Say if I wanted to work in Japan, in a normal job, (not translation or anything requiring a near-native ability) what would be the best test to have on my gaijin CV?
Would it be the JLPT or something else?
And what would the best test be for a translator, just as a matter of curiosity?
Thinking ahead, y'know. Only at 400 in RTK :p

I only know of two exam authorized by the japanese government to measure one`s japanese language exam. Japanese Language Proficiency Test (JLPT) and Business Japanese Proficiency Test (BJT). Google it up and see the difference. But if you really want to work in Japan, you must be really good on what you do, unless you will work as translator or some kind of language job.

[Zgarbas]

Don't underestimate the work that goes into translation. Everybody else does =(.

Zgarbas Wrote:Don't underestimate the work that goes into translation. Everybody else does =(.

Call me an outlier then. I deeply appreciate those extending their time and effort into translating works from one language into another for others to enjoy. I don't think I would have been aware of just how much Japanese media I enjoy if it weren't for those tireless fan translations of various manga, light novels, visual novels, anime, etc.

One thing I am set on making sure of is when the time comes that I am able to be of some service in translation, especially for those products which sucked me into Japanese as a pleasure in the first place, is to try and allow people to access Japanese media where western publishers see no interest, regardless of the fans crying out for localization or at least unofficial language support.

JLPT is by far the most widely recognised, though obviously a good mark on the BJT would also look impressive.

I don't think either is that well known by Japanese employers other than those that regularly employ foreign staff.

It would be unusual for an employer to require one of those exams, but they might quote one in a job advert as a reference level e.g. candidates should have JLPT 1 or equivalent. The above doesn't mean they require you to have passed the exam, just that people who aren't around that level shouldn't bother applying.

What do you mean by a normal job? If you won't be using Japanese in your job then obviously the most important thing is your ability to do whatever it is your job is. Some companies may offer pay rises to people who pass the JLPT. These usually seem to be companies where the staff have been sent from their home countries without hardly knowing any Japanese to start with. The best way to get a 'normal' job is to get really good at something in your own country first and then look for work in Japan once you have experience.

If you want a job completely using Japanese then your Japanese will probably need to be on a similar level to that of a translator, though the skills which are important will be different.

I don't think there are really that many jobs (especially good jobs) in the middle ground. Either you need to speak Japanese fluently or you don't. I've seen people who have reached a reasonable intermediate level like JLPT 2 get frustrated because although they've put a lot of effort into learning Japanese, their skills aren't really that valuable in the job market at that level.

For translators (or perhaps more accurately for people trying to get their first translation job) having JLPT level 1 is of some use for showing that you have at least reached some minimum required standard. There are also various tests aimed specifically at translators and even specific areas of translation. However, it's not a regulated industry in terms of needing a particular qualification to be able to call yourself a translator, so for the most part ability and experience are much more important.

Forget Japanese and just work for Rakuten

http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2013/04/unify_yo...rough.html

mutley Wrote:There are also various tests aimed specifically at translators and even specific areas of translation.

Would you know if there are also some courses or curriculum for specialized translation? For example, medical or legal? Thank you!

Zgarbas Wrote:Don't underestimate the work that goes into translation. Everybody else does =(.

This.

I occasionally conduct translation tests so I can outsource some of my office's work, but everyone* is so awful that I've never found anyone other than former employees of my company.

*All were translators registered with a variety of translation outsource companies.

I also occasionally get reference material translated by my company's two major competitors, and it's all crap. They are only able to compete because they are cheaper and we are only able to handle a certain amount of work at once.

Poor English ability (even among natives) is usually a bigger issue than poor Japanese comprehension or subject comprehension.

If only I wasn't too lazy to find/maintain clients and if I still enjoyed doing translation I'd get into freelance again, since my company effectively bills about 20,000yen/hr w/overhead when I translate (which mercifully is not too much anymore).

Also, to reply to OP, JLPT is the only test worth anything on a resume. Most Japanese companies won't have even heard of that unless they frequently hire foreigners though. They will assume it is 日本語検定 which is meant for native speakers. Other tests are only useful as personal goals or if you feel that JLPT1 alone doesn't stand out enough on your resume.

uisukii Wrote:

Zgarbas Wrote:Don't underestimate the work that goes into translation. Everybody else does =(.

Call me an outlier then. I deeply appreciate those extending their time and effort into translating works from one language into another for others to enjoy. I don't think I would have been aware of just how much Japanese media I enjoy if it weren't for those tireless fan translations of various manga, light novels, visual novels, anime, etc.

I don't think he was referring to fan translators, who are unpaid and, from what I've seen, pretty unskilled. Can't complain too much though since the viewer pays nothing (pirate) and the translator is paid nothing I suppose.

sherlock Wrote:

mutley Wrote:There are also various tests aimed specifically at translators and even specific areas of translation.

Would you know if there are also some courses or curriculum for specialized translation? For example, medical or legal? Thank you!

