Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about shooting for １級 sometime in the not too distant future, and I'm trying to get a feel for what I need to do.

I'm assuming the listening and kanji parts aren't going to be the problem. I do tons of listening and conversation, so that improvement will probably take care of itself. I've done RtK1, still do reviews, and am expanding the kanji I know through vocabulary study a bit.

So I guess, as far as things to learn, that leaves grammar vocabulary.

I'm comfortable with everything in the first of the three grammar dictionaries (A Basic Dictionary of Japanese Grammar). I'm now working my way through the intermediate one. If I'm fine with everything in those two, how close do you think I'd be to １級 grammar? I'm guessing I'd still have some expressions to learn, but thought maybe the third grammar dictionary would be overkill (looks pretty intensely thorough at a glance). Not sure though.

For vocabulary, I think I've seen estimates of 8-10,000 words, though I'm not sure if that applies to the current version of the test. I'm working through core 6000 at the moment. Assuming I'm confident with all that (plus probably a bit more from words I've come across elsewhere), how much more vocabulary do you think I'd need?

Sorry, I know these are pretty general questions, and it's hard to really say how much for some things, but thanks for any information or advice!

There's a sample test on the JLPT official site for a taste. There's two competing book series (Kanzen Master and Sou Matome, IIRC) that tell you exactly what you need to know for each level of the test with examples. There are also sites on the web that list in detail the requirements for the test, ie, http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/skills/ .

You'll have to go through the bulk of the advanced book to be able to handle N1 grammar.

About vocab - it's hard to say how many words you'll need to know. I would guess at least 10,000+. The general rule of thumb is that when you can pick up the Asahi or Yomiuri shinbun and read the entire front page without having to look up more than 15 words...you are ready for the test.

The number of vocab has increased to ~18,000 for the N1. I would recommend getting the new Kanzen Master books on any area you feel weak in and maybe a vocab book for Japanese college entrance exams since there are a number of words on the test that don't appear in any JLPT prep book.

I never got near 18,000 words by the time I took the test (more like 11,000) but I still got nearly 100% on the vocab section, so it's often just a luck of the draw if what you studied shows up or not.

Taking a sample test is the best way to find out what you need to study. This is what I did, and with targeted studying I was able to go from 50% on the practice test to 80% on the actual test 10 (I think?) months later.

julianjalapeno Wrote:The number of vocab has increased to ~18,000 for the N1.

WTF? When did that happen? I thought they were ditching word lists etc all together in favour of vague competence levels? I find it hard to believe they've doubled the vocab requirement.

@prettyfunbird, the JLPT1 is not to be taken lightly. The fact that you mentioned you'd done RTK1 is a bit of a red flag. Even in the kanji section, remember that you will be quizzed on your ability to read (as in know the reading of) the kanji in the context of words. And they'll pick the most asinine kanji possible to test you. RTK1 is a good start, but nowhere near adequate to pass even this section.

There are literally hundreds of grammar points required. Grab the books and start learning. DOJG is a good series, but it's not aimed at the test, so you'll need to look elsewhere to find out what you need to know. I vaguely remember hearing that not even the advanced one has all the N1 grammar points (and it has many not required for the test).

But anyway all that technical stuff will only get you the language knowledge section. The reading and listening will require a lot of practice. Keep in mind that manga, etc will not prepare you, you need to read essays and editorials and stuff like that.

Thanks for the responses!

Woah, 18,000 words... yikes. I'm having a little trouble imagining how to get even near that number in any kind of efficient manner. How do people do that? After core 6000 I was planning on just making vocabulary lists for new words I come across, but that's just so many words.

I didn't mean RtK would prepare me; I was just quickly mentioning that I didn't think kanji would be the hardest part for me. I know it's a lot more than what you get out of RtK.

I guess with this question I was aiming more at how to get up to par as far as 'language knowledge.' I can imagine the reading and listening will require a lot of practice, but I'm kind of letting that take care of itself for now, since I enjoy both of those.

