Continuing the discussion that started in other post:

partner55083777 Wrote:

Rayath Wrote:

dizmox Wrote:I try to keep my food bill to less than 500 yen or so for the whole day for the days I don't eat out so I guess I have a severe view on what is good value for money though.

Wow, that's low. What are some examples of your daily meals if I may ask?

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I'm trying to limit the amount of money I spend on food, but I'm having trouble keeping it under 1000 yen a day, and that's even if I cook all my food.

I do have some things going against me, though. I have a relatively high metabolism, I don't eat snacks, I try to cook healthy (so no cup ramen), I exercise about 3 or 4 times a week, and I don't have any cheap grocery stores around me (I live relatively close to the city).

Any tips for eating healthy cheaply?

For me personally,

Instants like cup ramen, and also nikuman or frosted food are not really a choice because they have lots of sodium, which is bad for your blood pressure, and can cause heart problems in future.

Bentos from suupaa are half-priced in the evenings, but 1) they probably have a lot of 添加物 in them and 2) it's good to eat some big meal before the evening.

So I would really appreciate some tips for meals for the whole day.

Rayath Wrote:

dizmox Wrote:I try to keep my food bill to less than 500 yen or so for the whole day for the days I don't eat out so I guess I have a severe view on what is good value for money though.

Wow, that's low. What are some examples of your daily meals if I may ask?

Hmm.. generally yakisoba, ramen, red braised pork when pork belly is selling cheaply, nabe, stew, curry (Indian and Japanese), pasta, yakiniku, oyakodon, gyuudon, nikujaga, chaahan, takoyaki, miso saba, cooked smoked fish from the supermarket, etc. + rice/miso soup for lunches/dinners, plus some snacks/fruit/dessert. Usually just have cheese/jam toast for breakfast.

I know some families survive on half that per person

Disorganized random stuff:

Getting good at Japanese cooking is a plus, since a lot of the Japanese foods are cheaper to cook.

It's winter so it's a good time to eat nabe, which is super cheap!

A lot of it is getting to know which foods are cheap. You want to have some fruit in the house? Might wanna go with bananas or mikan, since you can get a good volume for cheap--especially bananas. Apples and strawberries aren't happening anytime soon.

Another thing is to explore where you can get things for cheap to have more food options. I thought making something like chilli would be ridiculously expensive (since beans are so expensive in Japanese grocery stores), but then I found out that some liquor stores (Yamaya, etc) have cans of beans, diced tomatoes, etc, for less than 100 yen per large can.

Rice seems expensive compared to most other countries, but actually for calories to cost it's a good way to fill up.

Cabbage is big in Japanese cooking and is super cheap.

Buy things in season. Go to the grocery store late for discounts.

If you can bake your own bread you can get the cost down to less than 50 yen per loaf/baguette, but you need an oven (though you can get one for a reasonable price at a recycle shop).

dizmox Wrote:Hmm.. generally yakisoba, ramen, red braised pork when pork belly is selling cheaply, nabe, stew, curry (Indian and Japanese), pasta, yakiniku, oyakodon, gyuudon, nikujaga, chaahan, takoyaki, miso saba, cooked smoked fish from the supermarket, etc. + rice/miso soup for lunches/dinners, plus some snacks/fruit/dessert. Usually just have cheese/jam toast for breakfast.

Thanks for the comprehensive list! What would you say is the easiest to prepare?

And about those families... so 250 yen or so for a person for a whole day? I guess poverty strikes hard even here... because I can't believe it's sufficient amount of food for them.

Tzadeck Wrote:Disorganized random stuff:
...

Thanks for suggestions Tzadeck! Yeah, some things natural to Japan are really cheap compared to more western foods, for example daikon is dirt cheap.

50~ yen for a bread? I must think about it really seriously, especially because I hate the toast 食パン here, only can live on the bread from bakery, when the cheapest medium sized baguette is from 100 yen.

As for cheap shops, usually 業務スーパー have the best prices, but they tend to sell their products in large portions which can be a problem if you don't have large fridge/storage.

