PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:tldr Version: I'm going to blitz through RTK focusing more on primitives and stroke order than grinding over stories...

To be honest, position and order of primitives and their stroke orders more or less comes naturally. There's various heuristics, so even when you find some new, unknown kanji in the wild you'll be able to guess the stroke order without much of a problem. Carefully crafted stories can help you learn these heuristics during your first few hundred kanji and then occassionally as new primitives are encountered.

PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:I am heavily considering giving up on my Core vocab decks for the moment in favor of spending most of my study time with RTK and listening to news/music/TV.

Stop adding but still review, if you decide to do this.

PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:I see there is an option to add a 2nd Keyword to every card. Is it beneficial to add that as an actual vocab word in Japanese that uses that Kanji? That way I won't be totally neglecting vocab work or is this too convoluted to be practical?

Not worth your time. Remember, the goal is *not* to associate the kanji with it's meaning and vice-versa, the goal is merely to have a keyword that conjures a story that conjures the components of the kanji. I did this for a handful, but only if the kanji happens to be a word with a super common reading+meaning that is indistingusihable from the keyword and you already know that word well (eg. 妹).

PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:I could still review my RTK in Anki along with this site and it won't effect me negatively right?

Up for debate; long term memory strength is largely influenced by time since last recall thus extra reviews actually do harm for that factor, but more recalls might mitigate this. It's not up for debate, however, that extra reviews are a complete waste of time and you should learn to stop worrying and trust the SRS (and understand the premise of a forgetting index and how it's to your advantage to leverage it).

Stansfield123 Wrote:A couple of points, besides the ones made already:

1. There's an Anki 2 add-on that apparently allows you to import your cards from this site, without losing the review schedule. But that's all I know about it, haven't tried it myself. I never used this site for reviews either, so I have no idea how it works. Just check the list of add-ons.

2. You can minimize the damage to your sentence deck, by doing a few things like stop adding right away, reviewing ahead before you start the Kanji deck, and then of course catching up at the end. And, if you think it's necessary, just set a few days aside in the middle, you just review current Kanji and spend the rest of the day catching up with your sentence deck. I didn't realize you were in the middle of a sentence deck when I said "absolutely no other Kanji". I would never advise someone to just let a deck they've been working on for months pile up with thousands of reviews. Don't do that.

3. Unless you're going through the Kanji and find yourself waaay ahead of the pace that would allow you to finish in six weeks (in your case, more like a month, since you already know some of them), you shouldn't complicate your life with Pimsleur. The cost/benefit ratio is just too high, compared to anything else you could be doing, including immersion. Immersion is critical to learning a language. Pimsleur is not.

As for reviewing my kanji with the site, I still haven't done any reviews just yet, I'm pretty much adding stories right now and about halfway done. I'm actually on Frame 460 right now in the book. Doing 26 a day isn't too bad if I do 13 in the morning and 13 at lunch at work. That gives me enough time to work on my art and games without it killing my free time, so far anyway. I could be done in under 84 days.

Regauarding point # 2, I haven't touched my decks in about, well, since I started this thread. Having a day off adding kanji and just using it to review all my sentences and kanji at the same time is actually possible for me and I feel stupid for not considering that myself. Derp.

Point 3. My main concern was using something like Pimslur to learn to THINK in Japanese, but maybe this will be easier once I get to a level where I can clearly get to hear every word I hear and understand them? I mean now if I really listen to something I can make out the individual words, but unless it's in a structure that's familiar to me, it's hard to get what they are saying you know? I've been on and off Japanese for about 6 years now, and kicking myself for not stream-lining this process back when I thought I could do every single method/program out there at the same time. All I can do now far as speaking goes is describe things, count, and ask for things along with basic set phrases. At half the speed I could in English.

Thanks everyone for your advice and viewpoints. Really appreciate it.

I don't agree with continuing to review if the vocab deck contains kanji, I think it'll create extra confusion. If you aren't trying to 'blitz' and were going to take six months to slowly work through RTK, then keep reviewing your vocab sure. But if your goal is to complete RTK in the least time possible, I think that exposing yourself to normal kanji use disrupts the mnemonic process because you are thinking of more than one meaning (one keyword) for the kanji.

Also you should have only one keyword for any given kanji. If you know enough Japanese already to make that a Japanese keyword, then go for it (in preference to English keywords!), but don't make it -both- an English and a Japanese keyword. Multiple keywords is only going to muddle you up and slow you down.

