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Beyond RTK3, list of 漢字 to unlock some achievements

#1
(This could also fit in another forum, but I will base my lists on RTK3 so I've put it here. Smile I hope that's not too wrong. I'm not sure how useful these lists are for others, but maybe I can save someone the time of assembling them themself. I've put the longer lists into external files so that the post doesn't get too confusing.)

Say you have finished RTK1+3 and you still want more 漢字 superpowers. Daily SRS reps are routine for you. 100+ 漢字 a day is totally normal. You crave for more. Or maybe you just wanna show off that you are not just doing it for the エロゲー and アニメ. Well, have I got the deal for you!

I've assembled several lists of useful additional characters you can learn. As you'll see, you have already done almost all of the hard work. Just a few more and you can add a whole bunch of milestones to your list. Smile (Of course, some of them are only variants or only used in names or highly specialized. Feel free to skip Fish No. 347 and Tree No. 521. Also, the lists themselves overlap of course. I've included a reasonable merge to kinda address this. If you want to add some of the more... optimistic lists, just match yourself.)

You can finish the 常用漢字 with these 22 and finally know all 漢字 the government considers useful:
傲喩嗅恣惧慄憚憬拉摯曾璧瘍籠緻羞訃諧貪踪辣鬱

Add these 80 人名用漢字 and you can write names like a pro:
乎亦俐俠俱其凜凰厩吞堯堺塙塡壬娩宕巖巷庚彌徠徽惺戊戟捲掬摑昊晄曾梛椛楚槇樟橙櫂毘沓湘漣焰煌熙珀珂琥瘦砧祁祿禰禱禾稟穰簞繡繫羚萊萠萱董蔣蕾蟬蠟遙醬釉釧閏頰顚驍魯鷗

Pass the JLPT1 with only these 7 漢字:
其呟曾炒睨籠茹

Only 113 more and you can pass 漢検 level 1.5! Woohoo!
乍乎亦儘其凜凰劃匝匪卦厩堺塘塙壬姶娩婁宕岨岱巷庚廠弗弼徽戊戎戟捲掬摸斌曾杢柁栴桓椛椴楚楳樟橡檮毘沓涌淘渠湘漑漣澗濤瀦熙猷珂甑甜盃盈矧砧硲礦祁禾籠粂緬腿舛艮苒苧荊荏莱菟萱葎董蒋蔀虻蛛蜘轍迺醗釧鈷鉤鉾鍍鍔鎗鐙鐸閏韃鬱魯鴇鴛鴦鴫鵠龝

Then there are the 247 (plus 9 you already know) traditional 漢字 that were simplified during the US occupation.
乘亂亞佛來假傳僞價儉兒兩册剩劍劑劔勞勳勵勸區卷參單嚴囑圈圍圓圖團墮壓壘壞壤壯壹壻奧奬孃學寢實寫寶將對屬峽帶廢廣廳彈徑從惠惡惱愼慘應懷戀戰戲拂拔拜挾插搖擇擔據擧擴攝效敍敕數斷晝曉曾會條棧榮樂樣檢櫻權歐歡歸殘氣沒淨淺溪滯滿潛澁澤濕濟濱瀧灣燒營爐爭爲犧獨獵獻瓣畫當疊癡發盡眞碎祕祿禪禮稱稻穗穩竊竝粹絲經縣縱總繩繪繼續纖缺罐聲聽肅腦膽臟臺與舊莊莖藏藥處號螢蟲蠶蠻衞襃覺覽觀觸謠證譯譽讀變讓讚豐豫貳賣贊踐輕轉辨辭辯遞遲邊醉醫釀釋錢鎭鐵鑄鑛關陷隨險隱隸雙雜靈靜顏顯飜餘騷驅驗驛髓體髮鬪鷄鹽麥默點黨齊齋齒齡龜