The obvious thing missing from this thread is:

Costco.

If you know someone with a car, then split costs of going. If not, then just buy what you can carry back with you in a giant bag and/or book bag.

Rayath Wrote:

dizmox Wrote:Hmm.. generally yakisoba, ramen, red braised pork when pork belly is selling cheaply, nabe, stew, curry (Indian and Japanese), pasta, yakiniku, oyakodon, gyuudon, nikujaga, chaahan, takoyaki, miso saba, cooked smoked fish from the supermarket, etc. + rice/miso soup for lunches/dinners, plus some snacks/fruit/dessert. Usually just have cheese/jam toast for breakfast.

Thanks for the comprehensive list! What would you say is the easiest to prepare?

Uhmm.. yakisoba is dirt cheap and easy to make (just fry a small amount of meat (or tofu or nothing), cabbage and whatever other vegetables are on hand and add the noodles and sauce packet) - 100yen+

Can find (fresh) ramen packets with sauce and noodles for 100 yen per person, plus add some cheap meat and cabbage and whatever. 150yen+

Japanese curry ends up costing 35 yen worth of roux per person (double portions), maybe 80 yen worth of chicken, 25 yen worth of potatoes and 25 yen worth of carrots, 20 yen worth of onions (for example). Again, under 200 yen. Instructions on the box. (Japanese) stew is basically the same.

Indian curry costs a bit more unless you buy spices in bulk (eg. from amazon) since supermarkets only carry expensive, tiny jars of them. Time consuming to make, so only recommended for 暇人.

Yakiniku - just fry cabbage, moyashi, etc. with any meat. Dip in yakiniku sauce while eating.

Pasta - no brainer

Nabe - put sauce in nabe, add whatever you want and boil. The sauce is kind of expensive in the supermarkets nearby and ends up being around the same as the cost of the rest of the ingredients combined.. so 200-300 yen per person probably...

Gyuudon - mix 2.5 big spoons of sugar, 2 big spoons of cooking sake, 1.5 big spoon of soy sauce, a pinch of dashi and 150ml~ of water. Add 200g of beef and half an onion and boil in the frying pan until the moisture has mostly reduced. Put on rice. Maybe 160 or so yen per person. Same basic method works for oyakodon (except you add eggs at the end) and miso saba (except you add ginger instead of onion). Sukiyaki similar.

Rice is always a cheap source of calories (60~ yen per 一合　＝ 500 calories ) and should be added to all of the above.

Takoyaki can be made for around 10 yen per ball I think... something like that (too tired to calculate)

Quote:And about those families... so 250 yen or so for a person for a whole day? I guess poverty strikes hard even here... because I can't believe it's sufficient amount of food for them.

Well the working poor are everywhere so there must be some. I know it's possible to live off 2 pounds a day in the UK and some families do, but probably 250 yen is impossible in Japan.. probably 350 is achievable.

What do people rely most on for protein? I mainly eat beef, fish, shellfish, dairy and eggs in the UK. Seems like only eggs will be in a decent price range in Japan (maybe?). I do remember seeing some iwashi and ika for what I thought was a really low price when I was there. My g/f told me any decent cheese is crazily priced, and yoghurt and cream are out of the question.

I'll probably follow the in-season stuff and reductions for produce. It seemed like mushrooms, onions and piiman were cheap at least. They both make a good base for stir-fry or pasta sauce (I'll look out for the canned tomatoes). I like bananas after exercise, so glad they're cheap, and I found a company called Bulk Sports that sells whey for the same price I get it here too.

Rayath Wrote:Instants like cup ramen, and also nikuman or frosted food are not really a choice because they have lots of sodium, which is bad for your blood pressure, and can cause heart problems in future.

I'd look more into the quality of the oils if you're interested in heart health. Japan is probably the best place to be to balance those junky omega-6s though.

Lots of good suggestions, thanks everyone!

Javizy Wrote:What do people rely most on for protein?

