I went to the website and took a look at "How to Use This Website"

"You know how like when you get a new cellphone or a new smartphone or a new iPhone, right?
…Or even new laptop or a new PC or a new computer…
Or a new iPod or a new MP3 player or a new media device… 3

You don’t look at the manual, do you?"

The first thing I do is reading the manual front to back (am I the only one who does this?).
and when it comes to jumbled mess of a manual, AJATT takes the cake.

Just wanted to share.

Can somebody quickly tell me the benefits of using AJATT?
Thanks for reading.

I don't read manuals.

More seriously, read the website. Start on page 14 (the first page, I think).
He'll tell you to
a) learn 10,000 sentences,
b) listen to 10,000 hours of Japanese
and c) read 1,000,000 words.

a) is not enough
b) is too much IMO, 3,000 hours is enough for 95% comprehension
c) ... 1,000,000 words is NOTHING.

I learned about 5,000 words in English, listened to ~1,100 hours of audio--I recorded my progress, but I probably listened to 2,500-3,000 hours total because I only recorded my listening hours over a few months--and I read at least 10 million words given the time I spend surfing the internet in English.

the advantage with English is that roman letters are a lot easier to read and look-up compared to memorizing kanji readings. Which is exactly why most of my time right now is going into Anki-ing them. (while listening to Japanese on TV in another monitor)

Question "What is the reason why lhong1987 can't get himself/herself to use AJATT?"
Answer: Because lhong1987 is too lazy to RTFM.

My other answer might be "I can't tell what AJATT is. You have to experience it for yourself".

Seriously, if you're too lazy to read the AJATT articles, don't even bother.

chamcham Wrote:RTFM

Ajatt is a terrible guide and Japanese level up explains it far better my guess is he ensures the ajatt website explains it badly so people pay for his products.

yup... learning Japanese is a huge time-sink... if you aren't ready to commit, don't bother. Too many of my classmates thought they could learn Japanese to fluency with VERY minimal effort. Sure they got their degrees, but they can't speak a word..

lhong1987 Wrote:I went to the website and took a look at "How to Use This Website"

"You know how like when you get a new cellphone or a new smartphone or a new iPhone, right?
…Or even new laptop or a new PC or a new computer…
Or a new iPod or a new MP3 player or a new media device… 3

You don’t look at the manual, do you?"

The first thing I do is reading the manual front to back (am I the only one who does this?).
and when it comes to jumbled mess of a manual, AJATT takes the cake.

Just wanted to share.

Can somebody quickly tell me the benefits of using AJATT?
Thanks for reading.

I've read AJJAT a couple of times and basically it talks about learning through INPUT. His "inspiration" comes from antimoon.com and Stephen Krashen, that also talk about INPUT.

So, reading AJJAT you will find out that you should:
1)Study Heisig's book 1 and 3
2)Listen to 10,000 hours of japanese
3)And pick up 10,000 sentences and add them into ANKI.

Considering these three points, all his other posts are around them. How to, basically, keep yourself motivated, how to mine sentence, what to listen, and so on. It may have other stuff but I'd say this is its most important part.

So the benefits of using it? If you don't want, like, have time to search for good resources to learn japanese, then you could just read/listen to his tips and follow them.

There may be other things there but that's what I thing is its main idea.

subkulture Wrote:

chamcham Wrote:RTFM

Ajatt is a terrible guide and Japanese level up explains it far better my guess is he ensures the ajatt website explains it badly so people pay for his products.

Most of those AJATT articles in the "How to Use This Website" section were written well before he started charging any money for anything. Just read the other AJATT threads on this website. They go way back.

lhong1987 Wrote:Can somebody quickly tell me the benefits of using AJATT?

AJaTT is a blog. A blog isn't something you use, it's something you read. Asking for a manual is like asking for a manual to use a newspaper.

The benefit of reading AJATT, compared to what you're currently doing, is twofold:
1. It's about learning Japanese.
2. It's a fun read.

(In case you're confused about what you're currently doing, you're reading this thread - this thread is neither fun - in fact it has a distinctly unpleasant feel to it-, nor about learning Japanese. You're wasting your time. Stop, and go read AJATT. Unless of course you have something even better to do, in which case go do that.)