Tired of only knowing Japanese? Add those 305 漢字 and you have already finished RTH1+2 (traditional)! Just like that! You know you will be reading classical Japanese. (And if it's only some 歴史漫画...)
乍乎亂于亞亦仍份佔佛你來俯倆們值假傢傳價儘兑兒兔內兩其冰别劃勞勻區卡卻參另叮吧吳吵吶吼呀呢咸哇哈哥哪哭售啊啦單嗎嘴嚴圍圓圖團堡堯增壓壞壤壯夠夭奶她妝娛媽孩學它實寫寬寶將專對尹屬巷帶幫廚廠廢廣廳彈彌彎彥很從德怎怕您惡惱慘懂應懷戀戈戰戲戶扁扭找抓拉拼拿掉揀揉搏搖摔擊擔據攤攪收效敞數斷旁晚曉曾會查桌條梳楚榮樂樓樞樣橫檔檢歐歡步歲歷歹每氣沉涉淨淺渣渴游溫滯滿漲濟瀉灣烤煌燒營爛爭爸獨產畫當瘋發皂盡眨眷眾睛瞄碌禮禾稱窗竟筷籃絕絲經綠縣縱總繼續缺聊聲聽肚胖腦腳腿臉與舉舊莊藥處虛號蟲袁裙裝褲襄襯覺觀詹諷證讀變讓豐豬賈賣賤賽趕跑跟輕轉辣辦辯迴逛逾遙邊鄉醫釋錄錢錶鐵閒關隨險雖雙雜雞靈靜靠鞋韋顆顏顯餘驗體髮麥麵麼黃黑默點黨齊

Ok, that's the merged list here. All of those together make up just 585 漢字. An overlap of 10% and only about 20% more 漢字 is pretty nice:
乍乎亂于亞亦仍份佔佛你來俐俠俯俱倆們值假傢傲傳價儘兑兒兔內兩其冰凜凰别劃勞勻匝匪區卡卦卻厩參另叮吞吧吳吵吶吼呀呟呢咸哇哈哥哪哭售啊啦喩單嗅嗎嘴嚴圍圓圖團堡堯堺塘塙塡增壓壞壤壬壯夠夭奶她妝姶娛娩婁媽孩學它宕實寫寬寶將專對尹屬岨岱巖巷帶幫庚廚廠廢廣廳弗弼彈彌彎彥很從徠德徽怎怕恣您惡惧惱惺慄慘憚憬懂應懷戀戈戊戎戟戰戲戶扁扭找抓拉拼拿捲掉掬揀揉搏搖摑摔摯摸擊擔據攤攪收效敞數斌斷旁昊晄晚曉曾會杢柁查栴桌桓梛條梳椛椴楚楳榮槇樂樓樞樟樣橙橡橫檔檢檮櫂歐歡步歲歷歹每毘氣沉沓涉涌淘淨淺渠渣渴游湘溫滯滿漑漣漲澗濟濤瀉瀦灣炒烤焰煌熙燒營爛爭爸猷獨珀珂琥璧甑甜產畫當瘋瘍瘦發皂盃盈盡眨眷眾睛睨瞄矧砧硲碌礦祁祿禮禰禱禾稟稱穰窗竟筷簞籃籠粂絕絲經綠緬緻縣縱總繡繫繼續缺羚羞聊聲聽肚胖腦腳腿臉與舉舊舛艮苒苧茹荊荏莊莱菟萊萠萱葎董蒋蔀蔣蕾藥處虛號虻蛛蜘蟬蟲蠟袁裙裝褲襄襯覺觀訃詹諧諷證讀變讓豐豬貪賈賣賤賽趕跑跟踪輕轉轍辣辦辯迴迺逛逾遙邊鄉醗醫醬釉釋釧鈷鉤鉾錄錢錶鍍鍔鎗鐙鐵鐸閏閒關隨險雖雙雜雞靈靜靠鞋韃韋頰顆顏顚顯餘驍驗體髮鬱魯鴇鴛鴦鴫鵠鷗麥麵麼黃黑默點黨齊龝

Ok, you have done those, too. You are addicted to 漢字. All those weird stories are the only reason you are awake. You breathe 漢字. You are 漢字. Let's add some more!

