Now that JLPT is behind us, I'm refocusing on a more specific objective - Japanese in the workplace. I passed 2kyuu in 2008 and I just took N1 in NYC (though I'm not too hopeful when it comes to the results). I guess I'm looking for suggestions for books or other tools that would be helpful to accomplish this. I personally don't even like the term "business japanese" but I suppose it implies the ability to give a presentation, send/receive emails, make phone calls, interview etc in Japanese. I think up until this point I was taught how to "get by" and get my point across, but I want to bring these specific skills to a higher level. Down the line, I may end up pursuing english/japanese bilingual jobs. I come from a Finance background and that's the field that I work in now, and from what I can tell so far these jobs demand a higher level of japanese than my current ability. If any of you have been to the Boston Career forum, you know what I'm talking about.

Any suggestions are welcomed...

One book that I did buy a while back was this "面接” book (http://books.livedoor.com/item/4295700). It's been helpful in the sense of giving Exceptional, Fair, and Poor answers to commonly asked interview questions. It gives a little intro about etiquette for interviews, then general interview tips/examples and then goes into relevant questions for different fields. I think it's a pretty solid book, but note it's not intended as a textbook/workbook (no english etc). It's basically book of interview tips in japanese (as the name suggests)

This is the best book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1568364601...-1&pi=SL75

I actually own it.

Also, for technical business terms, read "Business Japanese" by Reiko Suzuki.

Three books

1. Japanese for Professionals - Solid overall book that gives you the basics of everything you need to know. Lots of good English explanation.
http://tinyurl.com/baompwy

2. NG・OKのポイントがわかる　ビジネス文書の書き方＆マナー - Everything you need to know about writing emails and letters in Japanese. It gives you the layout and common mistakes for dozens of different types of letters. It's a native Japanese book so no English here.
http://tinyurl.com/azyouaw

3. にほんご敬語トレーニング - Just a basic textbook for teaching keigo. It's written for foreigners but has no English explanations except for some vocab definitions. 18 chapters, lots of drills, pretty good book.
http://tinyurl.com/a3krpau


I would throw up the book "Business Japanese" but I found it pretty worthless except as a source of 2,000 or so business related vocab. You might want to look into it if you want to SRS those words.
http://tinyurl.com/ax2s4a7

I have the same concern as deanmaka. While I am already at the N1 level, I find it difficult to actually use Japanese in a more formal setting. I guess it's one of those things that you acquire on the job. Still, I would like to have some materials that I can refer to every now and then while at work.
Thanks to chamcham and kitakitsune for the suggestions. I might get "Japanese for Professionals" and "NG・OKのポイントがわかる　ビジネス文書の書き方＆マナー". I particularly like the latter because it also includes manners in a business setting.
I just bought "Business Japanese" by Reiko Suzuki. It's OK so far. I can probably SRS the book once I have progressed a bit. Although I wish the sentences were a bit longer or that there were more reading selections for practice.

I have a specific question about using Japanese at work, specifically about itadakimasu vs moraimasu.

I was sent an email by a colleague. I want to reply to say that I will have another colleague sort it out. Usually, if I was going to say that I would sort it out I would reply with something like 私は対応させて頂きます, which I guess equates to something like 'Let me deal with this'. If you think of 頂く/貰う as indicating that you are 'receiving' something, in this case I am essentially receiving permission to deal with the matter from the recipient so I use 頂く. But I don't know in this case whether it would be more appropriate to say Johnさんが対応させてもらいます because what I am receiving in this case are the services of a third party (John).

Does my question make sense? Anybody know the answer?

No, "Johnさんが対応させてもらいます" would not express what you are trying to say. I'm not sure that's even a valid way of expressing anything.

If you want to say that you are going to have John do it, some ways of saying this are:

- Johnさんに対応してもらいます/頂きます
- Johnさんに任せます/お任せします
- Johnさんに頼みます

Whether to use 尊敬語 or not would depend on whether John is 目上 in relation to you.

Thanks.

John is equal to me. In the end I went for Danさんが対応することになります。

What about if I went for Johnさんが対応させて頂きます。 Could that mean that I am getting the person who sent me the original email to allow John to deal with it in the same way that I would use 私は対応させて頂きます (which is a formulation that I have picked up off my colleagues, so if it's wrong I will have to correct them!).

You can say 私は対応させて頂きます because you're talking about yourself.

If you said "Johnさんが対応させて頂きます", it would mean something like "John will very humbly take care of it", which would be pretty disrespectful to John. I guess it might work if you were telling a customer or superior that John was going to take care of something for them, but in that case, it wouldn't make sense to have -さん after John. It also wouldn't contain any nuance that you are having John do the work. It simply states that he will do it.

Thanks, that's exactly the clarification I am looking for.

Check this site:

デジタルセンス。ビジネスマナー

It's for teaching Japanese people proper business manners, ranging from propper keigo usage to what order to get into the elevator

Hi. I would like to ask you, given that you are at an N1 level or there abouts, why is it that you still want books designed for foreigners learning Japanese?

