So... Any silverspooners out there? What are the differences between old silverspoon and Neutrino? Also any of you Silverspooners blogging about Neutrino? I'd love to read about it. thanks.

s/Nuetrino/Neutrino/

Had to go and google what this Neutrino is. My only impression is, that was a lot of writing to say a whole lot of nothing.
You might have some trouble finding Silverspooners though. It seems the few blogs that were tracking their progress have stopped updating a long time ago.

I found this funny, coming from a user named quark.

Cacawate Wrote:I found this funny, coming from a user named quark.

Well it's good that you're being positive since his post is slightly negative.

Me, I'm kinda neutral to all of this but I guess we don't need to be isotopic.

quark Wrote:My only impression is, that was a lot of writing to say a whole lot of nothing.

Welcome to AJATT.

It's rather vague even by Khatz standards. It's not exactly clear what's being improved. Then again, the description of the original SilverSpoon was always vague, too, and seems the Vanilla version still suggests a budget of $150~$250 a month for purchasing Japanese media, which I always thought was completely ridiculous. I already have more Japanese media than I know what to do with right now, looking only at what is (legally) freely available, so never really understood why that was necessary.

Khatz/AJATT sort of lost me way back when reading one of his many motivational pages. If I recall correctly he asserted he took college courses where he only took notes in Japanese *and* only bought Japanese textbooks. This was supposedly when he was still in his learning phases... but in order to accomplish that feat there's no way you could be less than adept, if not expert, at the language to begin with (if passing the classes is any kind of priority). Kind of killed his credibility that average Japanese learners could relate to his experience at all.

I have nothing against AJATT nevertheless, just relating the impression I got from spending about a day on the site.

TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:Me, I'm kinda neutral to all of this but I guess we don't need to be isotopic.

Yeah, when you talk about Neutrino, it can't be positive or negative because there's no charge. And if you want to know the current state like where it's going, it's a superposition of all possibilities.

Chigun Wrote:Khatz/AJATT sort of lost me way back when reading one of his many motivational pages. If I recall correctly he asserted he took college courses where he only took notes in Japanese *and* only bought Japanese textbooks. This was supposedly when he was still in his learning phases... but in order to accomplish that feat there's no way you could be less than adept, if not expert, at the language to begin with (if passing the classes is any kind of priority). Kind of killed his credibility that average Japanese learners could relate to his experience at all.

I have nothing against AJATT nevertheless, just relating the impression I got from spending about a day on the site.

I read somewhere in his blog that he had Japanese friends. Quite a lot of advantage for someone who advocates monolingual techniques *during that time*, eh?

*Edit*: I couldn't word it properly.

I heard that he has Japanese children. If that doesn't remove any remaining shred of credibility he has left, I don't know what would.

magamo Wrote:

TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:Me, I'm kinda neutral to all of this but I guess we don't need to be isotopic.

Yeah, when you talk about Neutrino, it can't be positive or negative because there's no charge. And if you want to know the current state like where it's going, it's a superposition of all possibilities.

Nice uncertainty principle joke there; it seems fitting for this thread. By the way, it's an absolute pleasure to see you again, magamo.

I'll just add that we haven't heard anything from long-time Silverspooners at all http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=4496 and from what I can tell noone knows of any people who kept up with the program for >6 months.

Edit: Oh and has been mentioned many times before in other threads, if you use for example Icecream's list of learning material http://icecream-llr.blogspot.co.uk/2012/...anese.html and Nukemarine's beginner guide you have such an immense wealth of free and effective learning material that there really is no need for Silverspoon or the like. Provided you actually have a true drive/motivation to learn Japanese, and if you haven't, it's very likely that you're better off choosing to pursue something that feels more relevant to you. That's how simple it is really. AJATT and similar sites just pour a lot of bullshit on top of these simple things, and it's no good for anyone. AJATT in particular uses needless "motivational" pep talk that pushes people who feel uncertain into thinking Japanese is worth more to them than it really is and in doing so tries to remove them from realistic thinking. This is the core of why AJATT ought to be avoided. Seriously, ***** that demagogical jive.

