There's a new video from JapanChannelDotCom today about how Japanese people generally don't want to see or hear negative things:

I've never been to Japan, so I don't know how much true this is, but watching anime and movies (lol, this is sad), it seems like there might be some truth in it. The main character is pretty much always either positive or turns into someone positive. I really don't mean to say I'm judging Japan from animes and movies lol so to those of you who lived there for a while, what is experience with this? How did you put up with this?

Also, I do like slightly ironic/depressed/cynical people and stories. Do you know any films/anime/novels/drama featuring a main character or a plot like that? Oh, and I mean, sure, there are a lot of cases (like Nodame Cantabile or Zetsubou-Sensei) where the guy is not all-smiles, but then again, there's always the other part (Nodame, Kafuka) without whom there'd be no story (and the overall feel of those is mainly positive). Plus their negativity is way exaggerated/funny. Aren't there any cool antiheroes?

There are plenty of "realistic" seinen manga out there. Generally speaking, the shounen demographic entertainment isn't going to have what you're looking for. Kids and youth generally like to emulate or enjoy watching "the hero", so that's what goes into their entertainment.

You could try http://www.mangatraders.com and doing some independent searching using the category search feature. There are loads of manga which have been adapted into both live action movies and anime- maybe you might find something within your interest?


EDIT: have you seen the "Welcome to the NHK" anime adaptation? Sounds like it could be right up your alley. Depending on how much you may or may not relate to the protagonists, it could be a rather intense series to watch, from a physiological point of view.

comeauch Wrote:There's a new video from JapanChannelDotCom today about how Japanese people generally don't want to see or hear negative things:

I've never been to Japan, so I don't know how much true this is, but watching anime and movies (lol, this is sad), it seems like there might be some truth in it. The main character is pretty much always either positive or turns into someone positive. I really don't mean to say I'm judging Japan from animes and movies lol so to those of you who lived there for a while, what is experience with this? How did you put up with this?

Also, I do like slightly ironic/depressed/cynical people and stories. Do you know any films/anime/novels/drama featuring a main character or a plot like that? Oh, and I mean, sure, there are a lot of cases (like Nodame Cantabile or Zetsubou-Sensei) where the guy is not all-smiles, but then again, there's always the other part (Nodame, Kafuka) without whom there'd be no story (and the overall feel of those is mainly positive). Plus their negativity is way exaggerated/funny. Aren't there any cool antiheroes?

If you're wanting some feel-bad stuff to watch/read, I'd recommend something like Evangelion or Saikano. End of Evangelion in particular is the most depressing movie I've ever watched. Naturally I've seen it at least 30 times. Welcome to the NHK!, Hellgirl, Another, Monster (the premise is is that the very positive and upstanding protagonist has his life utterly ruined because he did the right thing), and Requiem for the Phantom are all quite dark, and stay that way the whole course of the show.
I'm like you in that I don't always want to watch stuff that's sunshine and rainbows. There are lots of Japanese series out there that are quite gloomy and depressing, you just have to know where to look.

quark Wrote:If you're wanting some feel-bad stuff to watch/read, I'd recommend something like Evangelion or Saikano. End of Evangelion in particular is the most depressing movie I've ever watched. Naturally I've seen it at least 30 times. Welcome to the NHK!, Hellgirl, Another, Monster (the premise is is that the very positive and upstanding protagonist has his life utterly ruined because he did the right thing), and Requiem for the Phantom are all quite dark, and stay that way the whole course of the show.
I'm like you in that I don't always want to watch stuff that's sunshine and rainbows. There are lots of Japanese series out there that are quite gloomy and depressing, you just have to know where to look.

Thanks for the suggestions!

At first, thanks for making this thread, I watched that video earlier today and the topic is very interesting so I though about making a thread here, and here you are!

I'd like to add that I'm all ears not only for those who's been to Japan, but also for those who had contact with Japanese people, what do you think about the Japanese view of complaining, criticism and negativity in general? Is it really as stated in the video? (They hate it and aren't negative because it bothers other people).

comeauch Wrote:Thanks for the suggestions!

