient in php and doesn't mind working with porn all day you should contact DMM right away. I'm not sure how much Japanese that job requires but it's for the worldwide department so I bet it is minimal.

vix86 Wrote:Define "REALLY low." Would the pay be about ４０万 a month? Or less?

I'm talking like 25万 a month, if you're lucky. And this is in Tokyo.

Growl Wrote:@JapaneseRuleOf7 Dude, so like, there's only killing myself after reading your post. So it's a lost cause. On the other hand if I could get a programming job that is just programming and more programming I wouldn't mind the extra hours.

When you're in an environment like JapaneseRuleOf7 described and making shit money, the extra hours start to bring you down.

@tokyostyle, I would jump at the drop of a hat to be making 40万＋ a month. 80万 would be insane. I'll shoot you a short email.

Just to provide a reference, entry level programming jobs in the company I'm working at start out at 30万 per month plus biannual bonuses. And this is the top Internet company in Japan.

A handful of other companies (DeNA, HNN) pay closer to 40万 but you're competing against a thousand other programmers who want the same spots.

IMO, the most likely scenario for a foreigner transitioning out of a teaching job would be a single year contract (not 正社員) at around 30-40万 with no bonus.

Surprised nobody has mentioned investment banks yet. New hires with no experience get 60-70万 + bonus where I work, plus relatively chill hours (9:30 - 6:30 is pretty typical). No Japanese required.

I don't know what other banks are like though.

I've heard it mentioned by other people, but having almost no idea what you would do at an investment bank, I've never looked into it. Working at a bank too, wouldn't really go very far toward putting experience toward programming so I can get a job at some of the more big name companies like Google.

kitakitsune Wrote:Just to provide a reference, entry level programming jobs in the company I'm working at start out at 30万 per month plus biannual bonuses. And this is the top Internet company in Japan.

This is definitely a problem when discussing monthly income because the standard bonus system would give you an extra 30万 twice a year right? I've actually never been paid on this system so I'm only guessing based on how it's been explained to me.

In any case this sparked a lot more interest than I realized so I'm going to need to do a lot more research before I can give an intelligent and up-to-date reply. I might know way too many people who are working for foreign companies and it's skewing my perspective a lot. Also I'm assuming a flat 12 month payment system and pre-tax wages so that's before the government and insurance man gets their cut.

fakewookie Wrote:Surprised nobody has mentioned investment banks yet. New hires with no experience get 60-70万 + bonus where I work, plus relatively chill hours (9:30 - 6:30 is pretty typical). No Japanese required.

I don't know what other banks are like though.

You mean doing Excel + VBA ? Is it a Western firm where you work.

Thank you for all the insight provided. It's definitively very interesting. Even though none of the examples include my line of work. If, by any chance, there's someone who knows a little bit about jobs in the field of FPGA/ASIC/circuit design, then any piece of information would be most appreciated.