You know those 四字熟語? You wanna know a whole bunch of them? Add these 182 漢字 and you will be able to read over 3.000 of them! (Based on the list in another thread.)
亢佞佻俎偕傀僭儡剌剽劈匆呵咤哺唳啾喃嘖噪囂囃埒奸媚嫋嫣屓廈徊忸怙怩恍恟恪恬悄悋悍悧悸惶慇慷憊憺懃懊懼戮扈扼拈拮拱捏揄揆揣揶撈撓擲攘攫攬敲斂晰朦朧枷槿欒沱涎涛淆渙渺滂滄漓濛瀾炯煥狄狷獪瑟瓏甌痍盂眄眈瞞磊磋礙祗祠穢紆紊綽緞縟縷縹繚纒羈膠膺臂臍舳艫艱芬茫蒟蒻蕭藉藹蛉蜻蜿蝸衒褄褌襴覿詈誅諛諤謔謗譚讒豁貶贅贔贖趺跋跏跚蹂蹣躙躬輾逡遏酊酩鏤闊闢陋靡韜顰饉馮駘驕魍魎魑鰥齟齣齬

Ok, this was the last small chunk. If you are still reading this, it's time for something... bigger.

Mainland China uses a simplified 漢字. A whole bunch of them. Most of those will be pretty easy for you because the process has been pretty logical and systematic. Still, that's a whopping 1680 new 漢字 right here:
list of simplified 漢字

Or maybe you are not interested in Mainland China, but Taiwan instead. According to the governent, children (children!) know these additional 2586 漢字 (as if):
list of traditional 漢字

There's an overlap of 595 漢字 with Mainland China here, so maybe go for both:
list of simplified and traditional 漢字

Let's finish Chinese with these additional 176 common use 漢字 in the Big5 encoding, so that you feel like a Top500 supercomputer, knowing know well over 7000 漢字:
亳伋佺佾偯偺僇僎僩儅儳勗勣勰叻啗喱嘐囝圬圯圻垓堉堠塒墦奭姅媧屘屝峒崆崤嶝帟怫慝慼憮擭敔昤晅晞暍曄杗栘梂梡楛榣槭橾檠欐歙歜歟毚汍沍沔沘泖泜洎洧洹涊涪湟湩漯潠澠澦澧澴澶濩濰焜煜燮燸燾爰猓玆玥琍琛琿瑭璘璦璩瓚甽痱瘉砠硿祆穋笮箄篁篛籣紱綞綰縯縿繙羋耑脤芰芾茆蔆薨蘗褕褽覜觼訏訑詨詻誧諶譆豭豳貊贗跦踡輞輥遝邶郃鄗鄘鄞酴釗釙鈹鈽鈾鉼錡鎰阬陴雊雒韹頊頜顓騵髁鬲鯀鯈鶸

Ok, this Chinese sidequest is nice and stuff, but you were originally learning Japanese, right? So let's take the last official list there is for Japanese: 漢検 1級! And it's not that much! Only 2856 more and even the Japanese government can't think of anymore 漢字 to test you on:
list of 漢字 in the 漢検

Those together (excluding the 2 big Chinese lists) would make up 6448 漢字. If one can do RTK1 in a month, then this is something nice to do for a boring summer. Smile And then you can be really proud of yourself: only a few hundred people pass 1級 each year. That little bit of vocabulary and grammar also needed is surely only little additional work. Wink

And if you want to learn all those lists together (like here), then there is a huge overlap and you will only be learning about 8500 漢字. Which is what I am personally aiming for in the longterm, although I'll slow down once I hit the 3500 in the first merge. But do just 10 a day (which is less than 20 minutes of time, including the dictionary lookup) and you can do that in a year (accounting for the many easy simplified forms).

Anyway, that's it. It should be pretty easy to make Anki decks out of them, but you have to assign keywords and stories anyway, so my own deck is probably pretty useless for others. But if someone wants some keywords, I might add those once I get around to them.

And all of this is just a few kilobytes of memory... goes to show how inefficient neuronal networks are for storing raw data. Smile
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#2
Could you maybe list all the 常用漢字 which are in RtK3 but not RtK1 as well?
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#3
Great post! Thank you. Smile About to finish RTK3, but I don't want to go cold turkey, so... Wink
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#4
Then you get hit by a car, spend 6 months in a deep coma, recover and realise you've forgotten it all Smile

Just kidding, great work. I certainly aim to add ~500 more after RTK3 but this feels like an addiction I don't know if i'd be content with stopping.
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#5
I like the setup of this post. Really makes you think about how far one has come when they finish RTK1. However many kanji I need to read dense scholarly tomes with complete ease, that's my ultimate goal. Gorge yourself till you heave up swaths of kanji. (I think I saw that on a show or something.)
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#6
seppukuh Wrote:Tired of only knowing Japanese? Add those 305 漢字 and you have already finished RTH1+2 (traditional)! Just like that!
You know something about RTH-2 we don't?
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#7
Tobberoth Wrote:Could you maybe list all the 常用漢字 which are in RtK3 but not RtK1 as well?
At present it's a rather short list: 璽
There are 1,945 Joyo kanji and all are in RTK1 except for the one character above.