Thanks for all the info! All very helpful!

zigmonty Wrote:Keep in mind that manga, etc will not prepare you, you need to read essays and editorials and stuff like that.

I mostly read manga, video games, and a handful of editorials and I passed the old JLPT 1.

N2 uses stuff from both DIJG and DAJG, and N1 does as well.

IMO just grab some vocab books and start cramming vocab, learning vocab from wherever you can and plug it in Anki.

I don't know where you are now but it's better to start with N2 first than N1. I thought I would take N1 last year but took N2 instead, which I'm pretty sure I didn't pass.

zigmonty Wrote:

julianjalapeno Wrote:The number of vocab has increased to ~18,000 for the N1.

WTF? When did that happen? I thought they were ditching word lists etc all together in favour of vague competence levels? I find it hard to believe they've doubled the vocab requirement.

I read this in the preface to the new Kanzen Master vocab book. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else, but KM has traditionally been the favored book series for the JLPT, so I'll take their word for it.

I wouldn't worry much about kanji. There are only 6 kanji reading questions on this new test, so as long as you know the jouyou kanji well you'll be set. They don't use any weird animal or vegetable kanji, it's all pretty standard stuff (although maybe with some tricky ateji thrown in).

prettyfunbird Wrote:Woah, 18,000 words... yikes. I'm having a little trouble imagining how to get even near that number in any kind of efficient manner.

I think its less about learning 18,000 and more about learning to read with context. Being able to take a word in a sentence/paragraph/conversation that you don't know, and use context to figure out probably what it means. This is something any native speaker should be able to do.

[Zgarbas]

Practice the ridiculous missing-4-words like questions. Those buggers are awful. (sample test question 6).

prettyfunbird Wrote:I'm comfortable with everything in the first of the three grammar dictionaries (A Basic Dictionary of Japanese Grammar). I'm now working my way through the intermediate one. If I'm fine with everything in those two, how close do you think I'd be to １級 grammar? I'm guessing I'd still have some expressions to learn, but thought maybe the third grammar dictionary would be overkill (looks pretty intensely thorough at a glance). Not sure though.

Have you passed N2? Sounds like your grammar level is below N2 level, rather than between N2 and N1 level. N2 covers most of the stuff in the intermediate book.

To pass N1 you should be completely familiar with everything in all three books. I think the N1 Kanzen Master Book covers more than the advanced dictionary.

Since you're also talking about Core 6000, it sounds like you should be shooting for N2 and not N1.

The advanced dictionary is definitely not overkill for N1, though much of it is basically common sense combinations of other grammar/vocab if you're at the level to take N1.

I think my vocabulary was around 15,000 when I passed the test, the vocabulary section was easy for me but the reading wasn't since I hadn't practised that enough.

If you think the JLPT is hard wait until you try the BJT.

yudantaiteki Wrote:

zigmonty Wrote:Keep in mind that manga, etc will not prepare you, you need to read essays and editorials and stuff like that.

I mostly read manga, video games, and a handful of editorials and I passed the old JLPT 1.

That's... impressive. I wouldn't have thought that'd be enough for even N2.

RPG video games actually have a large amount of text with no furigana and sometimes pretty technical writing.

Yeah, I'm definitely below N2 right now. I'm just thinking ahead. It may seem too far ahead, it just helps me to have an idea of what resources I'm going to use next, even quite a bit into the future. And no, I haven't passed N2. I don't think I have much interest in taking N2, though I might, who knows. I do get that you have to learn the types of questions, so I'll definitely do practice tests/questions, maybe a whole N2 practice test in the near future.

I'm surprised to hear N2 would have much from DAJG. I just looked at a list of N2 grammar points and, at least on first impression, it seemed like around half of it, or maybe a bit more than that, was in DBJG. I imagine a bunch of the remaining half would be covered by DIJG. Ah, but maybe that wasn't for the current N2... not sure.

