I know a thread like this probably existed some way back when, but I searched and couldn't find it, so I thought I'd make a new one."

So I am currently taking a Japanese class at my university. Having had little contact with the R/L Japanese learning community (I've mostly lurked on this forum for the past few years or surrounded myself with like-minded individuals), I was quite taken aback at the reasons people would ascribe for my wanting to learn Japanese.

Now I know that Japanese learning has the stigma of anime/otaku to it, but I didn't know how far this went - and actually, how true.

I myself did indeed come to Japanese through anime, but over the years my interest in it waned. I don't watch much now - there's a few series I watch out for, but even those I haven't finished. Instead, I listen to a lot of music and watch lots of horror (and dramas/movies/TV shows in general), and I read a lot (or at least I'm trying to) and I watch Japanese programs about Japanese culture. I hardly touch anime at all.

So whenever I meet someone and tell them I'm learning Japanese, it really kind of frustrates me when their first response is, "Oh! So you like anime?"

Not that liking anime is a bad thing, of course - I just find it a bit disheartening that the first thing that pops up in someone's head upon hearing this is "learning Japanese = likes anime." My best friend watches WAY more anime than I do, and has absolutely NO interest in learning Japanese at all.

Unfortunately, this stereotype is well earned, at it seems pretty deep-rooted. I'm in second-year Japanese at my University, and I still hear a lot of talk about anime. (I also hear those same people talking about how they're thinking about dropping class, because it's too difficult). I'll be living in a "languages dorm" next year, in a Japanese section, and upon entering the first questions I got where from first year dropouts asking me what anime I've seen. Even my teachers in class continuously tell us, "You've probably heard this in an anime, yes?" or "You've seen this anime, does this look familiar?" or "You'll be able to watch anime without subtitles soon!"

Again, not saying that that isn't a noble goal. Just, there is so many more reasons one would want to learn Japanese that having everyone stop at "Oh, you must like anime," is really frustrating. When I tell people that I don't watch much anime, that I prefer to read Japanese novels (short ones lol) for example, they seem really surprised.

I searched online about this and I knew it was a problem, but I didn't know it would be this prevalent, as to where even native Japanese *teachers* assume all you want to do is watch anime.

I'm sure most of you have encountered something like this, how have you handled it? Where you surprised at all that people assumed you only wanted anime, and where they surprised if you really didn't watch it at all? (was looking at the "Why I Study Nihongo" thread a few days ago, and anime/manga didn't seem like a persistent reason)

You just learn to ignore it after awhile. Anyway, at some point, you'll be saying "I speak Japanese", and not "I'm learning Japanese", so that probably elicits different responses...

Since anime and manga are one of Japan's biggest cultural exports it's no surprise that teachers take pride in it and it's pretty natural to encounter.

And of course people would look at you weird for saying you like short novels better. The only Japanese authors who are even slightly mainstream are Haruki Murakami and Yukio Mishima, and they're not exactly household names.

I think even worse are the people who are like "Well, I study Japanese because I'm into the culture, not like those terrible anime/manga fans," which I often encountered in class.

There's nothing wrong with saying that you're not into it or that people are surprised. (There's certainly something wrong when all the Japanese people online complain that their penpals only want to talk about Naruto, however.)

But just brush it off, there is nothing wrong.

EratiK Wrote:You just learn to ignore it after awhile. Anyway, at some point, you'll be saying "I speak Japanese", and not "I'm learning Japanese", so that probably elicits different responses...

Gotta agree here, it's natural for people to assume you like anime/manga and so forth but that's because that's one of the few things they really know about the Japanese language. I had a friend of mine say "Your learning it because of anime, aren't you?" I said that's what initially got me started and I still do watch it/read manga but I have interests in other areas too.

One thing I've noticed is that, people who watch anime or who are interested in it are probably not learning japanese. It's just one of those things I've noticed, well at least in my school.

Maybe you should start watching more anime, hmm? Earn that stereotype! XD

@LivingNexus LOL. I try, but just like anything unless it's REALLY good I can't get into it, haha. Ghost In The Shell and Evangelion are on my list, tho


Ah, I guess it just kinda frustrates me that to most people "Japanese learning = anime". Although it seems to be pretty true for most people. Guess I should open their eyes to some other stuff Japan has to offer. If they're interested enough lol~

I recently made a post regarding this in the "I study Nihongo because..." thread but it's a good time to bring it up again: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid155388

While you didn't call learning Japanese for anime "shallow", you did call it disheartening which is a nicer way of saying it. You also said that you stopped watching it so you yourself, disapprove it. Granted, that you didn't say that learning Japanese for anime is a non-noble goal, but you did imply that anime is a less noble goal than other ones (light novels).

