Hello. First of all, this truly is an amazing site, I was taken aback by how simple yet effective this page has proven to be. Props to ファブリス on this very nice job!

Now about my issues...

Ok, I'm fairly new to RTK, this site, and even Flashcards... Though I managed to learn 302 Kanji after about a month of studying about 2-3 hours a day, sometimes more, but I can''t really say I'm satisfied by this pace, since I've heard about a lot of people studying for the same amount of time and learning as many as 50 Kanji... So I decided to ask for advice here, I'm sure there are a number of things I'm doing wrong, but I'm not sure what...The main thing is that I take too long to come up with stories, and I don't seem to make them especially memorable, furthermore my motivation/focus seem to drop after a while, and I also tend to procrastinate, and my recall rate appears to hover around 72-87%. So, basically, I would like to ask for pointers, and/or advice on how to make the most of my time and learn Kanji more efficiently. Not sure if this is everything, or if it's even something advice can even help me with, but I figure I may as well try... Either way I feel really strongly about not giving up until the end. And I'm open to any changes that improve my performance.

Thanks in advance.

Silly question, but have you got the Remembering The Kanji book? I ask that because the book provides stories and hints for the first 500 frames or so, and thanks to that it tends to be quite quick to learn if you use it. Also because of that, there are not many stories shared here for those first 500 frames. After those, there are lots more shared stories here to help you through.

It seems like your main problem is with stories. Why don't you use the stories on the site or at least use them as a starting point for your own?

As for motivation, focus on why you wanted to learn Japanese in the first place.

First of all, congratulations for your first steps on the "Remembering the Kanji + SRS" road and welcome.

Now, I think I understand your feeling. At the beginning this was rather easy and entertaining for me, but as on the 3rd part of the book you are left with primitives alone and have to write your stories from scratches for almost any single kanji, it has become really difficult for me on this last days. Sometimes I can't come with a story for some kanjis even after being thinking of them all the day. So it calls my attention your having so much troubles on the first part of the book. If you don't solve it soon you may face a really difficult situation, so you wrote this post just on time.

Well, if you are looking for some ideas, let my think...
maybe writing down a list of the kanji and keywords you are going to work on the next day and carrying it with you may help you. I mean, it would be a bit easier to write a story for a kanji if that kanji has been sort of "introduced" to you beforehand, as that would give you more time to think of something useful.

Mmm... using people or characters to identify certain radicals or kanji is useful too. You can also use episodes from movies or books you like. For example, I use Legolas from LoTR for "warrior" 武, and a the famous cover from "Jaws" (the movie) but with a BIG saint bernard for "strange" 奇.

Also, pay attention to your mnemonics. You can use mnemonics based on verbal clues (words) or based on non-verbal clues (images). Sometimes one type works better on certain kanji (i.e. makes you to remember better that kanji). Sometimes it is easier to use one type with certain kanji (i.e. it is easier to create a story using that kind of clue). Unfortunately, not always both parameters agree on the same kanji.

If you get stucked on a kanji, give it a break and continue with the rest. The story may pop up in your mind at any moment.

And... that's it, sorry for my logorrhea. oRP

vosmiura Wrote:Silly question, but have you got the Remembering The Kanji book? I ask that because the book provides stories and hints for the first 500 frames or so, and thanks to that it tends to be quite quick to learn if you use it. Also because of that, there are not many stories shared here for those first 500 frames. After those, there are lots more shared stories here to help you through.

Yes, I have it, but a good deal of the stories don't seem to work very well with me... But it's good to know stories on this site will likely improve after I pass the 500 mark.

suffah Wrote:It seems like your main problem is with stories. Why don't you use the stories on the site or at least use them as a starting point for your own?

As for motivation, focus on why you wanted to learn Japanese in the first place.

I used some on the site, but for now at least, a few of the highest rated ones either conveyed a misguided meaning or failed to use all the right building blocks, so with a few exceptions, I kinda stopped using them...

And as for my lack of motivation, it isn't that I feel like giving up per se... it's that, after creating stories and going through 10 frames or so, I just start to feel tired when I think about creating the next story.

If you feel tired, stop working on kanji and do something that makes you feel better, like listening to music, watching television, stretching your legs...

