Anyone got any tips on how to get better at drawing? I used to draw a lot, but stopped a few years ago. Now I suck =(

I wanted to use anki... somehow. Maybe I use an SRS too much =)

When we learn a language, we are always copying. I'm thinking you could take the same approach when learning to draw. If I find a drawing I like (e.g in a manga I'm reading, etc) then I can try and copy it. If I properly construct it (going from a rough skeleton filling out the details) then surely I will get better. seems it's a bit like collecting and understanding sentences, but only with drawing.

I bought some DVD's by Riven Phoenix, and they are well worth the money (That is assuming you want to draw people)

http://the-structure-of-man.blogspot.com/

They used to be on youtube for free, although I still paid for CD's just to support him.
I haven't drawn in a long time so my skills have probably degraded quite a bit, but if I do get back into it again the Riven Phoenix DVD's would be the first thing I do.

He basically goes through some extremely accurate formulas that you can use to get a perfectly proportioned person.
He starts with bones (In huge detail) and goes into muscle (Also in huge detail)

I'm not sure if you could use anki for drawing itself, but you could try to SRS formulas for proportions etc.

Practice. Practice. Practice.

Also manga is nice but don't forget to also draw from life or at least from photographs.

Copying is a good way to train the hand-eye skill. And yeah draw from life. Go check out a life drawing group/class and draw naked people. Observe everything, draw as much as you can. Draw on anything you can. I learned how to draw as a kid from mad practice, copying comic strips, and drawing constantly during class, on my desk, on my notebooks, all the damn time. It can take some time to develop, but I think anyone with motivation can learn to draw well. Most people seem to think of it as a talent -"Oh I can't draw". That's BS imop - while talent plays a part (like 10% imop) it's really mostly just a skill, and takes work to develop to a high level. I have a friend who decided in his early 20's that he wanted to be good at drawing - he practiced a lot and is now a pro.

And I think you like your SRS a wee bit too much there pal LOL!

頑張って！

Nyanda Wrote:I bought some DVD's by Riven Phoenix, and they are well worth the money (That is assuming you want to draw people)

http://the-structure-of-man.blogspot.com/

They used to be on youtube for free, although I still paid for CD's just to support him.
I haven't drawn in a long time so my skills have probably degraded quite a bit, but if I do get back into it again the Riven Phoenix DVD's would be the first thing I do.

Whoa! That looks awesome! I will definitely look into this =D

Codexus Wrote:Copying is a good way to train the hand-eye skill. And yeah draw from life. Go check out a life drawing group/class and draw naked people. Observe everything, draw as much as you can. Draw on anything you can. I learned how to draw as a kid from mad practice, copying comic strips, and drawing constantly during class, on my desk, on my notebooks, all the damn time. It can take some time to develop, but I think anyone with motivation can learn to draw well. Most people seem to think of it as a talent -"Oh I can't draw". That's BS imop - while talent plays a part (like 10% imop) it's really mostly just a skill, and takes work to develop to a high level. I have a friend who decided in his early 20's that he wanted to be good at drawing - he practiced a lot and is now a pro.

And I think you like your SRS a wee bit too much there pal LOL!

頑張って！

Yeah, I used to draw a lot in my school notes, but now I'm doing A-Levels, I don't have enough time to write down notes and draw pictures at the same time =(

... I think maybe.. yeah maybe I like my SRS too much =D

The best thing is definitely practice. I'd say focus on quick sketches, get lots of practice with form and proportions (rather than with shading, coloring, backgrounds... etc).

I don't see how you can use a SRS... maybe if your trying to draw things from memory? Practice drawing cows from pictures... then put "cow" into the SRS (With a picture of a cow as an answer) and see how accurately you can draw the cow from memory...

This is not something for Anki.. you're looking in the wrong place.

But yea, practice, practice, practice. If you want an entirely self-paced course I'd recommend "How to draw what you see": http://www.amazon.com/How-Draw-What-Prac...823023753/

If you would like to be able to draw, that's nice...

I think what probably matters the most is that you have something you want to draw or some other kind of lasting motive for wanting to draw. In the end, no matter what you go after, be it drawing from observation or drawing for other technical reasons (like manga, architecture etc) what'll matter the most is the mileage on your hands.


Basically, find something you like about drawing and do it. Repetition and tracing is fine as long as it doesn't become the primary objective of your drawing activity.

I've been reading up on the experiments with spaced learning over the years, had no idea that they've shown results superior to 'massed' learning on motor/psychomotor skills, and even in HS physics (ie students learning and applying new material to physics problems). I need to read more on that, though. There's also some possibility with trying to tie this together with visual working memory, et cetera. I have no idea how to go about doing this, though. In fact, my inner 'drawer' has never been fond of structure; sometimes, after a little practice with drawing simple geometric shapes or doodling, I find I've an impulse to draw something complex that generally turns out excellent, or I just lose interest--any attempt to force myself to draw results in my homunculus-artist folding their arms and turning away. hehe

if you want to learn how to draw, you're going nowhere.
if you want to draw, then do it. do it every day, bring a sketch pad and a pencil with you everywhere, draw everything you see. look at other people's drawings, show your drawings to other people. do that, and skill will follow.
once you can draw, you can go look for new techniques, a deeper understanding of anatomy, etc. but before that, it would be a waste of time, imho.

