Hi guys!
I just finished my first day at Kyoto University and it all finished with a party.. I wish!
It finished with a really tough placement test and I did pretty bad.
The reason? Everything was to be filled out by hand (no JLPT style 選択肢 thing).
And since I've never focused on learning how to write well by hand I sucked so hard it was embarrassing. I'm the only western guy in the class, the other students are Chinese and Korean, so I think I have to work really hard to keep up.

Do you guys have any recommendations on how to up my handwriting fast?
I can read books etc, have passed N1 and understand Japanese well, but I just suck at the production part. I'm thinking about cramming KO2001/Core again, only this time doing production.
Any help would be hot
Thanks!

Z

Do you mean your handwriting is ugly or you can't come up with good sentences? For the latter, I'm really not as advanced as you in Japanese, but what really helped me with German was finding someone to chat with. It really activates all the passive vocabulary you have (although for it to be fast, you'd need someone who really needs to talk ) And if it's about your handwriting being ugly, it can't really such a problem, can't it? If anything we (as roman alphabet users) probably write more legibly than many Japanese people ;P

Btw, cool... Kyoto University... do you keep a blog or a thread about it?

No, it's not about speaking or anything, it's about me not being able to write words (that I can read). I've done RTK and can write the characters fine, but what I struggle with is for example:

担当する 餌　邪魔

I can read these words without thinking, but if somebody asked me to write them by hand I wouldn't be able to do it. I can write the characters based on the Heisig keywords, but I've never worked with production-style cards like たんとう (front) 担当 (back), so I'm very limited when it comes to writing words by hand.

What, kyoto university? Not to go off track but lets have a meet up haha.

You have to practice kakitori where you go from hiragana to kanji. There's also mcd format which is like
Front: 邪__or 邪ま
Back: 邪魔

Try googling 書き取り

I personally have my heisig anki deck in kakitori format and for words I have trouble with I also make a mcd format card.
since you read well you should look into the mcd format!! as far as upping your skills fast, mcd is the only thing I think.
also mcd is really useful for yojijukugo but you shouldn't focus on that now. there's a plug-in for MCDs to save you time.

are they going to take mad points if you write everything in hiragana ? lol well it'll make it mad hard to read. I feel like as long as you hvae enough kanji there it should be okay (not every word that can be kanji doesn't have to be written in kanji(

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It may not be that obvious, but transcription can be one of the best ways to boost your skill at writing. For example, FNN/NHK news; listen, write what you hear, and check your answers against the transcript.

Somewhere on this site I read an article about the positive effects of having (native Japanese) students recite from memory something they had just heard or read. I can't remember it in much detail, but basically it said that for children this increased comprehension, and for adults it increased their ability to express themselves. It also allowed all participants to remember more information as a single semantic chunk.

I've just started using this to work on my own writing by reading a sentence, reciting it from memory and then writing it from memory. It does seem to be helping, but I've only just started and I wasn't doing much writing before, so I can't really vouch for it's efficiency. One thing I do like about it though, is that it makes me more aware of lots of things (like particle usage, word choice and sentence structure) that were passing me by before, and it does seem like a good way of turning words I can read in to words I can write.

Hmm, fast? That bit I'm not sure of, but here is what I do, FWIW.

Some of my cards have just audio on front and these test my writing. Most of the time they are just simple words (経済、食べ物、引越しする) but I also have simple phrases like 毎日の会話表現、教室の指示の言葉.

For words, if I can't remember the word's meaning, I try to resolve the syllables right into kanji and from there into the compound (Heisig comes helpful here because mnemonics have something to hook on). If I do remember the meaning, I can use Heisig based mnemonics right away to write the characters and I still have the option of going resolve-from-syllables path.

I find phrases a bit more challenging because you have an extra step of figuring out meaning of the word within the phrase – I can't recall how many times I failed 教室の指示の言葉

I'm a relative beginner compared to the OP but I would think the solution is to switch to a production deck. Since you've already mastered recognition, just switch to production. I use iKnow! which is really based on production and hits you with the english meaning and you have to type in the word in Japanese. I also write the word in kanji down on paper as I do this. It's pretty tough but I'm almost finished with Core 6000 (at least adding new words).

ankidroid + whiteboard feature + stylus

just carry the device everywhere with you and practise writing.

If you care about legibility and have the money you can get samsung devices with wacom digitisers built in like the Galaxy Note 2 or Galaxy tab 10.2.

but just a plain ol stylus is good enough for me. Nexus 7 is cheap as well as having a big enough screen to write comfortably while preserving portability.

Thank you guys for your answers!
I decided to go for cramming Core 2000 going kana - kanji.
After that I'm going to start transcribing stuff.
Wish me luck!

howtwosavealif3 Wrote:You have to practice kakitori where you go from hiragana to kanji. There's also mcd format which is like
Front: 邪__or 邪ま
Back: 邪魔

Try googling 書き取り

I personally have my heisig anki deck in kakitori format and for words I have trouble with I also make a mcd format card.
since you read well you should look into the mcd format!! as far as upping your skills fast, mcd is the only thing I think.
also mcd is really useful for yojijukugo but you shouldn't focus on that now. there's a plug-in for MCDs to save you time.

are they going to take mad points if you write everything in hiragana ? lol well it'll make it mad hard to read. I feel like as long as you hvae enough kanji there it should be okay (not every word that can be kanji doesn't have to be written in kanji(

This actually works really well. I like to add a small sentence and blank out the kanji I want to learn to write. Over time you get used to writing it well. I would love to have some automated way of showing stroke order on the answer field as well (or create another field just for correct stroke of that particular kanji). That would be swet.