I can totally imagine plugging away at DIJG and DAJG, plus some of the additional grammar books you've all mentioned. But it's a little harder imagining getting up to 15,000 or more words in any reasonable amount of time. For those of you who've gotten your vocab up there, what did you do exactly? Did you just make your own anki decks with words you came across reading articles and stuff? Or did you do one of those massive anki decks I've seen floating around? Or what?

Thanks again for the comments! It's really helpful.

I passed the old 1級　a few years ago. Then or now, I would have had to look up a lot more than 15 words a page if I was reading the Asahi Shinbun -- most of my reading is novels and manga, and I'm particularly weak on terminology relating to government and politics and economics.

I had a good base of reading competence developed from reading novels, and I worked my way faithfully through the Kanzen Master books to fill in my weak points, and that was enough for me.

prettyfunbird Wrote:But it's a little harder imagining getting up to 15,000 or more words in any reasonable amount of time. For those of you who've gotten your vocab up there, what did you do exactly? Did you just make your own anki decks with words you came across reading articles and stuff? Or did you do one of those massive anki decks I've seen floating around? Or what?

I crammed the old JLPT lists up to JLPT2 level. Just be aware that some of the words won't make any sense out of context (you'll have to look them up and figure out where/how they're used). Since then i've been learning words as i encounter them, and frankly, i'd probably recommend doing that instead. Just make sure you've done enough reading and check your level with practice tests.

To give you a benchmark, I'm about half way into an N1 grammar book and my vocab is somewhere around 10,000 words (hard to judge actually, i'm sure i know quite a few more words than i have in anki). I haven't sat the N1 yet, but i seem to be able to scrape a 60-70% on old JLPT1 grammar and vocab questions. Reading and listening i haven't checked myself on, but i'm guessing i'd fail.

yudantaiteki Wrote:RPG video games actually have a large amount of text with no furigana and sometimes pretty technical writing.

There you go then. I'm not a gamer so i wouldn't know. Anyway, the warning still stands: make sure you've done diverse enough reading. Best way to check if you have is to do a practice test (they're pretty easy to find online).

yudantaiteki Wrote:

zigmonty Wrote:Keep in mind that manga, etc will not prepare you, you need to read essays and editorials and stuff like that.

I mostly read manga, video games, and a handful of editorials and I passed the old JLPT 1.

yudantaiteki, aren't you also studying classical Japanese literature or something? Or did that come after you passed the test?

I think N1 (don't know about the old 1kyuu) will be pretty hard for anyone who isn't yet at the level that they can read magazines/newspapers without too much difficulty and mostly understand drama/anime. Some people who are good at taking exams might manage to scrape through with lower ability though.

As far as strategy goes, first focus on getting your vocabulary up such that you can read, listen and comprehend most things reasonably well (this will probably equate to a passive vocab somewhere in the 10-20k range depending how you count it), which will take as long as it will take. Then if you think you're ready, go through some study materials to learn any outstanding grammar and JLPT vocabulary and do a couple of practice exams. Then try to stay awake on the exam day.

kusterdu Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:

zigmonty Wrote:Keep in mind that manga, etc will not prepare you, you need to read essays and editorials and stuff like that.

I mostly read manga, video games, and a handful of editorials and I passed the old JLPT 1.

yudantaiteki, aren't you also studying classical Japanese literature or something? Or did that come after you passed the test?

I passed JLPT 1 in 2004, before I started grad school.

Reading speed is important too, since you have to read all the passages in a time limit.

zigmonty Wrote:

yudantaiteki Wrote:

zigmonty Wrote:Keep in mind that manga, etc will not prepare you, you need to read essays and editorials and stuff like that.

I mostly read manga, video games, and a handful of editorials and I passed the old JLPT 1.

That's... impressive. I wouldn't have thought that'd be enough for even N2.

I actually never read much either, which explains why I scraped the new N1. Just bits and pieces online + manga, nothing long like essays or novels. Since then I've only read a single short novel cover to cover in Japanese.