I think it might help to divide your strategy into two parts.

1. Getting better in general.

Reading and listening to lots of for native/by native material to simply improve your overall competency. Getting used to using a 和和辞典 online like Yahoo辞典 if you aren't already, etc. Writing stuff on lang-8.com or to a pen pal/friend who can check it for you. And so on.

2. Business Specific

Books for Japanese people for improving their business specific Japanese. Plenty of these. Books on how to write good emails. Books on how to use 敬語 properly (for example『敬語の達人』). Because there are lots of little formal rules that are in place which young and even not-so-young Japanese people need to polish up on when entering the work place, you won't find any shortage of good material that is much more affordable than textbooks.

Danchan Wrote:Hi. I would like to ask you, given that you are at an N1 level or there abouts, why is it that you still want books designed for foreigners learning Japanese?

I don't see anyone in this thread making such a wish? And if you mean the OP, his last post was over a year ago...

Yikes, I didn't realize the date on the OP.

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I've worked for a few companies now and at all of them everybody uses 敬語 in internal emails and in meetings. Skype/LINE/face-to-face chats tend to be less formal.

That's why I'm a bit confused about whether to use an 頂く construction or a 貰う construction about a third party - because when talking TO colleagues everybody uses 頂く but I don't know what the correct register is for talking ABOUT colleagues.

And yeah, my grammar is broken all over the place. Unfortunately working and looking after a small child (and the World Cup! - watching it, not playing in it, obviously...) leaves very little time for any sort of formal study. At the moment I am just about keeping up with the 100 or so Anki reviews that come up every day during my commute but I am rarely adding new sentences and my studies have been at a standstill for a few years now.

Should it not, technically be 私の方が対応させて頂きます?

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Thanks again. I understand that 頂く is more formal than 貰う - the precise question I'm asking is about when it is appropriate to use which level of formality.

I was under the impression that it was normal to use the 頂く when emailing colleagues because that is how things have worked at every company that I have worked; so what I was asking was whether, within that framework (that I assumed was standard corporate practice!), whether it is also appropriate to use 頂く when emailing to colleagues about other colleagues.

I realise that I have not stated my question very clearly so I'll have one more go: I think I am a little unclear as to which direction the politeness flows, if that makes sense. To put it another way, for example, if I was talking TO a university professor (let's call him Carlos), I would want to elevate him and humble myself. In that conversation he is above me and I am below him. But if I was talking to Carlos ABOUT a different university professor (let's call her Natalie), is there any obligation on my part to show politeness to her? Like, does Carlos care what level of politeness I display to Natalie?

(I think the reason that I am confused about this is that, again, at the companies I have worked it is standard practice to also use the 頂く level of politeness when talking to clients; but when writing up some notes in an email to my colleagues to say that I was going to have a client do something for me, my colleague corrected it from 頂く to 貰う.)

Am I making any more sense yet? Please ignore if not!

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Arupan Wrote:When you first enter a company, seminar, laboratory or whatever, most people speak in a casual 丁寧語 and, as you already stated above, tend to send emails in 敬語. When you become somewhat close, however (say, about 1 month), those emails also quickly turn into 丁寧語.

That's interesting. I have never seen colleagues use 丁寧語 in internal work-related emails unless they are someone's manager/boss. What industry do you work in?

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Quote:I have also seen several e-mails addressed to some of my working Japanese friends from their colleagues and pretty much all of them were in 丁寧語, unless they were sent to many people at the same time (which might be the problem you're having, I don't know).

Ah, that makes sense. At the companies where I have worked, pretty much ALL of the emails are sent to many people at the same time; for one-on-one communication we would use Skype or LINE or another messaging app. Or our actual voices.

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Anyone have any good Anki decks for business Japanese? My overall ability in Japanese is fairly high, and so mostly what I need to do for business Japanese is memorize vocabulary and phrases. This would be really easy if someone has already made a deck, but I don't see any that have been shared.

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Taurus Wrote:

Arupan Wrote:When you first enter a company, seminar, laboratory or whatever, most people speak in a casual 丁寧語 and, as you already stated above, tend to send emails in 敬語. When you become somewhat close, however (say, about 1 month), those emails also quickly turn into 丁寧語.

That's interesting. I have never seen colleagues use 丁寧語 in internal work-related emails unless they are someone's manager/boss. What industry do you work in?

It may also depend on the specific industry and even company; I don't think Japanese people's keigo use is entirely uniform, especially outside of Tokyo where just using 標準語 instead of the local dialect already feels polite/formal. In Tochigi when I worked at the BOE nobody used keigo even talking to the bosses, but Tochigi is known as a 無敬語 area. This isn't business, but at Waseda the professors used keigo talking to students.

Also sometimes Japanese people drop keigo more quickly with foreigners than with natives, but other Japanese are the reverse (because you're still an outsider).