Rsun1 Wrote:So, reading AJJAT you will find out that you should:
1)Study Heisig's book 1 and 3
2)Listen to 10,000 hours of japanese
3)And pick up 10,000 sentences and add them into ANKI.

Considering these three points, all his other posts are around them.

This isn't true. But of course OP probably already knows this. Unless he's still reading this thread of course, in which case I really don't care about what OP thinks.

Hashiriya Wrote:yup... learning Japanese is a huge time-sink... if you aren't ready to commit, don't bother. Too many of my classmates thought they could learn Japanese to fluency with VERY minimal effort. Sure they got their degrees, but they can't speak a word..

What did they get their degrees in? Please don't say Japanese, please don't say Japanese.

I would love to read AJATT but the dude is an absolutely terrible writer.

(Yay first post)

have you tried using the overview?

http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blo...rview-page

i found this on the table of contents.

i also don't read manuals until i find that i need to do something and the interface for whatever device i'm using is not intuitive enough.

There's some useful information in AJATT.
I don't think it's worth the time to read through all the articles, though. I unfortunately enjoy reading his articles. It is a fun read, but overly complex.

1)Immerse yourself. Have fun.
2)Own a lot of Japanese media.
3)Make Japanese a part of your life/identity.
4)Make "studying" or "immersing" in Japanese a habit.
5)Use an SRS to supplement your Japanese study
6)RTK
7)Mine using [massive] cloze deletion


Copied from AJATT+
"MCD basics"
1.)If you’re a beginner, start with basic bilingual clozed cards— with Japanese cloze texts and an English translation on the front.
2.)Then proceed to having the English translations on the back (using more context)…
3.)Then proceed to DDCs (dictionary definition cards) — MCDs of monolingual dictionary entries, with Japanese and English on the back…

Although it's not shown in the table of contents, Khatzumoto now emphasizes cloze deletion over mining sentences.

My only goal is comprehension, so for me cloze deletion is unnecessary. However, clozed deletion is the easiest way to simulate production without error.

Know what your goal is, do what it takes to reach that goal, and make it a habit.

Same goal here with the comprehension. But I find mcd useful for comprehension too. There have been cards in my deck that I've never really read even though I technically reviewed it dozens of times so by making an mcd of the word and blanking out syllables or a syllable I actually notice/ read the whole word. I think doing mcd for English Japanese cards is pointless though... Your better off learning grammar or immersing

You forgot part of the quote:

Quote:You don’t look at the manual, do you?

No. You don’t. Sane people don’t look at the manual.

Anyway, there was a bit more if you read any further.

Quote:1) Bookmark this site
2) Click around. Read an article or two
***Table of Contents
***Chronological Archive
***The Best of AJATT
***Who The Heck Is This Khatzumoto Guy And Why The Fox Should I Care?
***Latest@Blog
3) Find something useful — 1 thing will do
4) Go away and act on it (the useful tool or idea you found in step # 3)
5) Come back
6) Return to step (2)

Anyway, I think part of AJATT is exploration and finding out what works for you in your own language learning path. As there is no one size fits all solution.

You also posted not too long ago about wanting to giving up using RTK. Don't spend too much time debating on how best to learn a language. All this time spending figuring out the best method can be put into actually doing something about it.

If you don't like how AJATT is written, you can go elsewhere for the language learning information and philosophy: Antimoon, JLevelUp, Fluent in 3 months, the list goes on.

Maybe you'd like Japanese Level Up better. It's similar to AJATT, but (in my opinion) the writing is much better (ie; not obnoxious), it's more concise, and his advice is generally better. He also doesn't make huge promises like, "you will be fluent in 18 months".
There's no harm in taking some time to browse around and find a method that works for you. If AJATT doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. Nothing wrong with that.

quark Wrote:Maybe you'd like Japanese Level Up better. It's similar to AJATT, but (in my opinion) the writing is much better (ie; not obnoxious), it's more concise, and his advice is generally better. He also doesn't make huge promises like, "you will be fluent in 18 months".
There's no harm in taking some time to browse around and find a method that works for you. If AJATT doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. Nothing wrong with that.