Conveniently ignoring nadiatim's satisfactory reply to my post, I thought it's worth visiting again the issue: what is a valid reason for learning Japanese (one that won't be called "shallow" and "disheartening" by other people) and what is an invalid reason for learning Japanese?

Here is a template (I made an entry, everyone else can add to it):

NON-SHALLOW/DISHEARTENING (BAD) REASONS FOR LEARNING JAPANESE
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)

SHALLOW/DISHEARTENING (GOOD) REASONS FOR LEARNING JAPANESE
1) Japanese animation (anime)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)

Possible reasons for learning Japanese (non exhaustive list)
Japanese animation (anime)
Japanese comic books (manga)
Japanese drama (TV shows)
Japanese movies
Japanese music
Japanese video games
Japanese books
Japanese career/jobs
Japanese food
Japanese fashion
Japanese girls
Japanese males
Japanese "culture" (term too general. eg. old or new culture? mainstream or non-mainstream?)
For the sake of learning a new language (no reason in particular)


This is to help all future Japanese learners out there who wish to avoid being stereotyped and reduce their chances of being called an "otaku". The only problem with this logic is that once people start avoiding anime and turning to for example, Japanese music, then "Learning Japanese for music" will become the new stereotype ("You're learning Japanese for music? You must be a dirty otaku!").

AkiKazachan Wrote:I myself did indeed come to Japanese through anime, but over the years my interest in it waned. I don't watch much now - there's a few series I watch out for, but even those I haven't finished. Instead, I listen to a lot of music and watch lots of horror (and dramas/movies/TV shows in general), and I read a lot (or at least I'm trying to) and I watch Japanese programs about Japanese culture. I hardly touch anime at all.

So whenever I meet someone and tell them I'm learning Japanese, it really kind of frustrates me when their first response is, "Oh! So you like anime?"

Not that liking anime is a bad thing, of course - I just find it a bit disheartening that the first thing that pops up in someone's head upon hearing this is "learning Japanese = likes anime."

I'm going to need more information before I can judge your reasons for learning Japanese but to preempt, if one of your reasons for learning Japanese is because of Jpop all-girl pop bands (or even "J-rock"), then I would call it disheartening (the same way I would call people who learn Korean for all-girl pop groups like SNSD/Girl's Generation disheartening). As for Japanese horror movies, I would also call it disheartening to a lesser extent, but only because in general, horror movies aren't very good these days. As for TV shows, if you are learning it because of the sappy dramas with pretty boys and girls in it, then I would call that disheartening too and it's unfortunate that the best Japanese TV series cannot compare to American ones.

If you wanted to earn my approval, you should state that you are learning Japanese for things like ancient Japanese feudal-era artwork or traditional Japanese architecture. Or even traditional Japanese music, none of that shallow post-19th century stuff.

Why not find a way to turn that stereotype into a positive thing? http://youtu.be/96FOBFA-ICc

qwertyytrewq Wrote:If you wanted to earn my approval, you should state that you are learning Japanese for things like ancient Japanese feudal-era artwork or traditional Japanese architecture. Or even traditional Japanese music, none of that shallow post-19th century stuff.

I would like to add textiles and carpets as a shallow reason to learn Japanese, as Japan has attempted to market them as part of their Cool Japan campaign.

http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/01/20/cre...an-office/

Why not just be honest and tell them that yes, initially, anime is the reason why you started learning Japanese, but you study it for different reasons now.
Most of the people here seem to be studying Japanese for more than just reason. Even if you are just learning Japanese because you like anime, there's not necessarily anything wrong with it. You're still devoting time and energy to learning something new, which is a fantastic thing.

Honestly who cares what other people think of you for studying Japanese? Does it matter to you that much that people think you watch anime (when you clearly don't)? When did learning Japanese become high school all over again?

Try to think of this dialog as those kids in your high school always trying to one up each other and who made fun of others to boost their confidence:

student a: I learn Japanese for the culture

student b: You fag, I learn Japanese for the ancient art.

student c: Queer! ancient art is for geeks. You should read modern Japanese philosophy. that's budda.

student d: well, I study because I want to watch anime unsubbed.

student a,b,c: haha, faggot!



Everyone has reasons for wanting to study Japanese. It's a shame that many people who don't study Japanese think that the people who do do it for anime, but what are you gonna do? (answer: get over it and quit being a crybaby ).

Sounds like the problem you're having is that your Japanese learning is conflicting with your self-image. You like some anime, but you don't think of yourself as that serious an anime fan, or you don't think of yourself as someone who would make a major life choice (learning a language) based on a few cartoons you like.

But to be frustrated by it shows a lack of confidence, doesn't it? It's like gay people who haven't admitted it to themselves so they act homophobic. If you were really confident that your reasons for Japanese aren't related to anime--more importantly, if you were confident that people wouldn't think of you as an anime dork--then why would it bother you what their initial impression is?

