After using the sonomama dictionary on the DS for a couple of years I've found that although it's been great, I need something a bit 'more' now, and thus am thinking about buying an electronic dictionary.

I've been looking around for a while, but the problem is my eyesight isn't great and I will need one with a clear, bright screen. Unfortunately I don't live in Japan so can't go have a look myself, and can't seem to find anything on the dictionaries other than a photoshoped photo which isn't much help.

The Casio XD-GF10000 (or maybe a slightly older model) seems pretty good, and I was also looking at the Seiko SR-G10000, which is ment to have a nice screen, but it doesent have stylus input which is a big drawback for me.

Just wondered if anyone has any advice before I take the plunge. I forked out a few months ago on an Ebook reader that I found strained my eyes and don't want to make the same mistake again!

I was also thinking of getting one since my sonomama jiten isn't doing it for me anymore, it's a nice (cheaper) option but too often I encounter words that are not in it too bad. I was thinking Canon or the Casio one, but I've heard lots more positive things about the Casio ones. And about the screens you don't have to worry, they're usually big, bright and clear. And you definitely want stylus input, it's a must. Also you don't have to worry about straining your eyes because you're not using the dictionary the same as an eReader staring at it for hours.

[Katsuo]

I occasionally go down to Akihabara and try out the latest 電子辞書. And yes, Seiko have a couple of top-of-the-range models that are way ahead of anything else in terms of screen crispness and clarity.

Of course there are other factors too. Details can usually be found on line, but ideally it's best to try them out extensively. {Seiko downloads: a) brochure, b) user manuals}

Thanks for the replies, (and sorry this one's late).
Guess I will be getting a dictionary soon after all then!
It's a real shame that Seiko don't have everything I want, otherwise I'lld get one of theirs. (though knowing my luck they will release one as soon as I've bought mine!)

Been looking at the details onlne anyway, but never thought about reading the manuals, I'll see what I can find.

I've got the Casio XD-GF10000 and have had no problems with it so far. Its a good device that often comes up with the answer when the Mac dictionary falls short. Its also expandable.

I love how big the screen is and how it has an optional back-light. The only drawback I've noticed so far is that the built in flash card making feature is rather poor. It doesn't pull directly from dictionary entries, you have to draw the info onto each side of the card with a stylus.

I think denshi jisho are pretty much obsolete now. Using EPWING/native dictionaries on a computer or ipod touch/iphone (or other smartphone/pda) beats them in every regard.

In regards to brands:
-Casio has the best overall unit and the most popular by far among Japanese users (I can count on two hands the number of students I've seen with any other brand, out of hundreds of students). The one negative I have after a few years with my unit is that the battery sensing logic is retarded. It will warn you of an impending dead battery every 10 seconds with a popup weeks before the battery will actually die.

-Seiko has the best keyboards and also make some nice compact units - no stylus input though. They are responsive and the hardware is VERY sturdy.

-Sharp has the most advanced features (color screen, oneseg tuner, rechargeable lithium battery, but the interface is so laggy as to make you want to smash it with a hammer.. The battery also only lasts a few hours, as opposed to weeks, thanks to those (useless) features.

-Canon apparently has better English documentation (which is why they are so prevalent among foreigners despite the fact that they aren't popular at all among Japanese users). The search functions are very poorly designed and the units I've used were also laggy compared to my Casio and Seiko.

To rank the units by popularity in Japan, It goes Casio, Seiko, Canon, Sharp, with the last three being pretty close due to the miniscule marketshare that they have.

