I somehow managed to pass N1 again, but with a much lower score. I got 106 this time, but like 121 last time. I'm interested in seeing what the pass rate was like. Maybe this was just a harder test or something.

My listening stayed pretty much the same while everything else was a handful of points worse. I can't really say I'm surprised at all considering I didn't spend a single second preparing for this JLPT because I've been pouring all my effort into KanKen.

I really need to sit down with a grammar drill book or work through a proper grammar text. I also need to drill listening a bunch. I hate the way the test does listening, but it's no use whining about it. I should be acing that section since I live in Japan and have Japanese conversations literally every day. I even have business-ey conversations with a decent regularity.

My hearing even for English isn't great sometimes, but it definitely gets a lot worse in Japanese. They always have the speakers up so loud, and it echoes horribly in the kinds of classrooms where they host the test. Maybe I should train for it by buying some 100円 earbuds, and slamming them in my front door a few times to make sure the sound coming out of them is nice and garbled.

Tzadeck Wrote:Ha. I failed N1 by one point. Why am I so bad at this silly test?

Wow, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone doing that before. Does that mean you got 99 points total, or you got a 19 on one of the sections? Man, that really sucks.

[Zgarbas]

You guys are making me nervous (2 more days till results are out) >.<

and there's a thread for 2012 results now

@Tzadeck: I can imagine how depressing it must be to fail the test by one point. That's really just bad luck man~ But don't give up

@erlog: Congratulations!!!! N1 is a great achievement!

I plan on failing by a LOT of points because the stars simply did not line up for me that day... Now that I've taken nearly 2 months off from studying, it's about time to get it going again. I was playing around with KanjiBox the other day; It's amazing how much kanji I've forgotten already.

Cramming = no good.

>> I would really like to use Anki to solve this problem. Whenever I would encounter 目標・目的 in a text for example, my brain would just think "yep, it's the word for 'goal/target/aim'" and nothing more.

mokuhyou is a level you set as target that could be reached or even surpassed.
mokuteki is your goal, you can reach it or not, but it's not a level, or at least is not restricted to that.
For example, passing N2 is your mokuhyou, while proficiency in japanese is your mokuteki.
To pass N2 within this year is your mokuteki, studying (at least) 3 prep books is your mokuhyou.
Learning a lot of words is your mokuteki, learning 1000 words in one months is your mokuhyou.

Or at least this is the difference I've always had in mind. Hope it helped.

[Zgarbas]

I had a question about that. I'll often hear shounen anime use 目的 as "intention". (e.g. a character breaks into an establishment, you'll hear the owner of that establishment ask what kind of 目的 this guy could have). I kind of always pictured it as anime-only speech, though. Can it be used like this?

If this is in sentences like
ご来訪の目的は何ですか。

then it translates just to
What's the purpose of your visit?

partner55083777 Wrote:

Tzadeck Wrote:Ha. I failed N1 by one point. Why am I so bad at this silly test?

Wow, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone doing that before. Does that mean you got 99 points total, or you got a 19 on one of the sections? Man, that really sucks.

I got 99 points total.

:/

This is actually the first time I've been frustrated by failing a JLPT, because I feel like if I took it today I would definitely pass (since I've actually been doing anki properly lately, haha). But now I have to wait around for six months and then a couple more to get the results. Annoying.

Later this month I'll need to make a study plan. Ideally I'd like to have completed　新完全
マスターN2 series by September for the December test. If anyone has a 6 month study plan already laid out hit me with it save me the trouble =).

[Zgarbas]

Not sure what you mean by study plan, but I say just study a lot of everything, then download a past N2 exam in summer, run a mock exam and try to judge your results, then spend the following months focusing on the parts you did wrong.

Also, remember to not neglect 社長 and business vocab. Whenever 社長 popped up (and he did a lot, especially during listening) I cried a bit inside.

@Inny Jan, I see . So 目的 can also represent an immediate goal with a softer nuance, not just a distant ideal goal?