People kind of pick up on this, so if you act too much like 'I'm better than the anime crowd' you're gonna make yourself seem a little silly, right? You should have confidence and say 'Yeah, I've watched some anime I like, and it'll probably be fun to understand it better someday, but that's not really why I'm learning Japanese.'

@Tzadeck You win all the prizes.

Whether you made the homophobic reference because of my high school "drama" or not, I highly appreciate the clear analogy.

i agree with Tzadeck - this seems to be a case of "me thinks he doth protest TOO much!".

Irregardless, I can't see why this situation is in any way frustrating. Who cares what other people think?

;( I feel alone here. I never hear anyone admit my reason.

Once upon a time I started down the path of Japanese because of anime and manga. Primarily because I wanted to scanlate manga and give back to the community. Somewhere along the way this stopped being a good enough reason. Thats when I realized that the only reason I keep going is because I've already gone so far.

I laid a foundation, I put up studs, installed dry wall, pumped insulation, and threw a roof on. I may as well add some windows and a door, decorate the inside, and just live in the dam thing. Its halfway done as it is.

I don't like doing stuff 中途半端.

Who cares what your reason for beginning to learn Japanese was, most native English speakers don't either bother to learn a second language.

Hm. more posts than I thought this would get :p

I'm not trying to be a crybaby, or at least I didn't mean to come off as one, though I probably did - I dunno if just venting about something for a sec should be labelled as being "crybaby"-ish, just something I wanted to complain about for a sec, I'm not dwelling on it or anything

@Tzadeck I do believe I have some self-image perception issues in general, which could have something to do with this. I don't like people thinking I'm something I'm not (or something i don't see myself as/don't want to be seen as). I see a lot of people asking "does it really matter to you that much" and "who cares" and yes, to me, right now, on some level, it does. Perhaps when I grow up more it won't. But it's not bothering me badly, like I said, I'm not dwelling on this, just a trend I noticed that I wanted to complain about for a sec.

@qwertyytrewq Those are all valid reasons for learning a language. I'm sorry if I came across as if learning Japanese because of anime is disheartening - I don't believe that. What I wanted to say (dunno if I did it properly or not) is that I find the assumption that you're only doing it to watch anime frustrating. Not that doing it to watch anime is bad. You can do it for any reason, it's just good that you're learning. But with Japanese in general (at least with the people I've spoken to) there seems to be the assumption that everyone is only doing it for the anime. For some of the people I've met, it seems to be "Oh, you must like anime," and then stop, they don't consider any other reason. And I just wish people would recognize that anime isn't the only thing for everyone it may be for someone, and that's fine, but not for everyone. And some people like anime who don't care for Japanese. So "likes anime" and "learns Japanese" just be assumed to be equal for everyone.

Think that's all I wanted to say really. Dunno if I came across well. Sorry about that. But, like most of you say, it's not that big a deal. Just a little frustration is all, no worries :p

AkiKazachan Wrote:@qwertyytrewq Those are all valid reasons for learning a language. I'm sorry if I came across as if learning Japanese because of anime is disheartening - I don't believe that. What I wanted to say (dunno if I did it properly or not) is that I find the assumption that you're only doing it to watch anime frustrating. Not that doing it to watch anime is bad. You can do it for any reason, it's just good that you're learning. But with Japanese in general (at least with the people I've spoken to) there seems to be the assumption that everyone is only doing it for the anime. For some of the people I've met, it seems to be "Oh, you must like anime," and then stop, they don't consider any other reason. And I just wish people would recognize that anime isn't the only thing for everyone it may be for someone, and that's fine, but not for everyone. And some people like anime who don't care for Japanese. So "likes anime" and "learns Japanese" just be assumed to be equal for everyone.

Think that's all I wanted to say really. Dunno if I came across well. Sorry about that. But, like most of you say, it's not that big a deal. Just a little frustration is all, no worries :p

Oh okay, so you're not really a fan of people who make assumptions. Well, I can get behind that.

But you have to admit, for anyone interested in Japanese, anime is a lot more immediately accessible (pictures, sounds etc) than light novels. Anime is also a lot more mainstream so it's easier to just say "you're learning Japanese? I guess you like anime too" as opposed to "you're learning Japanese? Then that means you must be a fan of traditional Kabuki theater!"

They're assumptions all the same but understandable.

I think the reality is that if things from other cultures had as much of a following in the West as anime does, you'd see the same thing going on. It's the same as someone saying "You're learning French? You must want to go to Paris!" or "You're learning Spanish? You must have family members that are illegal immigrants!" There's more to France than Paris, and there's more to Hispania than, erm, illegal immigration...yeah that one kind of fell apart, didn't it.

