Ok, so I've thought really hard about it, and I think I've found what I want to do with my life, at least for starters... I want to be a quant. Not just because of the money, but because it really interests me. The question is how do I get there? As far as I know you have to have a degree in economics (Msc - preferably major in finances) and an Msc or PHD in physics I think. Then what happens? You just start applying, or do you need some extra stuff for it (connections, references, qualification, experience), so my eventual question is, how do someone become a quant? Does it matter where you acquired your degrees or it must be a major university in the world? So I'm kinda lost here, but at least I've figured out where I want to go, I just don't know how to. Any ideas / experiences?

[Zgarbas]

I really don't mean to be rude, but could you keep the random thoughts regarding your career to a single thread? I'm sure the people who wish to help would notice your post in, say, that nice thread with an ambiguous enough topic to fit most random questions.. I'm sure that way you'd have a nice, concrete place to keep your various thoughts and prospects and maybe put a bit of perspective on previous thoughts and their evolution.
Just saying.

first of all, i would like you to reconsider. if you're smart enough to become a quant, there really are more useful and rewarding things you can do for yourself, your community, and the world instead of playing a worthless game of passing money around to get rich. i'm not sure of your age or background, but please don't choose a career based on money. you say it really interests you, but why? whatever it is that you find interesting in it, you can probably find in other things which are more fulfilling to yourself and others, and isn't insanely competitive.

i offer this advice as someone who obtained a phd in physics. i did it out of selfish curiosity, but now i am older and desire to contribute to society. there's no way i would go into finance! i can tell you for certain that just getting a phd in physics from a prestigious university will not easily get you a quant job (but it can be done if you're relentlessly persistent and have the right contacts). the days of hedge funds scooping up phds are long gone. and anyway, the thought of pursuing a phd in physics as a means to becoming a quant is just absurd. if you go into a physics phd program, you better love physics or you're just wasting your time and you probably won't make it out the other end. besides, the skills in demand will probably change by the time you're ready to apply.

/my two cents

Ras-San,

Hope all is well. You might check out the book "My life as a Quant" for a view of the quant world in decades past. In a nutshell, this was an interesting path to apply some math and physics models to financial markets.

I'll highlight some challenges below. You can find all the great parts of being a quant in books, magazine articles.

My views are slanted so use this as just a piece of your due diligence. Also my experience is biased towards the US and Western Europe.

A large percentage of quants have advanced degrees, often doctorates with some post doctoral work, in the hard sciences (physics, maths, etc.). Most people from Wall Street and hedge funds attended Ivy League schools or the leading French schools. IIT in India was also a good feeder. I know a few guys who attended less "prestigious" schools but they were usually the superstars with 3.9/4.0 gpas and three majors or came from a well-known family. So an advanced degree in economics from an unknown school will unfortunately make things difficult. I don't think the education is better at these "prestigious" schools but that is a first screen for employers unfortunately.

Also, the quant business is under a lot of pressure as global bank regulators force banks to reduce prop trading and derivatives activity. And the statistical risk models (VaR etc) failed miserably in the 2008 crisis and beyond. So-called quant hedge funds had several years of bad returns and did not protect investors during the 2008 financial crisis. Some of this is due to fact that most quant investors were using the same handful of models and everything failed together. Another factor is the persistent over confidence of the quants in their models (and the persistent underestimation of risk in the quants' models). So you can make your own conclusions on career opportunities there.

Part of the problem is that natural science models and statistical analysis does a poor job in analyzing crisis or extreme situations which, happen all too often. Also, only a few models are (mis) applied in the financial world so some of my quant friends are not very stimulated intellectually. On Wall Street most quants are paid less than others (investment bankers, traders, sales guys, PMs etc). They are still well paid relative to most others.

If you love math, stats, physics, I would think along a career in those areas. If you love Econ, then maybe an economics degrees is appropriate. Incidentially, the typical path for an Econ Phd is not wall street (although each bank hires a handful of "strategists" to publish economic analysis and speak with clients.) Another option is an undergrad degree and masters in hard sciences + MBA. That last option is attractive for some derivatives and trading platforms.

You should network with some quants and speak with them about the industry as a key piece of your due diligence. You can then assemble a view on their motivations, career outlook and optimal path for you.

There are so many exciting quantatative opportunities outside finance I would strongly encourage you to keep an open mind. Look at the google model. Or rapid development of technology...

Good luck and apologies for the long winded message. Also I did not want to come off as negative but it is important you understand the real market environment. Most importantly, do what you enjoy!

Raschaverak Wrote:The question is how do I get there? As far as I know you have to have a degree in economics (Msc - preferably major in finances) and an Msc or PHD in physics I think. Then what happens? You just start applying, or do you need some extra stuff for it (connections, references, qualification, experience), so my eventual question is, how do someone become a quant?

You want a degree+masters in mathematics, physics, compsci or (math based) economics. For more competitive/high level research positions you want a PhD (in any of the above). With just a Masters you'll likely end up in quant development type work (glorified programming) unless you graduated from a top school. Though it is not necessary if you graduate from a top school, it is probably best studying something relevant to your prospective future career (most obviously mathematical finance, or possibly stochastic process theory, AI, statistics, etc.) and becoming a decent programmer along the way. Just apply to companies directly. Professors working in financial areas often tend to have recruitment contacts.

Realistically speaking though, embarking on the above at the age of 27 and persuading university admissions and employers to ignore your age would be very hard for anyone, not to mention the problem of sourcing funds for the education. Maybe utilising your current programming skills and aiming for a financial software oriented IT company or the IT division of a financial services company would be best.

But echoing the above, it's a complete brain drain of an career that provides very little societal value on average. Personal prospects-wise you'd be late to the party anyway. You say it really interests you, but have you tried studying it before? You could hate it.

I'm actively seeking quant jobs at the moment. I have an MSc in Mathematics and have only found very limited junior quant jobs that don't require a PhD with each of these being very competitive and haven't even been asked for an interview after a few months searching. All of these jobs are only in the major finance capitals like London, New York and Zurich so you have to be prepared to move to one of these locations if you don't live there already.

What is your current situation? Do you already have a PhD in a mathematics/finance related subject? Have you worked in the finance sector for 8 years+? Do you have an MSc in Mathematical Finance?

The path I'm most likely going to take now is to get a different graduate finance related job and then branch out, possibly into quantitative finance if that's still my aim by then.