I always thought 目的　always represented the purpose/intention/aim and immediate goals(e.g goals in a game) whereas 目標　represents those "distant ideal goals" as in when set long term goals/new year resolutions they want to achieve. (e.g losing weight, learning Japanese etc)

A quick google search gave me this
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/...1417989059

I took JLPT N1 and passed by a razor thin margin (103/180), which I mostly attribute to Anki, since it really kept me on the ball with active studying. Thus, my JLPT history looks something like this:

2006 - Start studying Japanese
2009 - JLPT 2 (don't remember the score, but I failed)
2010 - JLPT N2 (85/180 - Fail)
--start using Anki midyear 2011--
2011 - JLPT N2 (124/180 - Pass)
2012 - JLPT N1 (103/180 - Pass)

Don't think I'll take the JLPT again, at least anytime in the near future, but as for continued studying, I'm going to start aiming for the Kanken tests to build up more vocabulary and engrain the kanji better. I'm also interested in the Nihongo Kentei tests, but I don't know much about them. Gotta get some new decks set up, although I did find a decent Kanken review app for iPhone/iPad that goes from 4kyu up to 2kyu. Of course, there's also always room for refining vocab and grammar usage. I'm actually taking Kanken 4kyu on Friday and severely doubt I will pass. Almost 6 1/2 years to N1 and I still feel far from "fluent", lol.

DevvaR Wrote:I always thought 目的　always represented the purpose/intention/aim and immediate goals(e.g goals in a game) whereas 目標　represents those "distant ideal goals" as in when set long term goals/new year resolutions they want to achieve. (e.g losing weight, learning Japanese etc)

A quick google search gave me this
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/...1417989059

Also from the dictionary:
[用法]目的・[用法]目標――「目的（目標）に向かって着実に進む」のように、めざすものの意では相通じて用いられる。◇「目的」は、「目標」に比べ抽象的で長期にわたる目あてであり、内容に重点を置いて使う。「人生の目的を立身出世に置く」◇「目標」は、目ざす地点・数値・数量などに重点があり、「目標は前方三〇〇〇メートルの丘の上」「今週の売り上げ目標」のようにより具体的である。


I would also like to say that I don't understand language study so I'mma go read a book.

Well, that sentence was just copied from my 辞書. Other examples on 目的 are:

彼女は人生のはっきりとした目的を持っていない
She has no specific aim [purpose, goal, object, objective] in life.

彼の設計は様々の目的にかなうものではない
His design does not answer [fulfill, 《正式》serve, suit] our purpose.

目的を達する
attain [accomplish, achieve, effect] one's purpose

人生の目的を達する［達しない］
attain [fail in] one's object in life

代表団の第一の目的は両国の親善を促進することである
The delegation's primary objective is to promote friendly relations between the two countries.《形式ばった文ではobjectiveが好まれる》

As a matter of interest, here is what I found on differences between: purpose, aim, goal, object, objective.

「目的」の意の最も一般的な語はpurpose。aimは他のより具体的・特定的な「目標」に使われることが多い。objectiveは《正式》。意味はこの５語で大きな差がなく。交換可能な場合が多い。

I didn't bother to copy examples from 目標 but they don't differ to much...

patriconia Wrote:I'm also interested in the Nihongo Kentei tests, but I don't know much about them.

Obviously a google search will give you plenty of information but I've always pondered what it might be like to take 5-7級 because you'd be a 20 or 30 something gaijin taking a test with a bunch of school kids. I'm sure it would make for an interesting story.

In any case one would think that if you passed N1 you would be looking towards 4級 or higher.

L2RI: 日本語検定 試験のご案内

I've never heard of anyone taking the Nihongo Kentei. Has anyone on this forum taken it? Or even known anyone that has taken it? Care to share your experiences (like why you took it and how it was)?

I wonder if Nihongo Kentei's １級 is as crazy-hard as Kanken's １級...?

Edit: Just took their 5-question practice test and got 4/5 on ６級 (damn せめて...). Got 3/5 on the ４級 test (there was one analogy question where I knew literally 0 of the words, lol). Got 3/5 on the ２級 test but I honestly guessed on all of the questions. I was recommended to take the ３級 test.

