This thread basically went into a discussion about depression, but to go back to the original topic a bit, I think it's a mistake to think of this as a case of a hidden depression. In America (and, I imagine, most of Europe, Canada, etc.) suicide is almost only done by depressed people. But that's just not true in Japan, so I think there's no reason to assume that this boy must have been hiding something. That might be the case, but not necessarily.

I remember a case I read about a few years ago where a company had done something sketchy and was getting bad press for it. One guy claimed he was responsible and killed himself. One of my Japanese friends explained to me that this is pretty common. Typically there is an understanding that if one of the people who are vaguely responsible kills himself, the company will take care of his family monetarily and won't take action against anyone else in the company for their negligence. And, someone taking responsibility and killing themselves seems to remove the stigma of the company to some extent in the public's eye.

That's pretty astounding from an American/European viewpoint. First of all, an employee killing himself would put more of a stigma onto the company, rather than removing some. And, second of all, most people would assume that their lives are more important to themselves and their family compared to the reputation of their company or the money involved.

I think it's safe to say that Japan has very different views on suicide, though I can't say I know too too much about it.

Even during my short stay in Japan last year (about 1 month) one of my trains was delayed because a guy tried killing himself. It's sad for sure but Japan pays so much attention to the trains and keeping people from getting hurt I wonder why people keep trying to use trains as their suicide attempt. Why is that? Is it because it's the easiest way? I guess I could see that in a country where guns are so rare. I don't want to stray far from the thread but just got me curious.

Tzadeck Wrote:That's pretty astounding from an American/European viewpoint. First of all, an employee killing himself would put more of a stigma onto the company, rather than removing some. And, second of all, most people would assume that their lives are more important to themselves and their family compared to the reputation of their company or the money involved.

As an ancedote to this. Many people may recall the story leaking out of Foxconn employees committing suicide in China over working conditions, which was followed shortly after by another suicide. This got picked up by the media in the West, particularly in the US since this is the company that makes the iPhone. The public's opinion on Apple and Foxconn was tarnished. Since then its fallen out people's memories, but Foxconn did a lot (shitty things) to try and remedy the issue and I think in general its just one of many things that has left a foul taste in some people's mouth's over having Apple make the iPhone in China.

Quote:I think it's safe to say that Japan has very different views on suicide, though I can't say I know too too much about it.

I agree. I really don't know where it stems from. I'm not so quick to jump on such ideas as "It's because of their Confucian background." or other sort of histio-anthropologic explanations. I do feel like the reactions to suicide differ depending on who does it though. Adults doing it seems to garner a different reaction compared to when children do it. When children do it, its someone else's fault and the failing of the system somehow, but when an adult does it its some sort of valid retribution.

I suspect if guns were as prevalent in Japan as in the US, that you'd see a very scary rise in suicide.

IceCream Wrote:I think it's just that i (and i think uisukii as well) are talking about something a little different, so we're ending up talking at cross purposes a bit.

I don't think so, but probably I'm leaving a piece of the issue out of the discussion, and I admit that I can dig a little deeper but I've been ignoring that.
Back to the topic!

TheVinster Wrote:Even during my short stay in Japan last year (about 1 month) one of my trains was delayed because a guy tried killing himself. It's sad for sure but Japan pays so much attention to the trains and keeping people from getting hurt I wonder why people keep trying to use trains as their suicide attempt. Why is that? Is it because it's the easiest way? I guess I could see that in a country where guns are so rare. I don't want to stray far from the thread but just got me curious.

About this and other comments about suicide methods in Japan: there is actually a famous book that was published in Japan about how to commit suicide. It basically lists a lot of ways to kill yourself that will cause your family and whoever cleans you up the least trouble and money. Since that book was published a lot of people choose those alternative ways, but trains still remain pretty popular.

Actually, there's not much security around trains. There is at the station, but there are plenty of railroad crossings all over the place where you could easily step out in front of a train. Also, freight trains or rapid trains at local stations go by near full speed, and there's generally nothing blocking the tracks from the platforms. The exception is the shinkansen or subway tracks, which are generally inaccessible.

I've never understood why* more large walls aren't put up at many stations. Many of the underground stations on the Tsukuba Express for instance, have a chest high wall so you can't fall/jump on the tracks. There are doors that open/close to let you past onto the train when the train's doors open.

*: I get it. Its probably cause of money.

Hmm I've been thinking is the suicide rate in Japan really that much higher than America's suicide rate? Right now the suicide rate is about twice that of America's suicide rate, but a some of it has to do with Japanese people having a higher rate of success for suicide than Americans. Also Latinos, Blacks, and Fundamentalist Christians don't like suicide as it is considered a sin against God, unmasculine, or something. They might do very dangerous things in order to kill themselves, and not have the bad label of "suicide", like police assisted suicide where people go up to a police man and "threaten" them so that the police man can shoot them and they go to heaven, enlist in the army, or put themselves in very dangerous situations. Also officials who are Christian might be biased against labeling suicide as cause of death when there is a lack of evidence as there is a big stigma. In Japan has a very high stigma for murder, but not as big as a stigma for suicide, and there have been cases where suicides have turned out to be murders.

My friend is an emt worker in New York, and he told me that about one third of reported cases of suicide he encounters are actually failed attempts at auto-erotic asphhyxiation. He meets lots of stiffs, so to speak. Naturally the family calls it a suicide but the kid was just looking to rub one out before going to sleep or whatever.
it's a dangerous hobby...

I was talking to someone at work today who's an Anime/Manga fan but doesn't speak Japanese or anything, and anyway, he told me about the 'Suicide Forest' in Japan, which turns out to be 青木ヶ原. Apparently it's highly recommended by the suicide manual mentioned earlier in this thread.

I think the place actually looks pretty cool, if one sets aside the risk of stumbling over a recent suicide, it's a really unique forest.

There's a sign put up by the police to advise would-be suicides that reads

Quote:命は親から頂いた大切なもの
もう一度静かに両親や兄弟、
子供のことを考えてみましょう。
一人で悩まずまず相談してください。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aokigahara
http://www.tofugu.com/2012/07/23/aokigah...-of-death/


Fascinating as all that is, it's only the #3 spot in the world for suicides. The #1 and #2 spots are the Nanjing Yangtze River Bridge (China) and the Golden Gate Bridge (USA), respectively. According to wikipedia, anyway. I'm not sure those statistics are useful for measuring anything, but I feel like there's some connection between the original question and 'popular' suicide sites. Going to popular suicide site suggests a person has been more influenced by society's representation of suicide, I think, compared to taking simpler measures at home.

There are a few user created "documentary" on Youtube, about 青木ケ原- a bunch of non-Japanese people basically taking strolls with a camcorder in the hopes of finding remains. You're likely to find a bunch of amateurish clips if you search for something along with lines of "Japan death forest" or "Japanese suicide forest". The events aside, from what I've seen, it looks like an interesting forest to wander about.

It was a while ago, so I don't remember well, but wasn't there something about online suicide pacts, where a small group of people would more or less discuss their plight and organise where to meet up and how to end their lives? It was in the news or something a few years back?

I may be confusing it for something I saw in a movie or read in a book.

VICE did a great documentary on the forest: