They are neighbouring countries, and share similar cultures and religions (e.g. Buddhism), but about third of the Korean population are Christians (14 millions?), while in Japan they consistute no more than %2 of the population!

In just over 50 years, one church in Korea has grown from five people meeting in its founding pastor's home, to a membership of more than 750,000 people. It means that the church, in Seoul, has more members than some entire denominations in Europe!

Is it the Japanese mentality itself that is hindering more people from coming to Christianity, as a mission leader says?

Are there any studies on this?

It seems that Christianity did sort of take off in Japan at first, but then things went horribly wrong. This seems to be a decent overview of it: http://www.omf.org/omf/japan/about_japan...y_in_japan

But basically, Christianity was pretty much banned in Japan for a really long time, and that likely prevented it from really gaining a foothold.

Couldn't be happier that Christianity has failed in Japan.

TheVinster Wrote:Couldn't be happier that Christianity has failed in Japan.

You're happy thousands of Japanese people got murdered and had their most basic human rights suppressed for a few hundred years?

One word, 踏み絵

kitakitsune Wrote:

TheVinster Wrote:Couldn't be happier that Christianity has failed in Japan.

You're happy thousands of Japanese people got murdered and had their most basic human rights suppressed for a few hundred years?

No sorry for ignorance. More like I meant it that, as an American, Christianity plays too much of a role in politics. I'm sure there are many factors affecting Japan's politics but I'm happy Christianity isn't an imposing one.

The Japanese really aren't accepting of any religion these days. A lot of religious groups, including Buddhist groups, tried to help in Japan after the tsunami but were met with resistance, and groups that tried to proselytize (or perform funerals) were treated harshly. Even some religious groups that weren't proselytizing and wanted to help clean up debris were turned away by certain communities. And not even just funky new Buddhist groups, traditional ones as well.

But, part of it might be a community thing (even if the priest of the local temple died and the temple was destroyed, people felt uncomfortable having other priests step in).

Almost everyone in Japan participates in religious ceremony, but very few people have a belief in religious doctrine.

One reason Christianity hasn't taken off might be that it's hard to fit proselytizing into everyday culture. It's pushy by nature, and being pushy is frowned upon by the Japanese.

And yes, I'm another who is glad that there is very little Christianity in Japan.

Hyperborea Wrote:

kitakitsune Wrote:

TheVinster Wrote:Couldn't be happier that Christianity has failed in Japan.

You're happy thousands of Japanese people got murdered and had their most basic human rights suppressed for a few hundred years?

The argument that you are making doesn't make any sense. Are you glad that Christianity was foisted upon a number of populations around the world by European Christian missionaries? Well, if so, then you're also saying that you're happy about the murders, oppression, torture, and slavery carried out in the church's name to bring that about. Right? If you believe what you stated above this follows logically from that.

I understand vinster's follow up but it came off to me that vinster was happy about the oppression of hundreds of thousands of Japanese people. One of the prime reasons Christianity failed in Japan.

Anyway to move the discussion on, I think Christianity took off in Korea as a backlash against Japanese imperial rule and all the state Shinto stuff forced on the Korean people by the Japanese.

Maybe it's because Japanese don't like Koreans and vice versa.

Koreans won't buy Japanese consoles (the PC is more popular as
a gaming platform because it's not Japanese).

Japanese won't follow the most widely practiced religion of Korea these days.
It evens out if you think about it :-p

I'm also glad. I consider it positive if people are free to follow whatever religion they want, and accept part of it often involves trying to bring others into their religion, but I think it'd be dreadfully boring if everywhere there was the same religion. Part of the appeal of Japan to me originally was precisely that it was a non-Christian country, I want to see how that is reflected in people's attitudes, and in the literature (Christianity is such a strong influence in English literature) - it's something different.

Maybe it is partly because of the tension between Korea and Japan, that seems possible. I suppose it doesn't really fit well with the religious traditions of Japan, they're quite different. The trappings of Christianity just seem to be used in Japanese media as something exotic, perhaps it simply doesn't feel Japanese. And of course, whenever they're looking to come up with an 'evil religion' in videogames etc., it's Christianity it gets based on (that's partly due simply to the medieval Western aesthetic of many JRPGs I think, and they're not always evil, though pretty frequently are. Come to think of it, it's quite common for them to use a Goddess, and not a God, maybe owing to Shinto and Amaterasu).

The Christian population might be quite small in Japan, yet it didn't stop the Japanese Jehovah's witnesses from knocking on my door, nor did it keep the gaijin Mormons at the train station at bay back when I lived in Hokkaido.