Good medical or legal translators are generally doctors or lawyers who happen to be bilingual.

Lesser medical/legal translators still generally have training (such as a uni minor) in that field.

You need to be able to write the target language in a natural manner for the subject. Taking a specialized course on translation won't help you write something that can pass peer review (they are pretty hardcore about language usage, as I found when I helped proofread a Dr's paper) and get published in a medical journal if you don't already know the field.

When I get back a trial translation that has the meaning exactly correct but is not natural, I reject it sooner than I would a translation that is wrong but natural. The former needs a complete rewrite while the latter just needs spot fixes.

[Zgarbas]

Yeah, it was in reply to

Quote:But if you really want to work in Japan, you must be really good on what you do, unless you will work as translator or some kind of language job.

Being a translator is so much more than just having a decent language level. I think lots of people underestimate the amount of skill you need for translations so I'm pretty quick to point that out whenever I can .

mutley Wrote:What do you mean by a normal job?

Yeah... any job that doesn't require near native level ability isn't a normal job.

dizmox Wrote:

mutley Wrote:What do you mean by a normal job?

Yeah... any job that doesn't require near native level ability isn't a normal job.

Plenty of companies in Japan will accommodate people who can't speak Japanese well. You have to have the skills/experience in that field to make it worth accommodating you though. We've got a guy who speaks effectively no Japanese because of his automotive knowledge.

Programming/IT seems to be a good field that doesn't require language skill.

Headamon Wrote:I only know of two exam authorized by the japanese government to measure one`s japanese language exam. Japanese Language Proficiency Test (JLPT) and Business Japanese Proficiency Test (BJT). Google it up and see the difference. But if you really want to work in Japan, you must be really good on what you do, unless you will work as translator or some kind of language job.

You can take JLPT .. Only JLPT exams are honored here in our country, Phils.. We have offers here for mechanics related job in Japan and it only requires N3 to be able to be accepted there.. Meanwhile, TRANSLATORS, teachers, and nurses here are required to pass N2 for Japan work.. So as per your question, it's N3 for some jobs, and N2 for translation jobs.. I hope this helps!

Hirakana Wrote:Say if I wanted to work in Japan, in a normal job, (not translation or anything requiring a near-native ability) what would be the best test to have on my gaijin CV?

Foreigners frequently work in convenience stores, and that seems a pretty "normal" a job. Usually they're Chinese or Korean, but I've seen white guys working there too. I'd bet money that the convenience stores don't care what you're JLPT level is, so long as you can say いらっしゃいませ all day long and count change accurately.

The challenge with those types of blue-collar jobs is getting a work visa, since 7-11's not going to sponsor you to come to Japan and run their cash register.

JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:

Hirakana Wrote:Say if I wanted to work in Japan, in a normal job, (not translation or anything requiring a near-native ability) what would be the best test to have on my gaijin CV?

Foreigners frequently work in convenience stores, and that seems a pretty "normal" a job. Usually they're Chinese or Korean, but I've seen white guys working there too. I'd bet money that the convenience stores don't care what you're JLPT level is, so long as you can say いらっしゃいませ all day long and count change accurately.

The challenge with those types of blue-collar jobs is getting a work visa, since 7-11's not going to sponsor you to come to Japan and run their cash register.

Precisely speaking, those jobs that doesn't require that much speaking, reading, and listening particularly needs at least N3.. They don't require it, but at least able to know N3 level won't make you understand and talk at an average level...

None of the companies I have worked for or interviewed with have cared at all about language qualifacations. Unless you're going to be writing Japanese for a commercial use such as writing advertising copy, all that matters is whether or not you can communicate and even if you do need to write natively i doubt anyone will trust a JLPT certificate. To convince anyone of that you'll need to speak near natively which is a much higher level than N1.

nadiatims Wrote:None of the companies I have worked for or interviewed with have cared at all about language qualifacations. Unless you're going to be writing Japanese for a commercial use such as writing advertising copy, all that matters is whether or not you can communicate and even if you do need to write natively i doubt anyone will trust a JLPT certificate. To convince anyone of that you'll need to speak near natively which is a much higher level than N1.

How much Japanese do you know when you've first work in Japan? Thanks!

kitakitsune Wrote:Forget Japanese and just work for Rakuten

http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2013/04/unify_yo...rough.html

I'm not sure why one would want to forget Japanese then move to Japan, though.

It seems that JAXA ( Japanese space exploration agency) considers BJT score a valid proof of japanese knowledge to apply for their internship.

I went to our university's book store and they said that they dont have any BJT books, and that there are only like 3 books for BJT available for purchase online, and only 1 of them is not out of stock...

So studying for BJT seems like a hard thing for me.(in terms of resources and guidelines).

But then again if you take N1, and BJT too, then its an awesome combination.

I am nearing the lower N1 level and I picked up a BJT book in our library, and I can say that most of the stuff that is taught in BJT books is something that I have never seen.

BJT is hard, and studying for it is also hard. At least it seems so for me.