However, the Joyo kanji list is due to be revised next year. 191 characters are to be added and 5 removed.

Where to find the 191 new characters?:
RTK1: 37
RTK3: 132
Not in RTK: 22

Details here.
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#8
meolox Wrote:Then you get hit by a car, spend 6 months in a deep coma, recover and realise you've forgotten it all Smile
How.... morbid.....
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#9
haha they are finally adding dare to the list... hahaha
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#10
Katsuo Wrote:
Tobberoth Wrote:Could you maybe list all the 常用漢字 which are in RtK3 but not RtK1 as well?
At present it's a rather short list: 璽
There are 1,945 Joyo kanji and all are in RTK1 except for the one character above.

However, the Joyo kanji list is due to be revised next year. 191 characters are to be added and 5 removed.

Where to find the 191 new characters?:
RTK1: 37
RTK3: 132
Not in RTK: 22

Details here.
Oh I see, TC was using 常用漢字 incorrectly in the first post then, since the revised list will not be called 常用漢字, it's receiving a new name.

Good to know though, that means I already know all the 常用漢字.
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#11
Next step: order the (kanken1) kanji RTK-omnibus style and assign them Japanese keywords.
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#12
Jarvik7 Wrote:Next step: order the (kanken1) kanji RTK-omnibus style and assign them Japanese keywords.
I've done about 400 but I'm not intending to go through all of them.
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#13
Katsuo Wrote:I've done about 400 but I'm not intending to go through all of them.
Can you post a text file with it? I am intending to do this too.
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#14
seppukuh, none of those links for the lists you gave are working for me, they're just pages with a whole bunch of unicode. Could you check this out, most importantly the completely compiled list of 8, 500. This is something I would like to aim for.
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#15
thecite Wrote:seppukuh, none of those links for the lists you gave are working for me, they're just pages with a whole bunch of unicode. Could you check this out, most importantly the completely compiled list of 8, 500. This is something I would like to aim for.
Manually set the text encoding in your browser to unicode. There is nothing wrong with the links.
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#16
@thecite: The page you refer to has 8,593 characters, including the 3,007 in RTK (or at least their hanzi equivalents).

I made a list of the other 5,586 characters here.
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#17
mafried Wrote:
seppukuh Wrote:Tired of only knowing Japanese? Add those 305 漢字 and you have already finished RTH1+2 (traditional)! Just like that!
You know something about RTH-2 we don't?
I'm wondering that too.
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#18
I'm adding the traditional versions of kanji I already know right away. Great way to pump up those numbers without actually having to do much. Big Grin
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#19
seppukuh, Katuso, and the others: Thank you for all those infos, it's invaluable. But it was confusing for me, so if you're a noob like me, here's a summary of... what I decrypted:

RTK1: a list of 2042 kanjis. Inside, you can find 1944 jōyō kanji.
RTK2: a list of 965 additional kanjis. Inside, you can find the missing jōyō kanji 璽 which is listed in the government list, and 964 additional kanjis.
seppukuh Wrote:You can finish the 常用漢字 with these 22 and finally know all 漢字 the government considers useful
常用漢字 (jōyō kanji): the famous and official "general-purpose kanjis" of the Japanese Ministry of Education. Learn them!
But wait! Soon (supposedly in 2010), the Japanese government will expand their jōyō list with 196 brand new kanjis, but don't be scared as most of them are available in the books written by our friend James. You only need to add 22 kanjis to be prepared for the year 2010.
seppukuh Wrote:Add these 80 人名用漢字 and you can write names like a pro
jinmeiyō kanjis (人名用漢字): those kanjis are used in personal names, and you need to add those 80 kanjis to have the full list.
seppukuh Wrote:Pass the JLPT1 with only these 7 漢字
JLPT: the standardized test to evaluate your proficiency. Once again, seppukuh gives a list of 7 kanjis to reach the Level 1 (the highest level, you're awesome!)
seppukuh Wrote:Only 113 more and you can pass 漢検 level 1.5! Woohoo!
And finally, 漢検. It seems to be the kanji kentei, the Japanese Kanji Aptitude Test (I hope I'm not wrong on this one...) If you add the 113 kanjis mentioned by seppukuh, you'll reach the "Level semi-1" (which is almost the highest level of the test, but you'll still need 6000 kanjis for the Level 1, and that's too difficult for me).

