I should know this, but I don't ----

I'm doing language exchange every week. It's been super fun, and is helping me a lot. I have HUGE holes in my Japanese at the level I'm at, but know enough to still enjoy things.

What I want to know is - What's a good way to respond to compliments. I don't want to sound cocky or whatever. In English, if someone pays me a compliment I usually just say thank you. But I get the impression that this comes off the wrong way in Japanese? Do I just say "いえ　いえ"? I'm not sure how to respond, so I usually say nothing or keep talking about whatever. But I know there are a few socially correct responses for this....

Sorry for the lame question, but I know people here know some good responses. I usually ask my parter about anything, but I'm a little embarrassed to ask her directly for coaching about this. After 4 weeks of repeating the same situation, I figure I should at least learn this little piece of conversational Japanese before the next meeting.

どうもありがとう

Your profile says you're from Colorado. I assume you don't look Asian? Then do what you would normally do; people aren't expect you to act Japanese--they're expecting you to act American, in general.

That's somewhat controversial advice, mind you, but it's worked for me.

One phrase used to brush off a compliment is 「とんでもないです」 or 「私なんか、とんでもないです」.

It's a very good question to ask, and there is no need to feel lame for asking it. In fact I commend you for noticing this respecting the culture and going towards the next step instead of acting like a stupid white man as mafried suggested, take the next step.

Modesty is something everyone should seek, basically when commented on how well your Japanese is (as we all know it sucks). You'd usually decline as you said, then follow up with something (positive or negative, whatever you prefer)
e.g
Negation/Denial of of comment
そうではない・そんなことはあない・とんでもない
followed up by "still got lots to do etc, or whatever"
まだまだ～.
I remember my nakama textbook had a page on the stuff

I prefer to negate with honesty so to speak so I am very critical of myself, that's how I am in English anyway.

I was given advice from a Japanese teacher to say "mada, mada" or "not yet." Also, whenever I compliment a Japanese speaker (in English) they always say "No, no" so I think your iie is fine.

いえいえ seems very popular, and is in fact what I was first taught (I still say it just like that quite a bit). まだまだ is a very popular choice for foreigners when they are complimented on their Japanese ability.

I was also taught that you generally accept a compliment if the person continues to compliment you even as you shy away from it. So if someone tells you your shirt likes nice, you would initially say, "No, no," but if they continued to do it eventually it's okay to (accept it and) thank them.

From my experiences with dating Japanese women, it seems like after about a month into a relationship you can generally just accept compliments from one another (but that could be them adapting to my way of doing things, rather than something natural. I have no idea really).

Edit: Also, another funny piece of advice I was given from my Japanese teacher (a native speaker) was that people compliment you on your language ability less and less, and with different words, as your Japanese gets better. The scale generally goes like this, from you being not very good at Japanese to you being good. 上手　－－＞　うまい　　－－＞　ぺらぺら　－－＞ nothing.

I wonder if any of the native Japanese speakers on this forum agree with this observation?

I complemented a guy on his English in Osaka once by saying 上手 and he told me that it was condescending, haha.

何言ってん~かい野郎　ちげぇ～　俺馬鹿だなぁ

Tzadeck Wrote:いえいえ seems very popular, and is in fact what I was first taught (I still say it just like that quite a bit). まだまだ is a very popular choice for foreigners when they are complimented on their Japanese ability.

I remember that 「まだまだ」 as a response in "Last Friends" in response to being called an athlete. Sounds like I'll add it. Has to be better than 「いえ。そういうのはありえない。」

Tzadeck Wrote:Edit: Also, another funny piece of advice I was given from my Japanese teacher (a native speaker) was that people compliment you on your language ability less and less, and with different words, as your Japanese gets better. The scale generally goes like this, from you being not very good at Japanese to you being good. 上手　－－＞　うまい　　－－＞　ぺらぺら　－－＞ nothing.

I've been making the same observation. Guess I've been getting ぺらぺら more often.

Tzadeck Wrote:I complemented a guy on his English in Osaka once by saying 上手 and he told me that it was condescending, haha.

Well, is it that you said 上手 or that you complimented a guy's English by using Japanese? Makes me wonder if your scale above should include "Good (in English)" at the beginning. Which could be a subtext of "Wow, your attempt at the language is so poor, I better steer the conversation back to your own language before you hurt yourself"

And yes, I'm guilty of complimenting bad English. I do wonder if I'm doing it properly though with regards to Japanese people.

Good thread by the way.