Also, anything written by Urobuchi Gen. (eg Fate/Zero, Madoka)

I don't think it's just about negativity. I generally think controlling your emotions is very important in Japan and a sign of maturity and emotional strength. This is something that my husband and I talk about a lot. I am a "typical" "emotional" American and I often find that I have to control my emotions much more here than I would in America.

I remember one time I was out with my husband's family and my little nephew who was maybe 3 or 4 at the time wanted a toy and started to cry because there wasn't one where we were and my sister-in-law said, "我慢できる？" and he literally held his tears in and stopped himself from crying and I was just amazed. I can't imagine ever seeing a little American kid doing that.

I know these are just broad generalizations but...

@thistime
Mmh, that's interesting... but I think this is a bit different though.
I mean, it's possible to talk calmly about how rough things have been recently or to criticize something or someone without crying and/or shouting. According to what he said though, this would be an inconsiderate thing to do with an acquaintance and even maybe with friends. Of course, leading such a conversation with people you barely know isn't very polite, but friends?

It's interesting, because for me at least, it's quite the opposite: if someone starts telling me about the negative stuff, I would feel this person is opening up to me and we're getting closer. More importantly (if I ever go to Japan), it's also a way for me to make better friends by talking a bit about the less positive things lol.

Yeah, I've seen that. Don't take it too literally - I feel he states the position too strongly. It's a thing, yeah, but it's not an all-pervasive thing.
And, y'know - if someone asks me 'how's it going?' in Australia, I normally won't pour out my heart either. It would be rude.

It's funny, actually, because a lot of Japanese people misunderstand that 'how are you?' doesn't really mean a literal 'how are you?'. If you always answer 'I'm tired/hungry/unhappy/whatever' to what's a simple conversation starter people are going to stop asking you. It took me a long time to stop my high school students from telling me about how tired they are at the beginning of each class.

Negative Japanese manga certainly isn't hard to come by. Try Oyasumi Punpun, Freesia, or Bokurano.

comeauch Wrote:More importantly (if I ever go to Japan), it's also a way for me to make better friends by talking a bit about the less positive things lol.

It seems relationships differ in Japan than in other countries. gimmeaflakeman has said in one of his videos that Japanese people tend to easily cut bonds and end friendships over little matters (will link the video later) compared to other people. Getting to know some will tell.

Japanese people tend to be much more negative in outlook than Americans, but they're much less outspoken about their outlooks. Fatalism is almost pervasive in the society, especially with the younger generation raised in the Lost Decade. The outwardly positive appearance has a lot to do with 建前/本音 (appearances/true feelings) and 和 (harmony).

In the West, a great point of comparison to Japanese social customs is the atmosphere at a cocktail party. In such a situation, when someone asks, "How are your wife and kids?", the appropriate response is something like "They're doing great! As always, my wife is lovely and my kids are adorable! How about yours?" Answering along the lines of "My wife is a unfaithful harlot and my children are undisciplined scoundrels" would be a shocking breach of etiquette. Think of social interaction in Japan as a constant cocktail party, where the appearances of polite society are rigidly maintained.

Quote:Japanese people tend to be much more negative in outlook than Americans, but they're much less outspoken about their outlooks. Fatalism is almost pervasive in the society, especially with the younger generation raised in the Lost Decade.

And that's another thing.
As part of my previous job I interviewed prospective Japanese English teachers to check their English ability. One of the questions to ask to check their use of tenses was 'what do you think the world will be like in 100 years?'. Holy shit the answers I got to that question. Consistently it was something like 'Japan will have been annexed by China/America', 'The world will have ended', 'Global warming kills everything', 'Japan will be sunk by earthquakes' and numerous other completely bleak, often apocalyptic scenarios.

comeauch Wrote:but watching anime and movies (lol, this is sad), it seems like there might be some truth in it. The main character is pretty much always either positive or turns into someone positive.

