Hi guys! Long time no see!

It's official! I'm moving to Japan in August! =)
I'll be working as a volunteer in 阪南市, 50 min. from 大阪市. (Kansai-ben hell... Sigh)
My contract says 11 months, so I'll be there for quite some time.

Anyway, I've been studying Japanese for 10-11 months (give or take), and have around 8500 sentences + RTK going on in Anki.
I understand quite a bit of Japanese, especially when written down, but my biggest problem is the production part, especially speaking.
It's really weird, I've skyped with a lot of Japanese people lately. Sometimes I can understand everything and respond to what they're saying, but sometimes I just drop out, don't understand a thing and find myself dumbfounded. I guess there's no other option than just to "carry on" with my studying / immersion, but I find it weird that it varies so much case-by-case. Ah, well...

Now, I'm just wondering if you guys could give me some tips on what you'd recommend me to work on before I go. Especially when it comes to speaking.
I'm probably going to add another 2000 sentences or so, but will probably have time to do other things than that as well.
In addition to that - what would you recommend me to do while staying in Japan? I'm going to drop down on adding sentences (max 10 a day), and will do everything I can to hang out with Japanese people as much as possible. Sounds like a plan? No?

And one more thing - please recommend some sweet things to do in the 大阪 area. =)

Thank you!
Geir...

I hope you enjoy your stay in Japan. I've never been to Japan actually but I noticed that since I started talking to actual Japanese people my language ability has increased dramatically. I guess there are just gaps that books don't cover.

The only thing I can reccomend is: don't hold back.
For the longest time I was scared to talk to foreign people. "What if I say something stupid?" "What if I scare them?". --Most Japanese people will find the conversation interesting.

日本語を頑張ってくださいね☆

listen to japanese podcasts... there are a huge variety of them and it should give you a ton of exposure to various vocabularies, speech patterns, and subject matter to make for easier comprehension and ultimately production.

kendo99 Wrote:listen to japanese podcasts... there are a huge variety of them and it should give you a ton of exposure to various vocabularies, speech patterns, and subject matter to make for easier comprehension and ultimately production.

doing that now, getting the transcripts and following the conversation for podcasts

Honestly, the main thing I wish someone had told me when I moved here was that, yes, even I would feel culture shock. Having travelled quite widely and have stayed for extended periods in other countries, I though I'd be immune to it, or that it was just something that Americans from the middle of nowhere suffered from. That wasn't the case. Everyone deals with it in different ways, but most important is to realise that things here aren't better or worse - they are just -different-; look for the reasons behind things.
As for Osaka though, that place rules (er, that is if you like drinking etc, I can't really comment on anything else!). It's my favourite place in Japan.

Other advice... don't be afraid to talk to people. don't automatically hate other foreigners you run into. try not to form a gaijin bubble around yourself. Don't be offended by people expressing surprise that you can use chopsticks. and as for when they complement your Japanese, don't be offended there either; most of the people here have studied English for 6 years and can't speak a word of it, so they know how hard learning a language is and so are genuinely complementing you and encouraging you.
And (if you are a guy) steel yourself for just how drop dead fine the girls are over here!!!
Good luck!

Thank you guys for your replies! =)
I'll definitely do my best to not form a gaijin bubble. I'll be working with two other Norwegians, but will have a lot of spare time, so I'll try to make things happen then.
The thing I've experienced with Skype conversations etc, is that I don't feel like I'm learning that much. Maybe I'm just paranoid, or addicted to my sentences, but it just feels like I'm wingin it when it comes to output and I'm a bit worried about incorporation bad habits etc...

I'd love to hear more from people staying in Japan / have stayed in Japan for a long period of time! =)

Thanks!

Z..

I'm not sure how your workplace is going to be set up, but good luck not getting stuck in a gaijin bubble.

I would guess that a lot of the people here on campus don't even realize that there are foreigners, because they make us take all our classes in one single building, in a small corner of campus that no Japanese people go. Unless we go through some hardcore red tape, we're not even allowed to take real classes -- just the special classes meant for foreigners which are taught in English.

I feel like the only reason we're there is to give the university a reputation for being progressive and international

So my best advice is to become actual friends with Japanese people. I mean people who will talk to you in whatever language they are comfortable with (*cough*Japanese*cough*) and not be constantly asking you questions about English.
It's painfully obvious when you are being used as a "free eikaiwa"

Zorlee Wrote:The thing I've experienced with Skype conversations etc, is that I don't feel like I'm learning that much. Maybe I'm just paranoid, or addicted to my sentences, but it just feels like I'm wingin it when it comes to output and I'm a bit worried about incorporation bad habits etc...