I don't know about the UK, but I think meats in Japan are generally more expensive than those in America.

However, chicken breasts are (relative to the other meats) cheap in Japan. It's usually like 49 to 69 yen for 100 grams (and this is in downtown Tokyo). The cheapest other meats are usually 100+ yen per 100 grams.

I've also heard tofu is REALLY cheap, but I don't eat it so I'm not sure just how cheap.

Tzadeck Wrote:Getting good at Japanese cooking is a plus, since a lot of the Japanese foods are cheaper to cook.

It's winter so it's a good time to eat nabe, which is super cheap!

I actually don't find nabe to be that cheap because I usually end up putting in a lot of vegetables. Vegetables are super expensive here compared to America. However, one trick I have been using is to make rice at the same time. Before I fill my bowl up with Nabe, I fill it up halfway with rice. That way I can make my nabe last longer.

Tzadeck Wrote:A lot of it is getting to know which foods are cheap. You want to have some fruit in the house? Might wanna go with bananas or mikan, since you can get a good volume for cheap--especially bananas. Apples and strawberries aren't happening anytime soon.

...

Cabbage is big in Japanese cooking and is super cheap.

Buy things in season. Go to the grocery store late for discounts.

This is really true. This is one of the things I need to focus on doing more. However, some stuff really fluctuates a lot. Some weeks I'll go to the store and cabbage will be like 100 yen for a big head, and other weeks it'll be like 300 yen for a big head!

Javizy Wrote:What do people rely most on for protein? I mainly eat beef, fish, shellfish, dairy and eggs in the UK. Seems like only eggs will be in a decent price range in Japan (maybe?).

I get eggs for about 130 yen for 8 I think, but don't eat that many. I think chicken here is slightly cheaper than the UK so I mostly have that. Tofu works as well (60 yen for about 400 calories worth I think). Pork can be reasonable or expensive. A litre of milk costs about 150 yen. Shellfish is expensive. Fish is comparable to UK prices.

You don't need that much protein anyway. 100-150g a day of meat provides enough for a day.

Quote:I do remember seeing some iwashi and ika for what I thought was a really low price when I was there. My g/f told me any decent cheese is crazily priced, and yoghurt and cream are out of the question.

Yeah... the only cheese I end up eating is the very processed kind. Yoghurt costs about 40-60 yen a pot.


What bothers me most is the cost of fruit really. I'll never understand why I can't find a melon for less than 1000 yen or an apple for less than 100, whilst bananas aren't too expensive. Even native fruit like kaki is 100 or so each... I guess a lot of consumers here have this infuriating mindset of thinking of these as luxury/veblen produce or are too petty about imperfections.

Also I'm not sure why they don't use western strains of potatoes instead of the tiny ones in the supermarket.

Thank you so much for the detailed meals rundown dizmox!

2 words: time service.

http://expat.interglobal.com/2012/06/08/...-in-japan/

Also, you can find some advice here:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=5844

Lastly, you might want to find sources of free food, like guest lectures or even events at colleges/universities/other institutions. Supermarkets and department store food courts (in the basement) apparently give enough food to fill yourself up. Find all of them and make yourself a free food tour.

dizmox Wrote:You don't need that much protein anyway. 100-150g a day of meat provides enough for a day.

That'd be like 20-40g... The high end of that is below official recommendations, which are pretty low, and unworkable if you exercise. I'm concerned about it mainly because I'm trying to do something about my skinny fatness. Protein-rich foods tend be high in a load of other nutrients too. It sounds like I can work something out without breaking the bank.

Quote:Yeah... the only cheese I end up eating is the very processed kind. Yoghurt costs about 40-60 yen a pot.

My g/f said her French colleague struggles with this the most. I'm not even sure if the price she mentioned for brie was serious.

Quote:What bothers me most is the cost of fruit really.

I saw some laughable prices for melons and berries when I was there. They started selling 3-packs of kaki for £1 here. I think it's the £1 lines like these that I'm going to miss...