Cacawate Wrote:Nice uncertainty principle joke there; it seems fitting for this thread. By the way, it's an absolute pleasure to see you again, magamo.

Why, thank you. Nice to see you again too!

I always hear about the website, and I was curious about Silverspoon. It kind of seemed like a lot of talking about small things like motivation and nothing about actually studying the language.

I've read through that guy's site before, but I went back again just now to read about this. Nothing I've seen on his site is helpful, and the guy is unbearably not funny and borderline infuriating.

Long ago, before Kenyans ruled America, there was a piece of software called Khatzumemo.
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blo...se-you-for

WHAT?@!

Surreal Wrote:Edit: Oh and has been mentioned many times before in other threads, if you use for example Icecream's list of learning material http://icecream-llr.blogspot.co.uk/2012/...anese.html and Nukemarine's beginner guide you have such an immense wealth of free and effective learning material that there really is no need for Silverspoon or the like.

I'd second that, and add that it doesn't really take all that much time before you find yourself with more native material than you know what to do with. Maybe a week's worth of digging around and downloading (if that)? The time that something like AJATT is supposed to save you is not worth the money you'll spend on it.

I think what AJATT did best was to introduce people with low success with language learning to new methods, more simpler and fun methods that still prove to be more effective. Yes, there are a lot of great resources here that aren't on his site, but he's responsible for having introduced a lot of people to places like this with his encouraging.

It's sad to see that SilverSpoon now seems to be taking over people's idea of what AJATT is. When it was just the articles and not many products, I felt that the main message was along the lines of "Spend lots of time exposing yourself to Japanese and make sure it's fun." It should still be, but with all this commercial and urging for the products on the main page it now looks like just another service. This and the fact that the articles are messy ramblings for the most part doesn't make the site very believable anymore.

TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:I think what AJATT did best was to introduce people with low success with language learning to new methods, more simpler and fun methods that still prove to be more effective. Yes, there are a lot of great resources here that aren't on his site, but he's responsible for having introduced a lot of people to places like this with his encouraging.

I certainly owe a lot of my current approach to Khatz's initial encouragement and public guidance. And yes, it's how I ended up here. I have nothing against him, and I totally understand his desire to earn a living doing what he loves. (I certainly hope to find some way to use my Japanese skills in my job starting next year.) I just think it's misguided and unnecessary.

OTOH, I'm a lifelong autodidact/DIYer posting to a group of other autodidacts. So maybe we're not the best bunch to comment on something like SilverSpoon. It wasn't designed for us, and Khatz is quite clear on that point.

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:I certainly owe a lot of my current approach to Khatz's initial encouragement and public guidance. And yes, it's how I ended up here.

Same here. A few of his articles were very motivating for me as well, and I sometimes still think about them when I'm have a "down" day. Can't say that I visit the site anymore though.

TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:people with low success with language learning

TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:looks like just another service.

Precis, as they say in your country. I think you put two and two together. The inspirational stuff is basically marketing. It's a product that fills a niche.

I took Japanese at a US college and my classes were filled with people in "Evangelion" and "Dragon Ball Z" shirts. They were learning Japanese specifically for anime-manga-games. These people fail to learn Japanese at a rate of around 99%+ for a couple of reasons. First, college classes are actually useless (Khatz is right about this and it's a major point of attack for him). Second, these people have very low motivation. The reason for that is because they watch dubbed anime and read translated manga and end up satisfying their Japanese media consumption without having to learn Japanese.

It's a huge niche and Khatz is in the perfect spot with the perfect message. Attack the common enemy - "school sucks!". Market yourself as a role model - "I became fluent in Japanese in 18 months!". Pander to your audience - "you can learn Japanese doing nothing but playing games, watching anime and reading manga!". And finally, sell your services to people with low motivation - "I will feed your anime to you with a silver spoon!" It's perfect. I'm not being sarcastic, really. It is perfect, for the target audience it is aimed at.