Try to think of speaking more of practising - and improving - what you've learned. You're not going to be able to say "I learnt 50 new words this session," but you will notice measurable improvements in your ability to express yourself over time. It can be tough when you can't express yourself how you want, but don't think in terms of what you can't do, think in terms of what you can do compared to, say, last month.

The best thing you can do is be consistent. Sometimes when I don't have a conversation for a few weeks, I feel like I'm starting all over again. It seems pretty obvious to say it, but the more you speak the better you'll get, so try to approach it with a positive attitude.

If you're studying and reviewing, you'll no doubt notice most of the mistakes you make and learn from them (if your friend doesn't correct them for you). I was so used to hearing だ(よ)ね that I would add it after い-adjectives and plain verb forms almost involuntarily while speaking. I would never have made this mistake in writing, or even 文字チャット, but it was only through speaking that I became aware of it and was able to "train" myself not to do it.

Confidence is also really important, so don't get discouraged by mistakes and other problems. You haven't been studying for long, so you should expect these things, and anything that goes smoothly should be seen as an achievement. I didn't start speaking until after about 14 months, and I haven't been at all consistent since then, so it seems like you're on the right track to me!

mistamark Wrote:Don't be offended by people expressing surprise that you can use chopsticks. and as for when they complement your Japanese, don't be offended there either; most of the people here have studied English for 6 years and can't speak a word of it, so they know how hard learning a language is and so are genuinely complementing you and encouraging you.

Umm, no.
People heap on the 日本語お上手ですね after they hear you just say one word like "konnichi ha". It's oseji at best, like telling an obviously old woman how she looks young. Foreigners who fumble their sushi all over their lap/floor also get 箸お上手ですね.

One shouldn't take offence (it's not intended with any malice), but it is definitely NOT a sincere compliment or an attempt at encouragement.

Asriel Wrote:I would guess that a lot of the people here on campus don't even realize that there are foreigners, because they make us take all our classes in one single building, in a small corner of campus that no Japanese people go. Unless we go through some hardcore red tape, we're not even allowed to take real classes -- just the special classes meant for foreigners which are taught in English.

Every exchange program I've ever heard of, in Japan and in Canada, is like that. They put you in the foreigner friendly classes until your language level is sufficient to take native classes (about JLPT1 / TOEIC score above 700 level generally).

Personally I had no problem avoiding the gaijin bubble when I was an exchange student, but I didn't live in the dorms, I joined a club, I applied for conversation partners, I ate in the cafeteria instead of going to McDonalds, and I studied in the international lounge which always had lots of jp girls come over looking for conversation or subjects to take surveys (rarely guys though).

Everyone I knew who was in a gaijin bubble was in that bubble because they never made an effort.

Jarvik7 Wrote:Every exchange program I've ever heard of, in Japan and in Canada is like that. You are not an international student, you are an exchange student. They put you in the foreigner friendly classes until your Japanese level is sufficient to take native classes (about JLPT1 level generally).

Well then I guess my home university is about a THOUSAND steps forward in that aspect.

The exchange students who come to my school (mostly Korean) are treated just like real students. They register for real classes in the regular way. They get graded on the same grading scale. The only difference is that they have to live in University Housing, and if they want a job, it has to be through the University (visa issues...)

I've tested out of the highest speaking class they offer here. I'm in the highest level kanji class they offer here.** If a student passed JLPT1 and has passed out of all the language courses they offer (not me, but a friend), then why shouldn't they be allowed to take native courses without having to jump through multiple hoops?

**in my experience here, the language courses are quite sub-par. perhaps they know this, and realize that their classes won't prepare you for it.


Edit, in regards to Jarvik7's edit:
I only have classes 3 days a week, and I spend the rest of my time pretty much living at my girlfriend's place. I'd say that most of my time is spend out of the bubble than in. I'm just commenting on how "the man" tries to keep you in.

Are you sure that those Koreans are 交換留学生? Likely they are enrolled as full students.
International student != exchange student

Jarvik7 Wrote:Are you sure that those Koreans are 交換留学生? Likely they are enrolled as full students.
International student != exchange student

Last year, I often hung out (still do, now that they're back) with the Japanese 交換留学生 who came from the university that I am at now to my home university. They had the exact same treatment as full students -- except that they paid their tuition at their home university.

