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Do I spot a little hidden agenda? The act of disliking classes makes your skill lower?

Gotta be objective, man.

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Lots of free time? You could gain an additional level by coming over and doing my dishes!

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Sorry, but really, you're not joking? I think you'll judge one's Japanese level better with more of the Japanese ability, and less of the subjective experiences of whether or not Japanese people want to try their English on you, your view on formal education, and who your girlfriends have been.

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Arupan Wrote:Saying that it doesn't matter is pretty naive.

I don't think they were being naive, I think they were being sarcastic...

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some more relevant questions (in no particular order):

Can you understand and follow television/radio playing in the next room while you're reading in english on your computer?

Do you find yourself eavesdropping on people's conversations in cafes, buses etc?

Can you understand country bumpkin japanese?

Could you shadow the above?

Could you do a reasonable job interpreting the above in real time?

Does the meaning of song lyrics stand out? or do you have to pay attention to it? or check the lyrics.

Can you pick up a novel and read it without a dictionary and without it feeling like it requires effort?

how about a newspaper, comics, technical material, editorials, forums, contracts...?

Could you translate the above accurately and in reasonable time?

can you speak freely about any topic without falling back on your native language?

When you speak on the phone, do people realize you're not japanese?

Do you sometimes forget that you can speak Japanese? and that that might be unusual.
Do you have to remind yourself that foreigners (family etc) don't understand japanese?

Arupan Wrote:Your formal education is a deciding factor of your ability... If you've learned something else as well in the mean time that's a different story but nobody really discourages you to do so. How many professionals have you seen without any kind of a diploma or a certificate?

that's because diplomas, certificates are very often legal requirements for professions (doctor, lawyer, architect etc) or are assumed by industry as the only reliable way to assess ability. It doesn't necessarily follow that you couldn't reach the same/better level through self study. It also doesn't follow necessarily that someone with a diploma/degree has reached the level that is necessary or useful. I believe certifications will become more reliable assessments of ability as certification is decoupled from education. ie. You study/learn at uni (or wherever) and then go to some other certifying institute to get your certificate.

So where's the empirical data behind this list? How many Japanese learners did you survey?

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Stian Wrote:So where's the empirical data behind this list? How many Japanese learners did you survey?

I don't think this is supposed to be taken seriously.

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Don't speak for everyone. I liked it.

EDIT: For more fun, let's make extra questions. What would be a question that gives you +10 points if you answer yes?

I just reacted because I really thought that you were flamebaiting or something, since it's just your opinion and you're not pushing it on anyone you don't have to remove anything then, imo.

It just can't be some kind of general guide for everyone on behalf of the forums if you're gonna have personal-view loaded claims like the idea of input leading to output negatively affecting your ability.

You know a language test sucks when a native Nobel laureate in Lit. would probably come in lower than the guy who wrote the test.

You should just get to the point and add "Is your username Arupan? : +1000" at the end. Everyone who would ever pick a username other than Arupan clearly sucks at Japanese. It's been objectively determined to be so.

Stansfield123 Wrote:You know a language test sucks when a native Nobel laureate in Lit. would probably come in lower than the guy who wrote the test.

You should just get to the point and add "Is your username Arupan? : +1000" at the end.

*laughs* Sounds like the basis of a lot of statistics driven tests I had to do way back in highschool. Testing to see how well people can take the test.

On a side note, I have my own system of "leveling" in the making, only it is really only for the individual that makes the system, works a little like a jrpg (only without the massive weapons), and is in entirely done a tongue in cheek thing to keep the motivation for arbitrary things in motion.

Then again, would such a system really be any different from the one presented here, I wonder?

@Stansfield123 Thank you, I had one of those deep lol's.

So, wait are you a nobel laureate? wtf

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"I can read a Japanese novel backwards looking in the mirror" +2

"I can handwrite a Japanese novel backwards so that it will look correct when read looking in the mirror blindfolded while solving a Rubik's cube by inputting the move coordinates in Japanese in a Japanese Rubik cube simulator" +10

"I can speak 20 different Japanese dialects and have already invented 3 of mine". +7

Also can I play an Elf?

[Zgarbas]

Having the N1 balances out hating classes? That's an odd standard you got there.

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