If it is something related to Japanese (japanese music, anime, manga, podcasts, blogs, etc... ), that would be even better.

How are you doing with visualising the stories in your mind?

Can you give examples of some of your stories so we can maybe give some tips?

Fortunately for me I could make most of Heisig's stories stick by visualising them well, and they are some of the most solid kanji I have now. I didn't use shared stories here until after 500+ but after that I use very many. Especially from around frame 900 to 2042 I probably used 8 or 9 out of 10 shared by someone else. But it wasn't always the top rated story though.

What I did is find a story that seemed memorable, then spend 1 to 2 minutes thinking about the story in my mind, trying to sometimes go through it from more than one angle. Then I reviewed using Anki... usually doing the first review the day after first learning a kanji, and if I remembered correctly then ~4 days then ~8 etc. Whenever I failed a review I went back to the story, and tried to revise it or just visualize it more.

First of all. Thanks for the tips and comments, everyone.

And now, to respond to your comments and questions...

Transtic Wrote:First of all, congratulations for your first steps on the "Remembering the Kanji + SRS" road and welcome.

Now, I think I understand your feeling. At the beginning this was rather easy and entertaining for me, but as on the 3rd part of the book you are left with primitives alone and have to write your stories from scratches for almost any single kanji, it has become really difficult for me on this last days. Sometimes I can't come with a story for some kanjis even after being thinking of them all the day. So it calls my attention your having so much troubles on the first part of the book. If you don't solve it soon you may face a really difficult situation, so you wrote this post just on time.

Well, if you are looking for some ideas, let my think...
maybe writing down a list of the kanji and keywords you are going to work on the next day and carrying it with you may help you. I mean, it would be a bit easier to write a story for a kanji if that kanji has been sort of "introduced" to you beforehand, as that would give you more time to think of something useful.

Mmm... using people or characters to identify certain radicals or kanji is useful too. You can also use episodes from movies or books you like. For example, I use Legolas from LoTR for "warrior" 武, and a the famous cover from "Jaws" (the movie) but with a BIG saint bernard for "strange" 奇.

Also, pay attention to your mnemonics. You can use mnemonics based on verbal clues (words) or based on non-verbal clues (images). Sometimes one type works better on certain kanji (i.e. makes you to remember better that kanji). Sometimes it is easier to use one type with certain kanji (i.e. it is easier to create a story using that kind of clue). Unfortunately, not always both parameters agree on the same kanji.

If you get stucked on a kanji, give it a break and continue with the rest. The story may pop up in your mind at any moment.

And... that's it, sorry for my logorrhea. oRP

Thanks. For quite a while I have been doing stories that weren't particularly about things that I see/read about... And it really does seem like a good idea to think outside the box in order to make stories more unique and memorable. But on another note, I don't think I've really gotten stuck on any particular Kanji, but I feel like it would be frustrating to simply move past a Kanji that proved to be difficult. I just hope this sort of thing doesn't happen often.

vosmiura Wrote:How are you doing with visualising the stories in your mind?

Can you give examples of some of your stories so we can maybe give some tips?

Fortunately for me I could make most of Heisig's stories stick by visualising them well, and they are some of the most solid kanji I have now. I didn't use shared stories here until after 500+ but after that I use very many. Especially from around frame 900 to 2042 I probably used 8 or 9 out of 10 shared by someone else. But it wasn't always the top rated story though.

What I did is find a story that seemed memorable, then spend 1 to 2 minutes thinking about the story in my mind, trying to sometimes go through it from more than one angle. Then I reviewed using Anki... usually doing the first review the day after first learning a kanji, and if I remembered correctly then ~4 days then ~8 etc. Whenever I failed a review I went back to the story, and tried to revise it or just visualize it more.

Hmmm... let's see, how about this story for the Overnight Kanji 泊: "Water and White sheets are important when staying Overnight. Overnight."

I used several styles when making stories, but the ones that worked best for me so far, were stories whose main keyword elements appeared on the same order as stroke order, and then, ending with the keyword itself being said twice, usually near the end. Though following those rules also made it very difficult to create stories, depending on the Kanji and its elements.