My girlfriend and many of my friends were exchange students at my university. The ones with good English (as judged by TOEIC or TOEFL) got into real classes in addition to their ESL, the ones with poorer English just had ESL at a separate CAMPUS (you think a separate building is bad). There is no point in throwing a student to the wolves. Opening all classes up to students who cannot understand the language and will end up dropping or failing just fills up the limited number of seats for degree students who NEED the course to graduate.

I also had many friends who were international students there for the full 4 year degree and they were treated exactly as regular students, as were my western friends enrolled as 4 year degree international students in Japan. I also knew a number of exchange students at 3-4 other universities in Canada and it was always the same.

If your university requires a lot of red tape for a foreign student registered as an exchange student with >JLPT1 Japanese (certified by test) to take a native class, it's probably because they very rarely have students of such high level. My university in Japan was one of the top schools for language programs and iirc takes the most 留学生 compared to other universities, but we still only had 5 people in native classes the year I graduated the program. Exchange students usually have their own faculty at most universities, and taking courses outside of your faculty (any "real" courses) usually requires some extra paperwork unless there is an established cross-faculty program in place (aka it's a common procedure). If you were enrolled as an international student instead of an exchange student you'd already be in that other faculty and thus no paperwork.

Jarvik7 Wrote:People heap on the 英語お上手ですね after they hear you just say one word like "konnichi ha". It's oseji at best, like telling an obviously old woman how she looks young. Foreigners who fumble their sushi all over their lap/floor also get 箸お上手ですね.

Woohoo! First to catch Jarvik make an error in his Japanese! Can you spot it...

Jarvik7 Wrote:The ones with good English (as judged by TOEIC or TOEFL) got into real classes in addition to their ESL,...

This I can see. My university only admits students with a certain level on TOEIC or TOEFL.

Jarvik7 Wrote:I also had many friends who were international students there for the full 4 year degree and they were treated exactly as regular students, as were my western friends enrolled as 4 year degree international students in Japan.

I was going to say something here, but then I realized that I was just agreeing and saying the same things you did.

Jarvik7 Wrote:...it's probably because they very rarely have students of such high level...

I can agree, this is probably true. Most of the natives I've talked to tell me that students of my program are notoriously horrible at Japanese (often those with -no- experience whatsoever).


All I'm trying to say is -- in my experience, the reason the gaijin bubble only exists because the unseen forces will try to push you into it. Just be conscious of it.

hehe,英語−＞日本語

I've been teaching too many private lessons I guess. That's more a slip of the tongue than a Japanese mistake though

Interestingly, I HAVE gotten 英語お上手ですね, the first time I spoke English to a Japanese person after a few weeks of conversation. Actually (発音きれいだね、英語うまいね etc).

well, let's be honest.
You do have some 英語 that I would consider pretty お上手

さんきゅう
あい　どんと　のー　はう　つー　てーく　ざっと

Lol

I know Jarvik- not a real mistake, but humorous And I agree, your 英語 is pretty 上手。

I've gotten the old 英語お上手ですね as well- after taking a phone call in English around Japanese people- it's like... uhhh, native speaker よ。Maybe it's the shock of actually hearing English spoken the way it's supposed to be.

I guess it's a good thing. If you always speak good Japanese with someone they begin to forget that you're a foreigner, and are shocked when you suddenly burst out into fluent English.

Jarvik7 Wrote:さんきゅう
あい　どんと　のー　はう　つー　てーく　ざっと

nice- but next time in katakana please!

Last time I was in Tokyo, my wife got the "日本語が上手ですね。" from a couple of old ladies. She looked embarrassed when she told them she was Japanese. Yeah, I had a good five to ten minutes of fun with that little incident.

Come to think of it, my second wife felt insulted when she went to the clinic and the admissions nurse seemed shocked that my wife spoke English. We were in Arizona and she looks Hispanic but doesn't speak a lick of Spanish. Guess people have their expectations and are always surprised when you exceed them.

A good way to think of it is as "Wow! You said a Japanese word!" and not "Your Japanese is good!".

Jarvik7 Wrote:A good way to think of it is as "Wow! You said a Japanese word!" and not "Your Japanese is good!".

I've always liked: "Oh shit! The horse can talk!" すごいナ！

Thanks for this post, Zorlee. So inspirational. I would be interested in knowing how you got a job in Japan ?