So in short, my recommendation is for Casio, or Seiko if you want a compact unit that will fit in your pants pocket and you can carry around. Actually, my recommendation is for an iPod touch with a few EPWING dictionaries or pro dictionaries from the appstore, you just won't get to enjoy random fluff content like my dictionary of ways to impress a date - no really my denshi jisho has that.

iPod touch 8gb: At Yodobashi Camera 19,800Y (tax included)
大辞林 (monolingual, more useful to a learner than kojien which most denshijisho use), from the appstore: 1,500Y
研究社中辞典: (J-E,E-J dictionary. Better than genius or progressive which most denshijisho use), from appstore: 3,600Y
漢字源: (Kanji dictionary, same one that every single denshi jisho uses, you probably won't need it), from appstore: 3,600Y

vs a decent Casio denshijisho (gf-6500), 32,800Y at Yodobashi Camera

The iPod touch solution is cheaper overall, but you don't get all the fluff you'll never use with it. You do, on the other hand, get an iPod, web-browser, email, Anki, etc etc.

If you want to compare features across 電子辞書, check out kakaku.com, and you can compare features-- which ones have which dictionaries, and stuff like that.

I don't use my Papyrus that much these days. I tend to use the 大辞林 on my iPhone more often now.

I'm slowly turning my iPhone into a 電子辞書, to be honest. There's 大辞林 out there, and there's also 漢字源 out there as well as other dictionaries now as iPhone apps in the app store, such as Genius 2 (if you need a 英和・和英 dictionary) among others. Just do a search on the app store for 辞書, and you can find a lot of them out there.

The downside is that some of them aren't too cheap (Genius 2 runs $41, 漢字源 is $31), but even the most expensive one is cheaper than a full-blown 電子辞書, so if you're on a budget, or don't want to deal with importing one, it's a viable option.

The upside is that you can pick and choose the dictionaries you want, you'll get a much smaller form factor, there's no stylus to a lose, you still get kanji recognition (use the Chinese traditional character doodling pad.)

Also, since the dictionaries are software, they can be updated, which is nice. Of course, if you don't backup, they can get zorched. Not so good.

Edit: Dammit, Jarvik7 beat me to it. XD

I don't have my iPhone Jailbroken, tho., so I don't have the cool kid toys. And I'm not sure if 研究社 is available at the US app store. I didn't see it, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Edit 2: Ah, there it is.. under 研究社. $31. Cheap!

If you're near Nagoya I'm even selling my jailbroken 2nd gen iPod touch 8gb, since I got an iPhone. I'll even put Anki on it for you

--> http://nagoya.craigslist.jp/ele/1388015313.html
Nagoya sucks for selling stuff There are tons of foreigners here but craigslist is empty.


By the way, the GF-10000 you mentioned costs 59,800Y at Yodobashi. That's like 300£.

Jarvik7 Wrote:If you're near Nagoya I'm even selling my jailbroken 2nd gen iPod touch 8gb, since I got an iPhone. I'll even put Anki on it for you

--> http://nagoya.craigslist.jp/ele/1388015313.html

By the way, the GF-10000 you mentioned costs 59,800Y at Yodobashi. That's like 300£.

Like Jarvik mentioned, its expensive at a big box store. Don't even bother there unless you're good at haggling. They'll come down though if you're persistent. A friend of mine got it for 4 man and they still gave him points on it too.

Personally I just went to Akiba and talked down a street vendor.

Just downloaded the 研究社 app and installed it. Nice app. Lots of example sentences. Now that you can cut and paste (albeit awkwardly), you really can make this into a viable alternative.

I won't get rid of my papyrus completely, if only because it makes jumping around from the various dictionaries a lot faster. The cut and paste with the iPhone is still fiddly from within 研究社, although it's smooth as silk in the 大辞林, because 大辞林 has it's own superjump feature built-in. That's a really polished app.

There isn't any superjump feature built into the 研究社 app. It's pretty straightforward in that regard. Or should I say basic? But that's not necessarily fair. 研究社 can search a number of different ways, which is pretty cool. You can search for all kinds of word parts-- beginnings, endings, and middles of words, which is critical sometimes.

We should probably start keeping a list of reviews of iPhone dictionary apps, just so people know what's what for each of them, huh?

The developer that made 大辞林 also made Wisdom. It's not a dictionary I'm too familiar with, but it also has superjump. I've never noticed copy & paste being a particular issue in kenkyuusha though..