The rest is... too advanced for me and I guess I won't go any further. Am I wrong somewhere? At least, thank your for reading my post.
Edited: 2009-11-04, 4:15 am
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#20
How overwhelming Tongue But I'm finally kind of starting to get some Kanji lust again after burning out trying to finish the last 300 or so of RTK1 in May...
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#21
mypapa12 Wrote:常用漢字 (jōyō kanji): the famous and official "general-purpose kanjis" of the Japanese Ministry of Education. Learn them!
But wait! Soon (supposedly in 2010), the Japanese government will expand their jōyō list with 196 (or 191 according to Katsuo???)
Interesting. All the sources I've seen previously have the same list of 191 additional kanji (including the Japanese version of the Wikipedia page linked to above).

But the 191 new Joyo kanji list is meant to be provisional, and the English Wikipedia article you linked to is very recent – it says, "As of 23 October 2009...". So maybe the list has been revised.

Incidentally the 196 list includes 9 kanji not on the 191 list (柿哺楷睦釜錮賂毀勾), and drops 4 which were on it (哨聘諜憚). It would make sense because, to me at least, those nine are a lot more familiar than the other four.

Edit: Checking around, the above information is correct. The Joyo Kanji revision committee announced the above changes to its provisional lists on 23rd October 2009.
Links: Asahi Shinbun; Kanji Jiten; and in English CosCom.
Edited: 2009-11-04, 12:52 am
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#22
Katsuo, thank you for the precision. I edited my message according to what you said.
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#23
mypapa12 Wrote:Katsuo, thank you for the precision. I edited my message according to what you said.
One other small change with the new (provisional) list of 196 additional Joyo kanji is that there will be 24 characters not in RTK rather than 22. Details.
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#24
more kanji? Hmmm i've always wanted to go past 3007. I might as well do that b/c i'm going to learn mandarin after japanese anyways. And having the benefit of knowing 6000+ kanji would be great!
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#25
Joyo kanji rant.

This is important for actually living in Japan: RTK 1 was written using a list which excludes a lot (many? most? all?) of the name-exclusive kanji that are in every Japanese dictionary, even those that exclude non-joyo kanji.

If you know RTK1, you are missing a basic function in day to day life, and that is the ability to read and write average people's names.

Basically, RTK1, as valuable as it is for learning is affected greatly by the fact that Heisig put together the RTK1 list before he was literate. So he only listed Joyo, and not the name kanji. Name Kanji also have a legal status. Moreover, they have a function in day to day life, unlike many Joyo Kanji, which are protected for historical/cultural rather than functional reasons. RTK3 is affected by the fact that Heisig studies Buddhism, and so is skewed towards Kanji he would use, which are not used outside of classical Buddhist texts. And it leaves out many kanji that you see every day on television (off the top of my head zeitaku no zei jumps out) even though they are not Joyo.

The joyo lists are silly, and no one in Japan actually gives a damn about them, other than the people putting the lists together. College entrance exams ignore them, so students who want to get into college ignore Joyo Kanji too. it would be far better to extend the character list to a large number to regularize forms rather than restricting the list to a subset of what literate people actually use. It makes the "not in the joyo list" Kanji very difficult to benkyou shite oku. The government, which is normally in the list of setting standards as it does it all other standards and measures related subjects, has really dropped the ball on this, and is stuck in the mindset that started the whole toyo/joyo kanji list thing. They badly need to read the literature of linguistics to get out of the normative, and return to the descriptive. Teach what people use.

As foreigners we are stuck, because we are told by the Japanese Government that knowing these Kanji makes us literate. But then we turn on the TV, and within five minutes we see completely new characters not on the list.

As long as the word for something as basic as "who" is not taught as a standard (in this case meaning Joyo) Kanji, the list is actually counter productive: it is a weapon to keep people from literacy, not enable them to reach it.
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