Just piping in, but it also want to add that as an American I am glad Christianity has no hold here, but I creates for some weird situations. When I was out with a friend around New Years near Yoyogi/Harajuku, there were christians out there with signs, preaching, yelling, holding signs, pushing pamplets and bibles into peoples hands. Mind you, they were doing this in front of the large temple that people were going to pray to. When I explained to my friend that I didn't like that stuff she had a bit of trouble understanding why. Her family is Soka Gakkai though and doesn't do the shinto rites so it could have been that too, but she had trouble understanding my view that I thought it was too forward and in really bad taste. It'd be like muslims going and standing in front of christian churches and handing out the Koran and trying to convert them.

As to why they never got a hold. The slaughter of Christians some many centuries ago probably has something to do with it plus the strength of the emperor's status as a god. The likewise never occurred in Korea and now Catholicism is the national religion.

six8ten Wrote:The Christian population might be quite small in Japan, yet it didn't stop the Japanese Jehovah's witnesses from knocking on my door, nor did it keep the gaijin Mormons at the train station at bay back when I lived in Hokkaido.

As someone who had (tried to have been) raised a Jehovah's Witness, I can tell you that those people have very little choice as to whether or not they go knock on doors. They are pressured into it, absolutely have to report how many hours they spend, and if they don't spend enough time, they are lectured and further pressured. Oh, and face possible ostracism from friends and family.

Er, anyway, I was quite surprised when many of the Japanese people I had met seemed to have very little knowledge of religion. A lot of them go to church with their host families, but I think for them it's more a social thing than actual worship. I had asked a few what their religion was, and they simply told me that they weren't sure. It's quite different from North America, where everyone, even agnostics, have an answer.

Hyperborea Wrote:

ahibba Wrote:Is it the Japanese mentality itself that is hindering more people from coming to Christianity, as a mission leader says?

It might be that the "Japanese mentality" is saving the Japanese people from "coming to Christianity".

TheVinster Wrote:Couldn't be happier that Christianity has failed in Japan.

I'm not Christian, but I thought we are on a forum with matured people, no one asked you for your personal opinion. Please keep it on topic, I think you know that you're starting a little war.

Back on topic, I think this is an interesting question and I've always thought this is because of the Japanese mentality toward change, maybe it's just that the Korean are more open to foreign ideologies?

Edit: Also, wasn't Christianity banned in Japan? This can be a factor too.

undead_saif Wrote:I'm not Christian, but I thought we are on a forum with matured people, no one asked you for your personal opinion. Please keep it on topic, I think you know that you're starting a little war.

So... We can give our personal opinions about anything else without being asked, but we need a permission to say something about Christianity?

People asked their opinion when someone said AKB48 was a piece of sh*t, or someone else criticized an anime or a drama? Should we only care about little wars caused by religion freaks? Would you consider us immature if we said something about the Roman gods or the Egyptian gods or any of the other 5 billion of religions or any other kind of fiction or idols?

I guess now you know another reason why smart people despise religions...

awaken Wrote:

undead_saif Wrote:I'm not Christian, but I thought we are on a forum with matured people, no one asked you for your personal opinion. Please keep it on topic, I think you know that you're starting a little war.

So... We can give our personal opinions about anything else without being asked, but we need a permission to say something about Christianity?

People asked their opinion when someone said AKB48 was a piece of sh*t, or someone else criticized an anime or a drama? Should we only care about little wars caused by religion freaks? Would you consider us immature if we said something about the Roman gods or the Egyptian gods or any of the other 5 billion of religions or any other kind of fiction or idols?

I guess now you know another reason why smart people despise religions...

You should care because it will spam this topic and it will be annoying to see religious discussions on an irrelevant topic. I'm also fed with people always turning the discussion into this whenever the topic has anything to do with religions, and so it's immature, it's like the 'new trend'.

[s0apgun]

Guns!

[Zgarbas]

awaken Wrote:I guess now you know another reason why smart people despise religions...

Oh that is such
... ugh.

Look, there's a difference between insulting a band and insulting people's belief. Religious topics often turn to flame wars thanks to people that make comments like this.

Seriously, discuss the topic with as little religions/non-religious bias as possible and it's all good. But what you're doing here is actively insulting people for their beliefs. Stop that, go to the corner and think about what you've done, then return and discuss manners in a less flame-war instigating manner.