A drawer is where you keep socks and underwear.
A draftsman is whom you go to for a drawing.

Heck, recreate what we do with Japanese.

Trace a picture, Draw same picture by looking at it, Draw same picture from memory.

Keep it small and simple, just variations of things ie Dog from above, dog from side, dog with mouth open, car with door open, car with hood up, car from front, etc. As you get better and faster, go with combination of images.

Kind of like any other artistic talent, just do it a lot. If it's a matter of figuring out what to draw next, hell, use the Core 2000 photos. Just don't worry about marking them wrong. You want bulk, not perfection. Perfection will follow in time.

ocircle Wrote:A drawer is where you keep socks and underwear.
A draftsman is whom you go to for a drawing.

Not sure if that's a reference to my comment, which was deliberately using folksy portmanteau words (and quotes), but technically I don't think you'll find the dictionary (drawer) or common parlance (draftsman) online really supports you [ie "person who draws pictures" is easily understood and in the dictionary, if awkward, in this context, but I think most people don't use the word 'draftsman' to refer to the act of drawing pictures, and will assume an industrial sort of connotation if that latter term is used... personally I prefer 'artist', but I was too lazy to contextualize it, so I went with half-joking 'drawer'], so anyway, cute comment, but hopefully it was only 1% serious. Nothing more embarrassing than a 'fail' at being nitpicky! Best recourse when that failure occurs is to claim an idiosyncratic peeve or assert that one was more joking than serious, in my opinion. ;p

Hmm, think I'm in my own quirky neurotic mood. I blame Curb Your Enthusiasm ("Do you respect wood?").

Draw a lot. Everyday. Don't bother with the SRS, it's made for a completely different skill.

As for what to draw, draw from life or pictures for the most part. If you draw a variety of things(as opposed to specializing on people or animals or cars...), you'll be increasing the mechanical skills, but not so much your ability to draw something well from memory.

What do you want to draw, anyway?

yukamina Wrote:Draw a lot. Everyday. Don't bother with the SRS, it's made for a completely different skill.

As for what to draw, draw from life or pictures for the most part. If you draw a variety of things(as opposed to specializing on people or animals or cars...), you'll be increasing the mechanical skills, but not so much your ability to draw something well from memory.

What do you want to draw, anyway?

SRS isn't made for any particular skill, and since the software is modifiable and how you use it can be flexible, I don't think you should try to force it to be used for one skill, not when research shows a spacing effect to be superior in a wide variety of learning/types of memory. That said, I've not idea how I'd go about integrating Anki with drawing practice, too lazy. I wouldn't bother, since I tend to get immersed in drawing and toss structure by the wayside.

OK, since it hasn't been mentioned yet, I'm going to recommend taking a look at Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. It's interesting because it takes a psychological approach to teaching drawing, trying to train you to see things differently (e.g., to improve your copying, just copy the lines as you see them, don't think about what you're actually drawing).

shirokuro Wrote:OK, since it hasn't been mentioned yet, I'm going to recommend taking a look at Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. It's interesting because it takes a psychological approach to teaching drawing, trying to train you to see things differently (e.g., to improve your copying, just copy the lines as you see them, don't think about what you're actually drawing).

Oh yes! Forgot to mention that. (Or "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain", as it were. With workbook.) There's also that book by Nicolaides about the natural way to draw, I think that's considered a classic. I used condensed tips taken from those that were included in another book a long time ago.

Draw all day everyday. Become obsessive about it. Go insane. Voila!

No anki necessary.

Edit: Wait. You could probably use anki to drill yourself on the name of anatomy parts. Or have anki give you a name and you have to draw the picture.

Copy. Copy pictures, copy other drawings. Mantain a diary of what you are doing and you'll do fine.

nest0r Wrote:SRS isn't made for any particular skill, and since the software is modifiable and how you use it can be flexible, I don't think you should try to force it to be used for one skill, not when research shows a spacing effect to be superior in a wide variety of learning/types of memory. That said, I've not idea how I'd go about integrating Anki with drawing practice, too lazy. I wouldn't bother, since I tend to get immersed in drawing and toss structure by the wayside.

I disagree. SRS is for mental skills, memory. Drawing is physical, hand-eye coordination. You can see something a million times, and have the image ingrained in your head and still not have the physical ability to draw it. It takes practice, more practice than your mind needs to remember something. And after that you need to keep practicing regularly, long after your mind would need to review something it knows well.

yukamina Wrote:

nest0r Wrote:SRS isn't made for any particular skill, and since the software is modifiable and how you use it can be flexible, I don't think you should try to force it to be used for one skill, not when research shows a spacing effect to be superior in a wide variety of learning/types of memory. That said, I've not idea how I'd go about integrating Anki with drawing practice, too lazy. I wouldn't bother, since I tend to get immersed in drawing and toss structure by the wayside.