Is there some sort of Core Deck that uses kana only then? I don't fancy going back to Iknow now that it's a pay to use service.<_<

I don't think there is. If you plan to complete RTK-1 in six weeks or less, I think you'll be fine postponing your reviews though. Your success rate will drop at first, but not below 50%, maybe not below 70%. As long as you aren't intimidated by the count it'll work out. The biggest problem with taking a month's vacation from reviews is when people scare themselves with a 1000+ count instead of just whittling it down every day.

I don't know if there is an Anki plugin like this, but I've used JavaScript to show RTK keywords on hover:

There's an Anki 2 add-on that lists all the Kanji in the note, at the bottom of the answer, and shows their Heisig keyword on hover. It's called Kanji_info.

PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:Is there some sort of Core Deck that uses kana only then? I don't fancy going back to Iknow now that it's a pay to use service.<_<

I'm guessing the one you're using now does too. It has a "Reading" field, doesn't it? You just need to set that as the question. It's very easy (takes 10 seconds) to change the template, and it won't affect reviews at all.

I had reached Frame 567 the other day and spent all day today reviewing and adding stories. Actually a good 4 or so hours catching up on site reviews.

I had about 200 or so in my failed pile(from when I stopped years ago and after clearing out all Frames I did on my last run) and I would go through the stories, 50 at a time, send them into my learned pile and review them straight out of there in batches of 50, writing them out, getting 80-90% retention. I know this is only good for short term memory, but I just wanted to get them out of the way. I didn't actually do any new kanji today and to be honest, I don't feel like doing it. Will reviewing like this now and then be a problem for my long term memory? Should I have waited a day to do them all again, and spent the time adding the 26 new cards?

I'm also trying to think of what to do to up immersion while doing this. Aside from watching one or two eps of anime a week, watching Tokyo MX almost every night and playing Pokemon Leaf Green, can't really think of much else I wanna do. I don't really know what the "in" things are in Japan. If possible I'd like to watch animal documentaries and stuff related to gaming.

The stories are extremely important when using the RTK method. If you don't like the story in the book go to the kanjis page on koohi scroll through all the stories and find the one best for you. If you can't make one up that will stick. And like the introduction in RTK says use your imagination to remember the kanji (let your brain do the work). The story should be the focus when learning kanji use a story that brings all the primitives together be creative use your life experiences make up shocking stories if you have to. And also don't look at the "I finished RTK in 15 days" thing and x copy that go at your own pace and it's not going to be easy you have to work hard if your lazy don't complain work harder no ones going to learn these kanji for you.

Psyclone Wrote:The stories are extremely important when using the RTK method. If you don't like the story in the book go to the kanjis page on koohi scroll through all the stories and find the one best for you. If you can't make one up that will stick. And like the introduction in RTK says use your imagination to remember the kanji (let your brain do the work). The story should be the focus when learning kanji use a story that brings all the primitives together be creative use your life experiences make up shocking stories if you have to. And also don't look at the "I finished RTK in 15 days" thing and x copy that go at your own pace and it's not going to be easy you have to work hard if your lazy don't complain work harder no ones going to learn these kanji for you.

Did you read the topic? I pretty much decided to go slower and I'm certainly not complaining.<____<

On Frame 620(Lesson 21) right now. Some of the recent radicals I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around. Wasn't there some sort of post with alterative radical keywords? Like turning "street" into ""Mr. T"?

I also changed a couple of keywords, but haven't seen a post about it. Don't change street into Mr. T! You'll meet him at around ~900 representing "Person".

PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:On Frame 620(Lesson 21) right now. Some of the recent radicals I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around. Wasn't there some sort of post with alterative radical keywords? Like turning "street" into ""Mr. T"?

Specifically, which radicals do you have a hard time wrapping your head around?

Street is easy.
Just think of a street sign that tells the name of the street.



The horizontal line is the part with the street name.
The vertical line is the pole.
The hook at the bottom of the vertical stroke is to stabilize the sign and make it stand still.

chamcham Wrote:Street is easy.
Just think of a street sign that tells the name of the street

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/image...chiU_LJ_2w

The horizontal line is the part with the street name.
The vertical line is the pole.
The hook at the bottom of the vertical stroke is to stabilize the sign and make it stand still.