Tzadeck Wrote:The scale generally goes like this, from you being not very good at Japanese to you being good. 上手　--＞　うまい　　--＞ ぺらぺら　--＞ nothing.

Nukemarine Wrote:Makes me wonder if your scale above should include "Good (in English)" at the beginning. Which could be a subtext of "Wow, your attempt at the language is so poor, I better steer the conversation back to your own language before you hurt yourself"

haha so true. And perhaps we should add some to the end as well: --> ぺらぺら　--＞ nothing --> polite specific corrections --> polite mention that you're Japanese is a bit 'off' --> nothing again (assume you're fluent, but have a strange or rude personality)

I suppose the increasing expectations are a compliment...and a burden. I know that some people dumb down their Japanese in certain circumstances in order to receive the benefit of the doubt.

Also, I think it's difficult for learners to pull off super casual, slang, idioms or swear words. The surprised and amused reactions ("Hey, look what this dancing clown can do!") probably shouldn't be taken as a compliment. That language can quickly sound a bit ridiculous or turn some people off. What I sometimes took as positive-reinforcement-smiles I later realized were actually cringe-I'm-embarrassed-for-you smiles. ugh =] It's generally safer to err on the more standard/polite side for awhile imo.

Same in any language?

I fight compliments tooth and nail. I relentlessly refute every element of praise that is directed at me.... this is my ninja way!!

Thora Wrote:Same in any language?

*positive-reinforcement-smile*

Thanks nest0r!
(good thing Japanese is so unique)

mentat_kgs Wrote:何言ってん~かい野郎　ちげぇ～　俺馬鹿だなぁ

Interesting.

This is as difficult as the opposite question, i.e., "How do I compliment her in Japanese?" It depends on context and your character. This kind of thing is very cultural too.

That said, いえいえ + reason why you said the fake "no" in a sentence or two would work in many cases. For example, if someone says your Japanese is good, you can respond:

いえいえ、そんなことないですよ。実際お世辞を言われると日本語でどう答えればいいのか、いつも困ってしまうんですよ。
(Thanks. But, you know, I don't even know how to respond to compliments in Japanese. Haha.)

You can also say a positive thing that fits the context, e.g.,

いえいえ、上手いだなんて。でも（your exchange partner's name）のおかげで以前よりは上達したと思います。これからもよろしくお願いしますね。
(Thanks. You really helped me improve my Japanese. But I know I still have a long way to go. Keep feeding me real Japanese!)

The point is that いえいえ is not necessarily literal. Conversation may proceed as if you just said "no," but it's just a protocol.

Tzadeck Wrote:Edit: Also, another funny piece of advice I was given from my Japanese teacher (a native speaker) was that people compliment you on your language ability less and less, and with different words, as your Japanese gets better. The scale generally goes like this, from you being not very good at Japanese to you being good. 上手　－－＞　うまい　　－－＞　ぺらぺら　－－＞ nothing.

I wonder if any of the native Japanese speakers on this forum agree with this observation?

ぺらぺら is a spoken, informal version of "fluent" (流暢), so it's more than "good" (上手 and うまい). But I don't think there is a big difference between 上手 and うまい except that the latter sounds more casual.

I guess your teacher was assuming students should learn textbook style Japanese first and then go on casual language. People don't choose 上手 because you don't deserve うまい. It's the casualty and such that make us use spoken/informal/casual language. If you're following the typical classroom style learning method, I guess うまい can mean more than 上手 because that means you're now holding a meaningful conversation in informal language. But if you're learning spoken Japanese first like native speakers, the scale should be different.

As for "nothing" in the compliment scale, I totally agree with that. People would say nothing about your Japanese when it's clear that you internalized the language as deeply as native speakers. It's ridiculous to compliment your native-level fluency with words like "good" or "fluent." One of my friends started learning Japanese as a third language in her 20s, and now she's indistinguishable from a native speaker. I might say 上手い and such when she says something in a very clear way, but the same standards are applied to native speakers. I don't want to compliment every single sentence she says.

By the way, you said,

TaylorSan Wrote:I'm doing language exchange every week. It's been super fun, and is helping me a lot.

Why don't you compliment her and see what she says?

So do I gather it's pretty much a no no to say "Oh! Thanks" and move on with the conversation?

georgative Wrote:So do I gather it's pretty much a no no to say "Oh! Thanks" and move on with the conversation?