This isn't true at all. If anything don't take it literally.

uisukii Wrote:have you seen the "Welcome to the NHK" anime adaptation?

I second this. Not to spoil anything, but the mid-to-latter part of this anime struck me as profound and deeply moving. Some people are turned off during the first few episodes, but more's the pity to them for missing out.

It stands as one of the most thought-provoking shows I've seen, personally.

Also if someone needs a genre, I guess dark comedy and slice of life hits around the mark. I once had an acquaintance who complained all through the first two episodes because he couldn't "get" what genre it was supposed to be. Cue my shaking head.

Peace.

Chigun Wrote:

uisukii Wrote:have you seen the "Welcome to the NHK" anime adaptation?

I second this. Not to spoil anything, but the mid-to-latter part of this anime struck me as profound and deeply moving. Some people are turned off during the first few episodes, but more's the pity to them for missing out.

It stands as one of the most thought-provoking shows I've seen, personally.

Also if someone needs a genre, I guess dark comedy and slice of life hits around the mark. I once had an acquaintance who complained all through the first two episodes because he couldn't "get" what genre it was supposed to be. Cue my shaking head.

Peace.

I watched it semi-recently while going through a suicidally low bought of depression, my situation almost uncannily like the main character, only without the metaphorical aid from a certain someone, and support from a close friend. Probably the "hardest" thing I've watched in my life- also one of the things which help me get through that period. Don't think I'm strong enough at the moment to re-watch it, but yeah- an incredibly thought provoking and I think above all (if you can get through it) overwhelmingly hopeful and grounding series.


Spoilers: some of the comments in this youtube clip of one of the songs in the OST are an example of how much this series has effected how people view the world:

/sidetrack

Aikynaro Wrote:And that's another thing.
As part of my previous job I interviewed prospective Japanese English teachers to check their English ability. One of the questions to ask to check their use of tenses was 'what do you think the world will be like in 100 years?'. Holy shit the answers I got to that question. Consistently it was something like 'Japan will have been annexed by China/America', 'The world will have ended', 'Global warming kills everything', 'Japan will be sunk by earthquakes' and numerous other completely bleak, often apocalyptic scenarios.

Really? That's really awkward! I can't imagine this.

The whole reason happy cute culture thrives is because it's an escape from everyday depressing reality and the stress of being 受験生/仕事人間/forever alone. Depression and pessimism are rife in Japan, as it's a high-stress environment (if you follow the crowd anyways) and there is inadequate mental health care. ...hence the high suicide rate.

The original Welcome to NHK novel has great writing, I recommend it highly. The manga can be skipped.

Speaking of manga, a great somewhat related read is 巣晴らし世界 by Asano Inio.


Also... there is ナルキッソス, if you are up to it.

http://narcissu.insani.org/

comeauch Wrote:Also, I do like slightly ironic/depressed/cynical people and stories. Do you know any films/anime/novels/drama featuring a main character or a plot like that?

You're kidding right? There are thousands of them.

I can name like 50 depressing mangas off the top of my head.

On the topic of negativity in Japan I can think of a couple of reasons for it and I'll mention how to combat them. Based on my extensive experience and expertise (ok, not really).

1. Inner/outer circle mentality. If you're not inside a social circle you're an outsider. Japanese people experience great stress when they are excluded from inner circles (such as losing a job).

On the other hand, as a gaijin (an "outsider" by default) you can use this to your advantage. Inflitrate inner circles to embed yourself in Japan. Use any sort of interests - join the "free hugs" people in Harajuku, run a marathon, join a knitting club, it doesn't matter, just become a part of some group. I call it 島国根性対策.

2. 上 vs 下 position. Japan is no longer a feudal society but it is still vertically structured. As a gaijin you're kind of outside the pecking order so this can lead to some negativity.

You could use this to your advantage as well. Try to be in a position of power, as 上 as you can and Japan will adjust its attitude accordingly to incorporate you into its vertical structure.