Excellent! I was thinking about the idea of accumulating a pile of visuals to help with learning kanji, or reinforcing some of the stories. I wouldn't be surprised if this idea was discussed as some point on the RTK site in the past. It would be great if we had the option of adding in visuals to our stories to share with everyone. I guess copyright issues would be one concern. It would certainly take some time on the part of the contributors, but I think many of us wouldn't mind spending a little time to help out.

If I remember correctly there is already one such topic. Not sure if its from beginning to end, but it had the first couple kanji covered.

I didn't mean I was having problems with the T radical.....just listing as an example on radical changes by users.-___o'
Thanks for the help on that anyway.

The radicals I have trouble on are "Pegasus", "double back", "turkey" at first anyway, and "piggy bank".

I'm getting 79-85% correct on most reviews, on average I suppose. Should I keep adding new kanji or focus on reviewing until I get a higher retention rate?

PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:I didn't mean I was having problems with the T radical.....just listing as an example on radical changes by users.-___o'
Thanks for the help on that anyway.

The radicals I have trouble on are "Pegasus", "double back", "turkey" at first anyway, and "piggy bank".

I'm getting 79-85% correct on most reviews, on average I suppose. Should I keep adding new kanji or focus on reviewing until I get a higher retention rate?

80% is good enough. You can add more kanji.
If it dips below 70%, I'd spend more time reviewing.

[Katsuo]

PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:On Frame 620(Lesson 21) right now. Some of the recent radicals I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around. Wasn't there some sort of post with alterative radical keywords? Like turning "street" into ""Mr. T"?

Here's an old thread: So what alternative primitives did you use?

Thanks guys.

I could have sworn it was a different thread though. At anyrate I'm on the dreaded "heart" section of the book and the RTK method is totally failing me at this point like it seems to for most people. Brute force my way through I guess. Kanji 693.

Don't worry. It'll stick after a time. I also had a tough time with some stories containing heart.

PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:Thanks guys.

I could have sworn it was a different thread though. At anyrate I'm on the dreaded "heart" section of the book and the RTK method is totally failing me at this point like it seems to for most people. Brute force my way through I guess. Kanji 693.

Are you really having that much trouble with it? I liked the forms of the heart primitive, and found them unique enough to remember without too much trouble.

Yeah, I actually seem to be having a hell of a time with these heart primitives and connecting them to the other new kanji regaurding ideas and emotions. I've gotten to Frame 713 and just not remembering most of them. All my reviews these past few days have been 50/50 and most of my failed cards come from recently added cards.

=/

PkmnTrainerAbram Wrote:I didn't mean I was having problems with the T radical.....just listing as an example on radical changes by users.-___o'
Thanks for the help on that anyway.

The radicals I have trouble on are "Pegasus", "double back", "turkey" at first anyway, and "piggy bank".

I'm getting 79-85% correct on most reviews, on average I suppose. Should I keep adding new kanji or focus on reviewing until I get a higher retention rate?

Well, focus on the reviews a little more (spend a little more time on re-reading the story and visualizing it, when you fail a Kanji), but if you still have time left when the reviews are done, definitely keep adding. Keep in mind that once you're finished adding the 2042 Kanji, it gets exponentially easier to review the deck. So keep your eyes on the finish line, and don't stop advancing towards it. Finishing the 2042 Kanji is by far the most important goal here. Even if you get a little sloppy now for the sake of reaching the goal, you can easily make up for it once you're finished adding. For me, reaching that 2042 was by far the most important goal post. Haven't looked back since.

Also, if a particular Kanji is giving you way too much trouble (especially if you keep confusing it with something else), don't let it. Just suspend it, and just keep the other one. As long as you're not doing it too often, it's fine. If I were to guess, I'd say I have about 30 to 40 suspended Kanji at this point. It hasn't affected me in the least. I actually suspended several of the kanji referencing the self and "he/she", because I was getting them confused. Never had any trouble because of it, they're so common that it doesn't matter.

You can also suspend the Pegasus ones ("outlook" is common, but it's easy to recognize without Heisig - has "see" as a primitive, and its meaning is related to seeing - so there's no need for special attention). Keep the "double back" ones, you're gonna need them as primitives, and they show up in nouns a lot. With "piggy bank", some are common some are rare, but take a gamble and suspend one or two of the tougher ones anyway. "Turkey" is a very common primitive, it will show up later a lot, in some very common Kanji that you need to study carefully. So learn the proper stroke order for it, and practice writing it until you're good at it, then tough it out and give special attention to all the turkey characters, and the several further primitives that also have turkey in them.