And as for after writing the story on the site... I usually told myself the story, and stopping each time I reached the point where parts of the kanji were told, and then as I finished writing the strokes for that part I would continue the story and repeat the process until the Kanji was finished. But for about 80% of the Kanji, I forgot to actually visualize my stories, though I have started doing that now.

Well... Thanks to everyone's comments, as well as few things I read here and on other sites, I have quite a few new ideas to make this process more fun. For instance: after mastering each Kanji, write them somewhere with as good writing as possible, and check them again after the study session, when I usually add them to this site. Or, make logs in order to track process and score rates, so I can know when I do better and try to mimic the manner in which I created stories or approach and pace used on that particular day.

Anyway, I feel more inspired now. Thanks for the support everyone, and sorry for the incredibly long post. Hopefully, I will be able to add more fun to this journey towards literacy, and one day have fond memories about the days I spent trying make my way through the Kanji world, when I didn't even know the Kanji for "World", which I do now .

Elusive_Persecutor Wrote:I used several styles when making stories, but the ones that worked best for me so far, were stories whose main keyword elements appeared on the same order as stroke order, and then, ending with the keyword itself being said twice, usually near the end. Though following those rules also made it very difficult to create stories, depending on the Kanji and its elements.

And as for after writing the story on the site... I usually told myself the story, and stopping each time I reached the point where parts of the kanji were told, and then as I finished writing the strokes for that part I would continue the story and repeat the process until the Kanji was finished. But for about 80% of the Kanji, I forgot to actually visualize my stories, though I have started doing that now.

Sounds like you're missing the main point of the method, which is to use the power of your visual memory!* The ordering of the words shouldn't matter; you're not memorizing a sentence, you're seeing an event play out in your mind's eye. I don't think your way of pausing your story and writing each primitive is good either. Focus on visualizing the story. I suggest you reread the intro of the book. Best of luck.

Edit: *Of course incorporating other senses like smell, touch, sound, taste helps.

Hey Elusive_Persecutor

I have struggled myself to have a pace that I consider fast enough. I started RTK ages ago but am only now starting to feel comfortable with it. I can now comfortably learn around 40 new kanji in about 2 and a half hours wheras before that would take me twice as long and as such I felt demotivated and less interested in study. I have writyen myself out a schedule which I hopr to stick to so that I will finish learning my 2042nd Kanji on February 3rd. I am still only about one third my way through the book.

Basically to increase my pace I have made a 3 minute MP3 that has nothing on it apart from a beep at 150 seconds and a few beeps just before reaching 3 minutes. I let this track repeat over and over contiuously. For the first 150 seconds i learn the janji visualising the favoroutie story from this site then for the remaining 30 seconds I write the kanji once or twice. I try to stick to this pace. I only break this if I find I really dont like a particular storie and have to invent one myelf - then maybe I will give myself a maximum on 6 minutes. But this is rare

So far I have found this has massively increased my pace and motivation without harming my recall rate. If you want I can email you the mp3 so you try and see if it helps.

Good luck

Sam

'simple', I think you're on the right path. I used a similar idea, although rather than using a timer I just got used to being able to tell when to move on to the next frame. Most of the time I averaged about 2 minutes including searching for a story and then focusing on it, and I usually wrote the kanji with my finger in my palm a few times while doing this.

Writing my own stories was fun, but it was also the most time consuming part of learning, so I limited that to when it was really needed or when a good idea jumped at me... because I got used to finding good shared stories.

Radical_tyro, You are correct, for a lot of the stories I just forgot to actually fully visualize it on my mind, from now on, I'm going to focus more into doing that. And as for the story order, I'm not sure if I can let of of it just yet, but I'll try to make more experiments with them, it's just that... When I try to recall, and I did the stories on my usual order... the moment I recall/visualize the start of the story, everything and the story itself are remembered instantly. And that pause when writing usually doesn't take longer than a couple of seconds and is usually only done when I first write it, and not when I recall later on.Though I guess I would get better results faster and more reliably if I put more effort into visualizing rather than worrying about the order....

Simple, That's a really good idea actually. Keeping track of time during studying sessions is something I'm really bad at, so it would definitely help... If it's really OK, please send it to this mail:
enigmaster01@gmail.com
Thanks! And good luck learning all the 2042 Kanji by February, I hope you can do it!

Hi...

I have sent you an email