TwoMoreCharacters Wrote:I think what AJATT did best was to introduce people with low success with language learning to new methods, more simpler and fun methods that still prove to be more effective. Yes, there are a lot of great resources here that aren't on his site, but he's responsible for having introduced a lot of people to places like this with his encouraging.

It's sad to see that SilverSpoon now seems to be taking over people's idea of what AJATT is.

I couldn't agree more. I do absolutely consider myself to owe Khatzumoto, because I didn't really believe I could learn a language, certainly not Japanese with all its incomprehensible squiggles. There was no doubt in my mind I wanted to learn Japanese, I just didn't think I could. Funnily enough, my flatmate reacted similarly when she saw me practising kanji, it looked interesting, but oh, no, she was sure there was just no way she could ever do that...and she was a language student who knew fluent Spanish and German, and was quite advanced in French. The writing system can seem a really impenetrable barrier, even for people who have had previous success with languages.
Not only his motivational writing, but some of the practical advice has helped, too, after all, it was where I learnt about RTK, this site, what a SRS was and how to use one.

So, I still link the site, among others, to people who say 'I want to learn Japanese, how should I start?', since I myself am grateful to the person who linked me there when I asked the same question. It just makes me kind of sad that I now have to add 'but don't buy anything, unless you really want to', I feel kind of uncomfortable to send people there because of it.

prink Wrote:I've read through that guy's site before, but I went back again just now to read about this. Nothing I've seen on his site is helpful, and the guy is unbearably not funny and borderline infuriating.

Yeah, I really get mad when I read Khatz. Somehow he gives me the same reaction as when I watch Carlos Mencia, Sean Hannity, or The View. And it's JUST his writing style. I don't know what about it gets to me so much.

prink Wrote:I've read through that guy's site before, but I went back again just now to read about this. Nothing I've seen on his site is helpful, and the guy is unbearably not funny and borderline infuriating.

Long ago, before Kenyans ruled America, there was a piece of software called Khatzumemo.
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blo...se-you-for

WHAT?@!

His sentence method was surely a major influence on a lot of people here. Yeah it started with antimoon, but he presented it in a more modern and relatable way.

Yes he rambles too much, and yes he's shamelessly greedy, but once in a while he'll say something neat.

The joke is Barack Obama is half Kenyan.

shinsen Wrote:I took Japanese at a US college and my classes were filled with people in "Evangelion" and "Dragon Ball Z" shirts. They were learning Japanese specifically for anime-manga-games. These people fail to learn Japanese at a rate of around 99%+ for a couple of reasons.

Two years of study in a foreign language is a basic requirement for most college degrees. Not everyone takes Japanese classes for the sole reason of becoming fluent.

shinsen Wrote:First, college classes are actually useless (Khatz is right about this and it's a major point of attack for him).

Not true at all. I self-studied before taking second-year Japanese at my school. Being able to learn in a class environment and ask my professors questions (even if they weren't directly related to coursework) greatly benefited my Japanese. If you took a Japanese course and didn't benefit, my guess is that: A) You took a course that was below your level and should have taken a placement test first; B) You didn't try to make much of it; C) You went to a school with a bad Japanese program.

quincy Wrote:The joke is Barack Obama is half Kenyan.

Obviously, but why is it in the middle of that article? Is he stuck in a time warp? Can he not escape 2008? I don't like Obama as a president, but I don't like the way right-wing nut jobs continue to beat this dead horse and try to make him the other. Regardless of intent, it demonstrates a certain level of ignorance on his part, but it isn't just that one quote. The first two comments on that post say it all.

-How is this supposed to convince people to join for the new version if you don’t even concretely say what’s different?

-Either you haven’t read enough of AJATT or you’re dumb. People are convinced, believe me.

The first comment nails it. About 10-20% of what he says is actually relevant to the program he's trying to push, and even in that 10-20%, he is beyond ambiguous. Then I saw that second quote and realized that it must be a cult for people who have failed to learn Japanese in one form or another. There is no other explanation for why people would blindly follow something like this.