It could be because I use a screen film on iPhone, but I've always had issues getting cut/paste to work smoothly on my iPhone. (Or maybe I just suck at it.)

The Wisdom dictionary sounds interesting, but I don't know that I want to load too many 英和 dictionaries on my phone. 研究社 should be just fine as it is.

I also saw a 四字熟語　dictionary somewhere, too. I'll probably wind up with a screenful of dictionaries soon enough. XD

I used to use a 電子辞書 religiously when I first came to California, but now adays my needs are pretty limited to looking up obscure words I stumble upon in English literature once in a while. Since it's really not worth carrying around a 電子辞書 for the limited use; I just use my iPhone now adays. Going with an iPod Touch is not only cheaper, but much more versatile, as others noted.

One drawback to that, however, is that the battery on an iPod Touch/iPhone doesn't last too long if you're using the dictionary apps for long periods of time. So if you're going to be needing it for long study/research periods, or whatnot, then it might be best to go with a 電子辞書 .

This post is going to be pretty long, so read this when you have plenty of spare time on your hands.

I've been a hardcore user of electronic dics. I used to have Seiko SR-E10000, which is a predecessor of SR-G10000. I gave it to my friend and bought the successor, which I already had to super glue twice because I carry and abuse it every day. SR-G10000 is pretty good if you're learning English, but if you're a Japanese learner, I recommend Casio XD-GF10000. I tried out XD-GF10000 at a store in Akihabara, and it was well-designed and easy to navigate. I prefer Seiko's screen and mini keyboard, but probably that's because I'm used to them. I recommend you try it out before you pony up your money because not everyone likes its search function, keyboard, and so on.

Anyway, XD-GF10000's functions/dictionaries that I think are good for Japanese learners are:

Handwriting panel: You can search kanji, words and whatnot by writing them with a stylus. It'll make your life a lot easier, especially when you're a Japanese learner. Seiko doesn't have this. I tried this handwriting thing and really want it on my Seiko...

Meikyo J-J dic (明鏡国語辞典): I do believe this is THE dictionary intermediate/advance learners must use. It's a small dic for native speakers and is designed to help improve writing and speaking. The dic has a lot of useful information such as word usage, difference between synonyms etc. You'll know that a lot of questions posted on this forum are already answered in this dic. It's small for native speakers, but I think it's more than enough for learners.

The best J-E dic (新和英大辞典): I'd say anyone who doesn't think Kenkyusha's 新和英大辞典 is the best J-E dic has never used it. The entries are designed by Japanese linguists who study Japanese, so it include various idiomatic usages, rare meanings, etc. It has plenty of examples and everything. Like your average AJATTers, I'm against using bilingual dictionaries, but this dic is the exception.

Japanese pitch accent dic (NHK 日本語発音アクセント辞典): Apparently the Japanese pitch accent (e.g., 橋 (hashi) vs. 端 (hashi)) is the toughest thing to learn. If you want to speak Japanese like a native speaker, you might want to have a reliable dictionary of the pitch accent. I don't use it myself because Japanese is my first language and don't want to reduce my accent, but I've heard a lot of positive things about this accent dic.

3 popular E-J dics: These three J-E dics are all popular in Japan. It wouldn't hurt your Japanese to have multiple dics for double or triple checking. I used to use one of them when I was a high school student because my school recommended it.

The best Japanese thesauruses: XD-GF10000 contains the two most famous Japanese thesauruses. I don't think it's useful if you're a beginner, but advanced learners may find them very helpful. I often use 日本語大シソーラス because it's also included in my SR-G10000, and I like it.

Decent Kanji dic (新漢語林): Everyone needs at least one decent kanji dic, I think. I use this when I look up a kanji.

J-J Adage and 4-kanji-idiom dics: Advanced learners may want to hone their Japanese by learning proverbs, adages, 四字熟語, and so on.