Are you looking for a job? Maybe you should be looking to hire. Refused access to an onsen? Build your own, with blackjack and hookers. Well, figuratively speaking. Being poor is no sin, but it's no great honor either, as Tevye in "Fiddler on the Roof" used to say. If you don't yet have money, talents or anything than can put you higher in the pecking order you can try to dress nicer, stand taller, speak with more confidence (not arrogance), have more "presence" and generally "fake it till you make it".

Money and power won't make rainbows magically shoot out of your ass but if you don't have above a certain threshold (for example, to move out of a chicken coop apartment) it makes for a lot of negativity, anywhere really, but especially in Japan's vertical structure.

There are plenty of Japanese living outside the structure, to an extend, and are viewed in a similar light as gaijin. The more "creative" people tend to end up this way: artists, some musicians, writers, people who go abroad, etc. generally Japanese who openly express themselves and/or embrace Western cultures. Chances are in the more suburban, gaijin/foreigner dense areas, those Japanese who are pretty easy when it comes to approaching (as in they are open to the idea of being friendly to a stranger or even outgoing enough to approach you) are more likely to be part of those growing number of Japanese who have become jaded with the social system and decided to step out of it (as much as a Japanese really can).

The Japanese who stick to the unspoken of social rules "oldschool style", generally speaking, probably wont be the ones who will allow you an opening to become part of their circle.

Japanese people don't want to hear negativity?

I think someone hasn't seen Japanese tabloids or Japanese net users (the worst).

It -is- true, however, that some people don't know how to handle any criticism of Japan depending where they are on the political spectrum. Those closer to the right will get really angry　(ex. 嫌なら帰れ）, and those to the left will probably agree and worship the superiority of everything the west does. (ex. 外圧無しでは日本は変わらない)

weirdo Wrote:Japanese people don't want to hear negativity?

I think someone hasn't seen Japanese tabloids or Japanese net users (the worst).

I think it's not that Japanese people don't want to hear negativity, but it's what the culture enforces on people to be expected to comply or else, as someone else wrote, get out of "the circle".

I haven't read this anywhere, but after exploring the Japanese culture and society , even if through the Internet, I've noticed that, it's like hidden in plain sight.

In this video, they directly give the yearly number of suicides in Japan, so it seems it's not 100% they don't say negative things on TV.

I think the Japanese are about the same as any other country when it comes to negative things. I think of a number of exceptions, but thats mostly dealing with history. Otherwise, they are just about the same with things.

I still hear about deaths, rapes, and suicides in the media just as much as I do in other countries. I hear talk about falling birth rates and so do the Japanese. I hear about collapsing economy and how Japan feels like its falling behind the world, and so do the Japanese. I hear about (mental) health issues playing the society (hikikkomori) and so do the Japanese. And there are a number of other local and prefectural problems that most of the world never heard about that are relevant to people on a daily basis here; that are just as negative.

I really don't know where this is topic is going, but it doesn't reflect anything that I have seen in real life. I know the OP was talking about lack of manga not having negative endings or whatever, but people have pointed out thats false, and there are plenty of non-manga stuff where this is true. There are a number of novels that are pretty dark and attempt to air social issues in Japan.

Point is just that Japan is just like most other countries in negativity. Tell me, how many Hollywood movies have 'bad endings?'

Depends on the person. Some hate hearing you moan and complain while others couldn't care less.
I will however say there is a general dislike towards negativity when in conversation and this is due to the fact that Japanese people always try to put others first. Talking about how bad your day is or how you hate something/someone is rude because you're focusing on your own problems instead of taking into consideration the feelings of the other party. Hearing negative things doesn't bother them but when you don't avoid it they will assume you don't care about the way they feel and possibly label you as rude (unless you're good friends)--that is where the problem lies. So steer clear of it if you can. Until you know it's okay to complain to the person you're talking to you should probably stay positive just to be "polite".
As far as TV is concerned they probably couldn't care less (none of my friends anyway). They can always turn it off.