It depends. In general the less important the thing you compliment is, the more likely they just say ありがとう and move on. Your social rank also affects how they respond to your compliments to a degree because いえいえ etc. belong to words for humbleness or 謙遜 in Japanese. By the same token, your close friends, family members and other people "close" to you would say ありがとう or similar things instead of いえいえ more often than strangers and acquaintances.

sounds really phony to me =(

Oh well. It's their culture. Nothing you can do about it.

ありがとう皆さん

Some good stuff for me to work with here. I really like all the suggestions, and I really like the examples magamo gives. I think having a few expressions for this situation will be nice to keep me relaxed and in the flow (or the closest thing to it). My approach to Japanese (and communication in general) is to do my best to understand social protocols, wing it from there (be myself), and continue to learn/improve. I'm not really too afraid that I will be misrepresenting myself, because I have a really comfortable relationship with this person, and she knows I'm quite grounded as to my Japanese self esteem. It's just one of the slightly puzzling aspects of it all. And also really it's complements about my character that are the most unsettling (in a good way, if that makes sense).

And some of the embarrassment comes from the fact that a part of me beams with silly pride when I do something right! After working my ass off, experiencing oceans of frustration, and sucking sucking sucking, a small victory feels like a big one to an ego that's a wee bit starved for the joy of success. There's a mixed feeling thing going on there.

I'm sure many can relate to the experience of being a complete newb, and taking your first lingual steps.... it's shaky, broken, sputtery, frustrating, fun, interesting, dumbfounding, hilarious at times, and a bit surreal. Your mind searches for words you KNOW.......................... but for the life of you won't surface. But every now and then you say something or understand something perfectly - you nail it! This is the very first chance I've had to speak Japanese, so I'm paying dues like all who tread the path. Until now I have been completely self taught in isolation (sans this forum), so you can imagine what it's like.

And we are definitely not on equal ground (thank god!) She's been here for 3 years and can communicate in English well. So the exchange for her is talking about Japanese in English, and prompting me to use the little I know as dynamically as possible.

As magamo suggests, I will make an effort to notice how she responds to compliments. I do compliment her, and I think she definitely does the whole down play thing, but it's coming at my newbie ass so quickly that it's tough for me to understand all of it. I'll be better situated in the next meeting to follow her respose, after reading all the input on this thread.

magamo Wrote:This is as difficult as the opposite question, i.e., "How do I compliment her in Japanese?" It depends on context and your character. This kind of thing is very cultural too.

Can you share a little bit about this side of things? I realize that each person and situation is different, I'm just curious about any cultural insights (if you feel up to it).

Magamo - I always love your explanations. You have a real talent for explaining (in both languages) nuances, what would sound natural and practical application.

I have a question about this sentence:

実際お世辞を言われると日本語でどう答えればいいのか、いつも困ってしまうんですよ。
I don't even know how to respond to compliments in Japanese.

I might have avoided this wording thinking that it might be taken as "I never know how to respond to compliments" (implying that I am often complimented.) Maybe this is giving a phrase an English connotation that it doesn't have in Japanese. Or perhaps you'd just rely on tone to avoid any misunderstanding. What do you think?

georgative Wrote:sounds really phony to me =(

Oh well. It's their culture. Nothing you can do about it.

Haha. Some Japanese also think it's phony too! That said, I guess every culture has phony protocols. I wouldn't talk about how depressed I am or how annoying someone is when you greets me with "How are you?" or "What's up?"

TaylorSan Wrote:

magamo Wrote:This is as difficult as the opposite question, i.e., "How do I compliment her in Japanese?" It depends on context and your character. This kind of thing is very cultural too.

Can you share a little bit about this side of things? I realize that each person and situation is different, I'm just curious about any cultural insights (if you feel up to it).

H-how to compliment a girl? I wish I were a pro!

Joking aside, it doesn't seem Japanese men care about compliments as much as Japanese girls. Also, it seems Westerners say compliments/flattery more often than Japanese guys in general, though there are things pretty much every Japanese would compliment or flatter, e.g., foreigners' Japanese skills.

Here's a short article about situations the Japanese can't help flattering a person:

http://news.ameba.jp/gooranking/2009/05/37934.html

Thora Wrote:Magamo - I always love your explanations. You have a real talent for explaining (in both languages) nuances, what would sound natural and practical application.

いえいえ、そんな才能だなんて。私の説明を気に入ってもらえてとても嬉しいのですが、日本語の先生でもなんでもないので、もしかしたらトンチンカンなことを言ってるかもしれません。眉につばをつけて聞いて下さいね。

Thora Wrote:I have a question about this sentence:

実際お世辞を言われると日本語でどう答えればいいのか、いつも困ってしまうんですよ。
I don't even know how to respond to compliments in Japanese.