The largest J-J dics: 日本国語大辞典 is pretty much the Japanese equivalent of Oxford English Dictionary; largest and authoritative. 広辞苑 is the most popular dictionary among native Japanese speakers. These are definitely overkill and not particularly useful to most of the non-native speakers, though.

There are tons of more books/dictionaries in it such as an E-J bilingual book about Japanese culture, masterpieces of Japanese novels and poems (these novels/poems are audio books), J-E travel phrase books, Britannica Concise Encyclopedia in Japanese, history dics, Japanese manner book (written in Japanese), etc.

If I were a Japanese learner, I'd definitely buy it.

Wow, thanks for all the replies!

I'm seriously starting to think about ditching the 電子辞書 option and just getting some dictionaries for my iPhone. Would be so much cheaper and then I would always have it with me, among other reasons. Plus I didn't know 研究社 was on there, and that's the one I really wanted (along with a decent J-J one)

One question though, do the good iPhone dictionaries have a history feature? I use it every time I look something up on the DS, because I add words to anki later, or would I have to copy and paste everything?

By the way, what is this EPWING I keep hearing about? Sorry if it's a stupid question. :p

I haven't had much luck with the iPhone dictionaries, I find it a pain to type with.

deathspi Wrote:Wow, thanks for all the replies!

I'm seriously starting to think about ditching the 電子辞書 option and just getting some dictionaries for my iPhone. Would be so much cheaper and then I would always have it with me, among other reasons. Plus I didn't know 研究社 was on there, and that's the one I really wanted (along with a decent J-J one)

One question though, do the good iPhone dictionaries have a history feature? I use it every time I look something up on the DS, because I add words to anki later, or would I have to copy and paste everything?

By the way, what is this EPWING I keep hearing about? Sorry if it's a stupid question. :p

They have both a history and a bookmarking feature.

EPWING is a format for (usually pro) dictionaries (研究社 etc) meant to be used on computers & word processors, but there are also iphone readers for them.

If you use appulous or whatever its called you can get some decent dictionaries for free.

Isn't there a good electronic jisho J-J for children? The paper one seems good, but an electronic version of the same thing would be awesome!

Nii87 Wrote:Isn't there a good electronic jisho J-J for children? The paper one seems good, but an electronic version of the same thing would be awesome!

Not that I'm aware of, but I find daijirin's entries very easy to understand.

I'd be surprised if someone of your calibre couldn't =P

Bah, I'll wager he's less than 1000mm.

~J

[Katsuo]

magamo Wrote:Japanese pitch accent dic (NHK 日本語発音アクセント辞典): Apparently the Japanese pitch accent (e.g., 橋 (hashi) vs. 端 (hashi)) is the toughest thing to learn. If you want to speak Japanese like a native speaker, you might want to have a reliable dictionary of the pitch accent. I don't use it myself because Japanese is my first language and don't want to reduce my accent, but I've heard a lot of positive things about this accent dic.

I've just been trying that out in a nearby store. Many Casio models include the NHK pitch accent dictionary, but most have text entries only (with overhead lines to indicate the pitch). However, two models (XD-GF6500 & XD-GF6550) also have sound recordings which is a very useful feature, I think. (UPDATE: 2010/01/30. In the latest range ten out of sixteen models with the NHK dictionary now include sound recordings for it.)

My one disappointment with Casio models is the handwriting recognition, which continues to be poor in comparison to Sharp. (Though Casios are fine when writing on the main screen using the 漢語林). (EDIT: I've subsequently discovered that the recognition varies with dictionary, e.g. while the 広辞苑 had no trouble with the kanji "犬", the accent dictionary interpreted it as "ズ" every time.)

Here are some more links for anyone wanting to compare features, etc.
Casio: Catalogue / User manuals
Sharp: Catalogue / User manuals
Canon: Catalogue / User manuals
Seiko: Catalogue / User manuals

(couldn't find a catalogue for Sharp)