[RawToast]

Javizy Wrote:That'd be like 20-40g... The high end of that is below official recommendations, which are pretty low, and unworkable if you exercise. I'm concerned about it mainly because I'm trying to do something about my skinny fatness. Protein-rich foods tend be high in a load of other nutrients too. It sounds like I can work something out without breaking the bank.

Might be best to get hold of some whey, that must be available in health shops, gyms, or online?

I wonder if our great British food export: "Baked Beans" are available in Japan?

Another option is to go to farmer's market.
http://www.japanfarmersmarkets.com/

Some vendors have good prices, but apparently Japanese people equate low price with low quality (at least according to the website listed above). There was a market with 100 yen and 250 yen zucchinis. No one bought the 100 yen zucchinis, but apparently they're just as good as the ones that were 250 yen.

Btw, for people living in the NYC area (and Westchester).

I know a farm in the US that exclusively grows Japanese vegetables for about 30 years now. It's owned by a Japanese couple that wanted to grow Japanese produce in the US. They deliver to various places in NYC.

Farm-to-table Japanese produce.

They have a $30 value pack with an assortment of vegetables every week.

English:
http://www.nihonyasai.com

Japanese:
http://www.nynojo.com

RawToast Wrote:

Javizy Wrote:That'd be like 20-40g... The high end of that is below official recommendations, which are pretty low, and unworkable if you exercise. I'm concerned about it mainly because I'm trying to do something about my skinny fatness. Protein-rich foods tend be high in a load of other nutrients too. It sounds like I can work something out without breaking the bank.

Might be best to get hold of some whey, that must be available in health shops, gyms, or online?

I've seen that whey powder in drugstores.

Javizy Wrote:That'd be like 20-40g... The high end of that is below official recommendations, which are pretty low, and unworkable if you exercise. I'm concerned about it mainly because I'm trying to do something about my skinny fatness. Protein-rich foods tend be high in a load of other nutrients too.

I thought it was more like 30-45.., let's revise that to 200g of meat then.　I must be slowly killing myself...

dizmox Wrote:I thought it was more like 30-45.., let's revise that to 200g then.　I must be slowly killing myself...

The GDA is 45g if you're a woman. It's 10g higher for men, without mention of exercise. I have good reasons to not want to be skinny fat, and I haven't suggested you have to follow the GDA personally. A recent study debunked the idea of needing silly amounts of protein, and if you could prove subtle dietary choices "slowly kill" people, you could probably put half the food industry out of business.

I'll try to up my intake a bit anyway >_>

Not sure what 'silly' amounts to exactly, but I'd be interested in reading the study.

As long as you eat food it's difficult not to get enough protein.

mourei Wrote:Not sure what 'silly' amounts to exactly, but I'd be interested in reading the study.

The kind of amounts bros insist you have to eat to build muscle. The study I mentioned wasn't quite as recent (2006) or conclusive as I thought, but the run down of it the doc on SuppVersity did might be an interesting read if you're forcing down 200g/day or something.

Ok, so I'm not cooking very often, but you can eat healthy without spending a lot of money in Japan!
That is if you like Japanese things!

Natto, tofu and goya are all pretty cheap and healthy.
There are a lot of pickles and vegetables that are cheap in Japan - and healthy!

If you want to eat foreign (healthy) food, then it gets ridiculously expensive.
I'm German and from time to time I just NEED my German whole-grain bread ... don't ask how expensive that is! The same goes for cheese and certain types of fruit.

Why not learn fishing and catch fish yourself?
Wouldn't the fish you catch be free?
Maybe you can find random bait lying around (worms, etc).

thecite Wrote:As long as you eat food it's difficult not to get enough protein.

yep.

I used to be too skinny too. For a while I tried to fix that by going to gym and also consuming whey powder (which tastes awful btw), and eating a lot of eggs.

What I've found most effective though is just getting more calories, like going out of my way to get more calories. Eating lot's of rice, konbini bread etc. Calories + the right kind of exercises can build you plenty of muscle and burn off the fat.