There are some people in Japan who believe in Ameterasu and her younger sister Jesus Christ.
http://video.qip.ru/video/view/?id=v13405213e3a
There are others that say Jesus died in Aomori:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aomori_Pref...ave_legend

I'm actually writing a scholarly historical research paper on the YMCA in Meiji Japan. The short answer is that Japan was able to resist Western imperialism better than China or Korea. I'm about to go to bed, but I'll check this thread tomorrow for any follow up questions.

And no, I'm not religious, so please don't try to debate theology with me.

EDIT
Here's a brief excerpt from my paper for those interested:

After having been banned for more than 200 years, Christianity was reintroduced to Japan in 1854 after Commodore Matthew Perry forcefully opened Japan’s borders to American trade through the Kanagawa Treaty, the first of several unequal treaties between Japan and Western nations. Christianity was initially met with resistance by the Tokugawa Shogunate, but regime change in 1868 set Japan down a path of rapid industrialization and modernization, fueled by the urgent need for treaty revision and a fascination with Western culture and technology. In 1873, the newly formed Meiji government officially lifted the Tokugawa ban on Christianity, and for many Japanese, Christianity became a means to learn English and acquire Western knowledge. Consequently, Christianity thrived in Japan for a short period during the 1870s and 1880s, but by the 1890s, the growth of Christian missions was once again on the decline. One of the major contributing factors to this decline was the modernization of Japanese politics and growing nationalist sentiment.

Through a combination of Western ideas and Japanese culture, the Japanese government forged a new national identity that served to unify the nation around the emperor. Between 1868 and 1890, the Japanese government established a series of laws that laid the foundation for what historians would later refer to as “State Shinto,” at the center of which was a radical new interpretation of traditional Shintoism as a non-religious government institution. State Shinto served as the dominant ideology of Meiji Japan, emphasizing loyalty to the state and divine reverence for the emperor. By 1890, the Japanese government had established an education and propagation system that allowed State Shinto to reach all aspects of civilian life while limiting the reach of competing ideologies, such as Buddhism and Christianity, by law. The 1890 Meiji Imperial Rescript on Education, for example, prohibited religious teachings in government schools, and while the 1890 Meiji Constitution guaranteed religious freedom to an extent, this freedom was confined “within limits not prejudicial to peace and order and not antagonistic of their duties as subjects.” In other words, religious freedom was largely contingent on state loyalty and emperor worship.

Zgarbas Wrote:Look, there's a difference between insulting a band and insulting people's belief.

Could you explain what's the difference?

My belief is AKB48 is great. Other people said AKB48 is a piece of shit. (And then no one started a flame-war, by the way.)

It's a shame that a forum full of clever people is moderated by you. Go and censure people for saying something bad about a thousands-years-old fiction book, while you don't care about the rest of critiques... Keep up the good work. I'm leaving now.

this entire thread assumes that if christianity in particular is made available to people, it will naturally flourish. the japanese already have a monotheistic religion which is quite well established (buddhism)...as well as all the new-agey stuff found in shintoism. stilted ying and energies yang. isn't it possible that those two are already filling people's demand for group spiritual activity. the adult japanese people I know outside tokyo are very spiritual and mention kami-sama regularly...they just do it outside of the christian worldview.

many christians will think these people are going to suffer in the afterlife and that's what's wrong with western religions... sectarian provincialism. the buddhists wouldn't think that about you.

Describing Buddhism as a "monotheistic" religion is a big stretch.

yudantaiteki Wrote:Describing Buddhism as a "monotheistic" religion is a big stretch.

I think "big stretch" is a very generous way of putting it. Different varieties of Buddhism are either atheistic or polytheistic (Japanese Buddhism is mostly polytheistic), but I don't think any type of Buddhism is monotheistic.

I don't know about 100 years, ago, but nowadays most Japanese are all about hassle-free religion - throw a coin in the box, dangle a talisman from your turn signal lever, clean the family grave once a year. Christianity requires may too much commitment for modern Japanese people.

kitakitsune Wrote:I understand vinster's follow up but it came off to me that vinster was happy about the oppression of hundreds of thousands of Japanese people. One of the prime reasons Christianity failed in Japan.

Oh, come on. It was obvious what vinster meant. Someone can be glad about a current state of afairs without being glad about (or even knowing about) how they got that way. If I say I'm happy Japan didn't win WWII, that doesn't mean I'm happy two of their cities were flattened.

[ファブリス]

Well, OP you knew where this thread was going. No surprise here I'm afraid.

EDIT: That said, those who have nothing to say on topic, please go to reddit.com/r/atheism, there you can circlejerk about Christianity all day long.