I disagree. SRS is for mental skills, memory. Drawing is physical, hand-eye coordination. You can see something a million times, and have the image ingrained in your head and still not have the physical ability to draw it. It takes practice, more practice than your mind needs to remember something. And after that you need to keep practicing regularly, long after your mind would need to review something it knows well.

SRS is for applying spaced repetition to learning, it partially automates the process for you. You still have to interact with it, tell it what to present you with, and respond to it. The spacing effect applies to more than verbal memory or whatever, it can also be applied to physical learning--and even with just verbal memory, using multiple senses enhances the learning process. Also, don't make the mistake of thinking of your mind as separate from your body. When you develop your hand-eye coordination with practice, that is your mind doing the remembering. Also, as I mentioned in another thread, studies have shown that even just visualizing physical movements triggers the same areas of the cortex as performing those movements.

That said, as I mentioned above, I'm not saying that using Anki with learning to draw is definitely the way to go, but I do think it could benefit from strategic use of spaced learning, if one wanted to go that route.

nestor brings up a good point about spacing. Perhaps the "draw all the time" approach could be over kill, I really don't know. It does work. As for spacing... maybe - draw A LOT, but take breaks too. I go in phases, and even take LONG breaks (even years - well very little drawing during these times, not zero, focus on a new skill from the ground up -ie japanese) that seem to refresh my inner "artist" - I go back to it and find I am just a little better, because I'm refreshed and have changed as a person. Now I find I want to rev up my drawing skills, and am going to start formal training (Dave Mack's "Kabuki" inspired me - the man can draw any style!).

But spacing is intuitive for this kind of thing I think. If you're just starting to develop it, charge in there and draw a TON!

Drawing is just like writing a story, it's all about how you want to express yourself, what is the best word to convey such and such a meaning.

Likewise with drawing it's all about which stroke you feel best represents what you want to draw. Some artists use completely unconventional stroke styles but when it all fits together, you see a brilliant piece of art. E.g say you use some tiny ugly shaped rectangle to represent a leaf, you maintain using this because this is how you perceive what a leaf to be. Keep at it and at the end you'll get a really unique (literally unique) piece of art that represents you.

If none of the above makes sense, just think of it as a way of transforming the real world onto paper
I.e to a mathematician, leaves are just a thing with length x, width y, curvature followed by function f(x) from this boudnary to that boundary, and its reverse function -f(x) for the other side of the leaf, trees are like permutation trees that randomly branch off in a unique manner etc
To an artist, a leaf can be an oblong shaped rectangle with a quick swift stroke in the middle to show the central nerve, or it can be a smudge of a blunt pencil, it can be whatever you want it to be, just keep experimenting to see what you think is best, it doesn't have to look * exactly* like the leaf, but it has to convey the feeling of it being a leaf when you look at it so to speak. I know there are some artists that can literally do that, I don't study art so I don't know what you call them.

But it's all about how you feel something looks like and how much you can convey that feeling.

If you keep working at expressing what you truly see, after a while you'll develop your own unique style, I'm always at a love hate relationship with my style. I hate it because it's so shit, but when I apply it to tiny flowers, and stuff I like to draw, they don't turn out all that bad. Then again I don't draw all that much, I have more fun making models, but I don't really make models either.


Oh and for sake of not committing suicide, I'll pretend I didn't see "SRS" at all in this thread.

First he does have to draw all the time to become good. I have to practice Japanese all the time to be good.

However, just like he's not drawing the same picture over and over, I'm not reading the same word or sentence over and over. The SRS allows consistency and variety without thinking too much about it. So, use that aspect in drawing in various ways. SRS introduces variety of pictures, you draw it, press 'easy' and go on to the next picture. That picture will pop up again in a few days, but you don't care till that happens.

It's in this case, the R in SRS stands for repetition and not remembrance. Go for amount, and not perfection, hence the reason I say go for simple pictures that can be drawn fast. Based on various articles that were linked on these forums, AJATT and CrossFit, the fact that you're drawing a lot (say, 1 picture every 5 minutes, 10 pictures a day for 30 days) will trump going for perfection (draw 1 picture perfectly an hour a day for 30 days). What results can show is the guy mass producing quickly drawn pictures at the end just produces better products.

Again, I'm not an artist, I'm just pulling this off articles. But it makes sense. If you worry about what to draw you waste time, if you don't set a time limit per picture you waste time, if you go for perfection you waste time.

liosama Wrote:Oh and for sake of not committing suicide, I'll pretend I didn't see "SRS" at all in this thread.

This comment's too long, I'm going to have to break it down and SRS it befor replying properly. But that'll have to wait, I need to SRS my grocery list. After I SRS tomorrow's travel routes.