My point is, anime is the only aspect of Japanese culture that most people outside Japan are exposed to (except for sushi). So in their minds, "anime" is synonymous with "Japanese." Rather than being frustrated, you should pity them for their cultural ignorance. This will probably make you feel a lot better about yourself :3

LivingNexus Wrote:My point is, anime is the only aspect of Japanese culture that most people outside Japan are exposed to (except for sushi). So in their minds, "anime" is synonymous with "Japanese." Rather than being frustrated, you should pity them for their cultural ignorance. This will probably make you feel a lot better about yourself :3

Sounds silly to me. Most people take up Japan studies because of something like anime. That doesn't mean that people are unaware of anything else that goes on there. It just means that most people study Japanese because they watch anime, so it is easy for a normal person to count 2+2. Just as easy to say that most women like romantic comedies or that most men like to watch sports.

My Japanese interest started with a) playing a game with massive Japanese population and b) watching anime (Moomin as a 3-year-old, Silver Fang when I was 8, Naruto/OP/Bleach when I was 14). Now I have moved on from that sort of thing, but the fact is that I, too, had my interest sparked by anime.

I think of the stigma as a hindrance these days, but the only way to break it is to prove that I'm not bullshitting around with the lucky star/j-rock crap and animecon cosplay.

AkiKazachan Wrote:So whenever I meet someone and tell them I'm learning Japanese, it really kind of frustrates me when their first response is, "Oh! So you like anime?"

Lol, this gave me a good laugh! Here, they mostly response with a "You're doing something stupid or useless" attitude, and sometimes make fun of it mistaking it for Chinese, that's why I don't tell anybody, meh.

AkiKazachan Wrote:Even my teachers in class continuously tell us, "You've probably heard this in an anime, yes?" or "You've seen this anime, does this look familiar?" or "You'll be able to watch anime without subtitles soon!"

I hate it when the teachers follow up with the crap students make about what they study. Can't do anything about it :S

I prefer keeping things that would bring me annoyance to myself, my best friend doesn't know that I'm learning Japanese again, neither people at work. But when I get out of the "study" phase, that is, actually using the language, I'll be more open about it in a normal way, not going around and telling people

Edit: About the reason for studying a language, since when there's noble reasons and silly reasons to learn a language? I don't watch Anime at all, and barely read one Manga, but I find learning a language for interests (like Anime, Manga, food...) is a better reason than to get a better job!
What's wrong with learning a language to understand Anime without subtitles? It's better than wasting time on stupid TV shows or Facebook.

And don't forget the fact that acquiring a new language broadens the horizons of people's minds...

Just tell them you can write/read kanji and they will bugger off. That's what I do always.
"Kanji = not possible to learn for westerners"-mentality. Meh

undead_saif Wrote:

AkiKazachan Wrote:So whenever I meet someone and tell them I'm learning Japanese, it really kind of frustrates me when their first response is, "Oh! So you like anime?"

Lol, this gave me a good laugh! Here, they mostly response with a "You're doing something stupid or useless" attitude, and sometimes make fun of it mistaking it for Chinese, that's why I don't tell anybody, meh.

AkiKazachan Wrote:Even my teachers in class continuously tell us, "You've probably heard this in an anime, yes?" or "You've seen this anime, does this look familiar?" or "You'll be able to watch anime without subtitles soon!"

I hate it when the teachers follow up with the crap students make about what they study. Can't do anything about it :S

I prefer keeping things that would bring me annoyance to myself, my best friend doesn't know that I'm learning Japanese again, neither people at work. But when I get out of the "study" phase, that is, actually using the language, I'll be more open about it in a normal way, not going around and telling people

lolz same here. my best friend doesn't know either. Like you, I want to avoid annoyance

Tori-kun Wrote:"Kanji = not possible to learn for westerners"-mentality.

Omg, I've kinda been wanting to complain about this too, but I know it's been beaten to death in this forum already, lol. Everyone in class always complains (jokingly, usually) about how hard Kanji are (even the teachers sometimes) and how they can't stand them and I'm just in the corner like "...but...but they're so beautiful ;o;" I believe most of them haven't heard of RTK, it's such a shame, I'm so grateful I came across it myself, I don't know what I would have done otherwise (floundered around helplessly, I suppose)

AkiKazachan Wrote:

Tori-kun Wrote:"Kanji = not possible to learn for westerners"-mentality.

Omg, I've kinda been wanting to complain about this too, but I know it's been beaten to death in this forum already, lol. Everyone in class always complains (jokingly, usually) about how hard Kanji are (even the teachers sometimes) and how they can't stand them and I'm just in the corner like "...but...but they're so beautiful ;o;" I believe most of them haven't heard of RTK, it's such a shame, I'm so grateful I came across it myself, I don't know what I would have done otherwise (floundered around helplessly, I suppose)

Yep... Another reason to not tell people you're studying Japanese. It's just so annoying dealing with the anime otaku thing, the kanji is gonna take million years to learn- there's so many of 'em, etc etc