Don't forget that Khatz (author of AJATT) went from no Japanese to fluent in 18 months. Fluent enough to be hired as a software engineer at a large Japanese company in Tokyo. And during that period, he had a girlfriend and was in college working towards his computer science degree.

Here is Khatz's life story:
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/about

AJATT FAQ:
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blo...questions/

Here was his daily schedule during his "hardcore phase" in 2004-2006 where he learned everything that eventually became AJATT:
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blo...o-for-real

@howtosavealif3 Good point.

@lhong1987
I agree with Daichi. Browse around through different blogs and forums and make your own manual.

chamcham Wrote:

quark Wrote:Maybe you'd like Japanese Level Up better. It's similar to AJATT, but (in my opinion) the writing is much better (ie; not obnoxious), it's more concise, and his advice is generally better. He also doesn't make huge promises like, "you will be fluent in 18 months".
There's no harm in taking some time to browse around and find a method that works for you. If AJATT doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. Nothing wrong with that.

Don't forget that Khatz (author of AJATT) went from no Japanese to fluent in 18 months. Fluent enough to be hired as a software engineer at a large Japanese company in Tokyo. And during that period, he had a girlfriend and was in college working towards his computer science degree.

Here is Khatz's life story:
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/about

AJATT FAQ:
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blo...questions/

Here was his daily schedule during his "hardcore phase" in 2004-2006 where he learned everything that eventually became AJATT:
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blo...o-for-real

I'm well aware of all this, and I'm not disputing that Khatz managed to progress to a very high level in a very short amount of time. However, for most new language learners, becoming fluent in 18 months isn't very realistic. They're going to end up burning out or getting discouraged because they're learning at a slower pace, and that's kind of crappy. The promise of fluency in 18 months just feels...dishonest.
New learners should be encouraged instead to focus on working at a steady pace and setting small, achievable goals.

David_jp_23 Wrote:I would love to read AJATT but the dude is a an absolutely terrible writer.

(Yay first post)

Since you made your first post, I'll make this my 2000th! I believe I've posted on this forum about 200 times more than I've post on any other forum. It also is probably my third most used website after Facebook and Youtube. Life is strange.

Anyway, in the true spirit of this forum, I'll use it to comment on AJATT. I agree, he's a horrible writer. It's interesting to know that other people really like his writing though.

It's one of those things that makes you realize how much people have different tastes. I remember in high school I had a friend who was very familiar with the music of Hendrix and Van Halen, and liked Van Halen the better of the two. I still can't believe that--Hendrix seems so much better that it is practically an objective judgement to choose him as the better of the two.

Maybe search for some recommended articles, otherwise I've tried once to read it and didn't bother to continue because there's huge walls of texts that can be written in a much condense way (see what you've just quoted?).
I recommend reading some of this forum's threads instead, for example:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=4943
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=476
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=1102
And some discussion topics (like the older ones on studying grammar or acquiring vocabulary).

I'll use my example for when games used to come with manuals.

I'd open the game and play it, and when I had to use the bathroom the manual would be my reading material. The end.

chamcham Wrote:Don't forget that Khatz (author of AJATT) went from no Japanese to fluent in 18 months. Fluent enough to be hired as a software engineer at a large Japanese company in Tokyo. And during that period, he had a girlfriend and was in college working towards his computer science degree.

Here is Khatz's life story:
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/about

AJATT FAQ:
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blo...questions/

Here was his daily schedule during his "hardcore phase" in 2004-2006 where he learned everything that eventually became AJATT:
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blo...o-for-real

This is just from personal observations from working at a large Japanese Internet company... But getting hired as a software engineer in Japan is not the best indicator of Japanese fluency.

I don't really understand the kind of holy wars that go on here over AJATT. Just like with everything, there are some okay ideas and some terrible ones. You have to figure out what you think will work for you.

If AJATT isn't flipping your cookie then just do the parts of it that you think will work. I don't think doing "massive cloze deletion" is really much of an improvement over the recognition bootstrapping he was recommending before. I wasn't really down with the whole AJATT thing when I was starting out, but I did incorporate certain concepts from it in my studying.

There's no reason to think of it as all or nothing. Just start studying, and every 3-4 months take an inventory to figure out what's working and what isn't. Change the stuff that isn't working, and keep the stuff that is. You'll figure it out.