I might have avoided this wording thinking that it might be taken as "I never know how to respond to compliments" (implying that I am often complimented.) Maybe this is giving a phrase an English connotation that it doesn't have in Japanese. Or perhaps you'd just rely on tone to avoid any misunderstanding. What do you think?

You might come across a bit arrogant with the Japanese sentence for the same reason too. I was assuming a situation where your tone, facial expression, etc. imply it's kind of a joke because you just handled a compliment properly. You can say it in a neutral tone too. If you want to avoid misunderstanding, you can say お世辞を言われると in a bit embarrassed way. This also makes it clear that you mean you don't deserve those positive comments.

Actually, お世辞 is a bit more like flattery or insincere compliments than the English word "compliment," though it doesn't always have negative connotations. Also, Japanese people know we should say お世辞 about Japanese skills to foreigners, and the listener just did it (That's why you're responding to her in the first place.). So in this sense, the Japanese sentence could be less arrogant. But it all depends on the tone of your voice and such. You can make it semantically more humble, e.g., お世辞を言ってくれる人もいるんですが、日本語が上手くないので何も言えなかったりするんです. But if you say it the wrong way, it could sound too humble and people might take it as a blatant lie.

For the same reason, pretty much every compliment can be sarcastic depending on your tone, context and so on.

With that said, I guess normal people don't think you have a bad intention when you're speaking in a foreign language regardless of your tone.

magamo Wrote:

georgative Wrote:sounds really phony to me =(

Oh well. It's their culture. Nothing you can do about it.

Haha. Some Japanese also think it's phony too! That said, I guess every culture has phony protocols. I wouldn't talk about how depressed I am or how annoying someone is when you greets me with "How are you?" or "What's up?"

Thats a really good point! I guess it's something you get used to.

Thanks for putting things in perspective. I guess you don't notice the ridiculousness of some things in your own culture =)

georgative Wrote:

magamo Wrote:

georgative Wrote:sounds really phony to me =(

Oh well. It's their culture. Nothing you can do about it.

Haha. Some Japanese also think it's phony too! That said, I guess every culture has phony protocols. I wouldn't talk about how depressed I am or how annoying someone is when you greets me with "How are you?" or "What's up?"

Thats a really good point! I guess it's something you get used to.

Thanks for putting things in perspective. I guess you don't notice the ridiculousness of some things in your own culture =)

Automatic phrases like that were a big peeve of mine when I was young and angsty, hehe.

I tend to use-

いいえ、上手なもんですか ((my Japanese) isn't at all good/awful).

When it's the "I just met you and you only said one word in Japanese situation(ありがとう、こんにちは、etc)" - that usually gets a laugh. It was mostly to throw in variety with my まだまだ。Not sure if it's a standard reply or not, but I learned it from a text book and thought it would be fun to try out.

I notice that these "protocol compliments" only came up the first time I met a person once my Japanese got to a certain level. And if you think about it, we do the same thing in English at times- like if your co-worker got a crappy haircut you still tell them it looks good, or your friends mom made you dinner and it wasn't all that good. White lies- the Japanese aren't the only people in the world to use them. In English we just tend to accept it and move on, whereas if Japanese is your second language you may think too hard about it- I know I'm guilty of doing it.

I tend to use "あたりまえやろう、おっりゃすげえっすわ”.

Here's some funny/rude ones:

あたなの基準が低いから

そうか?もっとすごいこと見せてやる

俺。。天才だよ

lol hans wins!!!! Those are great answers.

This is a problem I had as well. At first I tried to play the polite まだまだゲーム but after trying to be modest they almost ALWAYS proceeded to say "No, really, you're good. I've never met a foreigner like you! How long did you study? Wow that's amazing! Most foreign people I meet can't speak any blah blah blah". This is nice once or twice, but it became a consistent problem that I felt was distracting from whatever it was I came to the place to do in the first place. A quick compliment will quickly turn into a naive blah blah session which gets annoying after a while.

I know I'm good, and I don't want to talk about it, so I just　ありがとうございます。This gives exactly that impression. I complained to my jp friends about getting complimented all the time and they also suggested that this is the best way to politely brush it off.

If it's someone of important social status - bosses, clients, people you need to impress, then まだまだゲーム is better. However, usually for me it's turds at bars, well meaning but pesky clerks, etc.