Nihongo Kentei is a little weird. It doesn't strike me as a very popular test, even among Japanese people. I looked into taking it about a year ago, and I decided it wasn't really worth it. The kind of material it tests isn't really that similar to JLPT, and it seemed to boil down to a lot of nit-picky grammar trivia involving 敬語 and 謙譲語.

Something like 語彙・読解力検定 or the BJT would probably be a better framework for improving real Japanese, and also probably count for more on a resume. Nihongo Kentei strikes me as one of the tests aimed at hobbyists that job interviewers probably wouldn't care about. Whereas the BJT or the other test I linked would be taken by university students(both foreign and native) in Japan specifically to prove their abilities.

Standardized tests in Japan are a big business. There's a kentei for literally everything. I just got a flyer in the mailbox at my highschool letting students know the schedule for the Handling of Hazardous Materials Kentei. So just because a kentei exists doesn't mean it's worthwhile. A lot of them aren't meant to be serious examinations, and are just marketed towards hobbyists.

Now, I could be wrong about Nihongo Kentei, but in my experiences in Japan so far I'd have to say that something like KanKen/BJT/another kind of 読解検定 aimed at native speakers would take you further.

Thanks for the info, everyone. I had looked at the Nihongo Kentei site a little bit before, but as I was still in JLPT study mode, I didn't really look too deeply into it. When I told Japanese people I was taking the JLPT, many of them seemed to mistake it for the Nihongo Kentei. Never heard of the 語彙・読解 one, but it sounds interesting.

erlog Wrote:Something like 語彙・読解力検定 or the BJT would probably be a better framework for improving real Japanese, and also probably count for more on a resume.

I must emphatically disagree. These kinds of standardized tests are completely useless on resumes for Japanese native speakers and since that is their target audience I believe they would also be equally useless for a foreigner.

In general even taking and passing the actual JLPT is a bit suspect because you will often still have to take the standard company exams. Also, as long as you can back up the claim in a practical sense, very few employers will ever actually ask for your certificate.

If your main aim is to pass a Japanese test aimed for native speakers, as a hobbyist, then of course any of these tests are fair game as long as they meet your proficiency goals.

However, if your main goal is to have fancy resume fodder your best bet is the highest two 漢検 exams. Although they don't test Japanese language proficiency everyone is familiar with them and they carry clout even among natives.

tokyostyle Wrote:If your main aim is to pass a Japanese test aimed for native speakers, as a hobbyist, then of course any of these tests are fair game as long as they meet your proficiency goals.

This is pretty much my goal at this point. Of course, my ultimate goal is to eventually reach a very high level of fluency and literacy, and at this point I see the tests as frameworks that provide a base of knowledge with a deadline to learn it by and an independent evaluation of my abilities at the end. While I've found that I am subjectively aware of things like being able to understand conversations a little better than a few months ago or understand TV a little better than before, the tests, while not perfect, provide a more independent, objective look at how much progress was made in the various competencies each test is built for.

patriconia Wrote:When I told Japanese people I was taking the JLPT, many of them seemed to mistake it for the Nihongo Kentei.

I've had this same experience. It's kind of embarrassing when you say you've passed １級 and they think it's １級 for the Nihongo Kentei.

tokyostyle Wrote:However, if your main goal is to have fancy resume fodder your best bet is the highest two 漢検 exams. Although they don't test Japanese language proficiency everyone is familiar with them and they carry clout even among natives.

I agree, and I'll second this. I'm studying for KanKen pretty aggressively, but a lot of KanKen boils down to trivia. It's pretty easy to study for via Anki and that DS game, but it takes a whole lot of time. For a lot of people that time could probably be better spent practicing reading/speaking/writing instead of studying kanji in hyper detail.

I've seen definite benefits from it(around 準2級 level right now), but I think my progress in other areas has stalled at the expense of it. I'm confident that'll sort itself out in the end, though, since I have the luxury of time on the JET program.