Zorlee Wrote:Thank you guys for your answers!
I decided to go for cramming Core 2000 going kana - kanji.
After that I'm going to start transcribing stuff.
Wish me luck!

Transcribing really trains the listening/production and understanding skills for Japanese. Good luck with your goal!

P.S. I'm working on a business that deals with transcription. Hopefully it leads somewhere good.

ta12121 Wrote:

howtwosavealif3 Wrote:You have to practice kakitori where you go from hiragana to kanji. There's also mcd format which is like
Front: 邪__or 邪ま
Back: 邪魔

Try googling 書き取り

I personally have my heisig anki deck in kakitori format and for words I have trouble with I also make a mcd format card.
since you read well you should look into the mcd format!! as far as upping your skills fast, mcd is the only thing I think.
also mcd is really useful for yojijukugo but you shouldn't focus on that now. there's a plug-in for MCDs to save you time.

are they going to take mad points if you write everything in hiragana ? lol well it'll make it mad hard to read. I feel like as long as you hvae enough kanji there it should be okay (not every word that can be kanji doesn't have to be written in kanji(

This actually works really well. I like to add a small sentence and blank out the kanji I want to learn to write. Over time you get used to writing it well. I would love to have some automated way of showing stroke order on the answer field as well (or create another field just for correct stroke of that particular kanji). That would be swet.

There's a plugin for that on anki

Doing a lot of kana->kanji or audio->kanji will help your writing a lot. I did it for a couple of years until I just burned out on the sheer number of cards I had to keep up with. Reps take too much time if you do full sentences, so focusing just on the vocab is probably the smart way to go about it.

Also, keep a written journal/diary if you have the patience for it. That will help both your writing and your penmanship. If you're stuck for ideas, there's 日本語日記ノート. The book is relatively basic in its approach, but it's good study material nonetheless if you want to keep a diary, 日本語-style. You'll be talking about the weather and the food you ate just like a JPop idol.

Also, you know, 書道. You're in Kyoto, so there should be no shortage of places to learn it. I've done it for a number of years, and it also helps a lot in penmanship. It's not a fast way to learn how to write, but I enjoy it.

Finally, immersion. Just stop writing on paper in English. When you want to write a memo, do it in Japanese. Even it it means spending an extra minute to look up the words, it's worth it. Your brain will get the message.

If you want to get fancy, grab a fudepen. I really like the Sailor Profit fudepens, because they're easy to carry around and have a decent brush on the end. Fudepens make it fun.

Yah, there was a 書道 class offered for one day, a shame that it's not an actual course, here at my university, and I definitely think that it'll help you with your handwriting. I'm sure you're probably being very humble. 習うより慣れろ。

rich_f Wrote:Also, you know, 書道. You're in Kyoto, so there should be no shortage of places to learn it. I've done it for a number of years, and it also helps a lot in penmanship.

How much does it typically cost?

This is what you are looking for: http://www.nowpro.co.jp/products/game/kaitei/

shinsen Wrote:

rich_f Wrote:Also, you know, 書道. You're in Kyoto, so there should be no shortage of places to learn it. I've done it for a number of years, and it also helps a lot in penmanship.

How much does it typically cost?

Depends on who's teaching and where you're taking classes. When I was at Yamasa in Okazaki, there was a 書道 group that met every few weeks, and it was free. (I think? I can't remember now.) We had a teacher who was really good, and who helped me a lot, because he suggested we all try to get more artistic with our 書道. He showed us a lot of interesting ways to write kanji in an artistic way that doesn't really fit into the usual pigeonholes of 草書、行書、楷書、etc. It was eye-opening.

Here in the states, I pay anywhere from $50 or so a month for 4 lessons to $20 per session (2 different teachers.) It depends on the teacher and how long the class is, etc. Generally, though, I pay around $10-$15/hr., and this is usually for small group lessons. (Like 2-5 people, tops. Usually 2-3 people.)

When I have time again in November, I'm going to start back up and get back to learning 江戸文字, which is the script you often see on Sumo signs and at Kabuki theaters. It's hard, but interesting.

Are there kana to kanji decks in anki? Most I've downloaded are focused on practicing reading kanji. If there is a deck please let me know. I'm working through Genki 1, and I also have iknow so either of those decks will be good

Quick and dirty method: Create a model where the reading field becomes the front side of the card, and the "question" (or sentence full of kanji you were testing in the original model) becomes the answer. Then you can just mass-create a bunch of production-model cards from your deck with one or two clicks.

[s0apgun]

http://www.skritter.com/

Available on iPhone too.

Skritter looks pretty cool, just from checking the demo out.

Hashiriya Wrote:This is what you are looking for: http://www.nowpro.co.jp/products/game/kaitei/

have you or has anyone tried this game? thoughts?